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Post by mrholmes on Dec 16, 2014 22:01:22 GMT -6
It is a few years ago that my room was treated. With some base notes there is still an audible difference between L R but it also matters on the length of the note (perception). I was about to buy an expensive EQ because I still use my small mixing board. Suddenly it came to my mind that I can monitor two input objects in Logic with linear phase Eq on it for L/R.
All I can say it works and the small base nulls on the R MONITOR are gone.  |
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Post by jeromemason on Dec 16, 2014 22:14:48 GMT -6
Check out Dirac, it not only smoothes out what issues remain in the room, it also adjust's the impulse of each speaker to align them perfectly.
It's $500, but it's the best $500 I've ever spent. There is also a digital eq module you can buy that has the software built in, this allows you to run a digital output from your final mix, apply the impulse/eq correction and output an analog signal to your amps.
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Post by mrholmes on Dec 16, 2014 22:23:16 GMT -6
Check out Dirac, it not only smoothes out what issues remain in the room, it also adjust's the impulse of each speaker to align them perfectly. It's $500, but it's the best $500 I've ever spent. There is also a digital eq module you can buy that has the software built in, this allows you to run a digital output from your final mix, apply the impulse/eq correction and output an analog signal to your amps. Is not that the same what Room EQ Wizzard does for free? |
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Post by jeromemason on Dec 16, 2014 22:32:56 GMT -6
REW just analyzes it and shows you nulls. This analyzes it and corrects it. It's done digitally so there are no artifacts. You can try it out for free. It's called Dirac Live.
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Post by mrholmes on Dec 16, 2014 22:38:03 GMT -6
REW just analyzes it and shows you nulls. This analyzes it and corrects it. It's done digitally so there are no artifacts. You can try it out for free. It's called Dirac Live. REW can also be used as EQ as far as I know. If I can implement it into my input audio stream I will try Diarc…. Thanks for pointing me to it. |
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Post by jeromemason on Dec 16, 2014 23:49:38 GMT -6
In REW you can select it to control an external EQ, but it has to be one listed in the options and they are pretty expensive and also analog.
Good luck!
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Post by jimwilliams on Dec 17, 2014 10:32:31 GMT -6
Room symetry is your friend.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Dec 17, 2014 11:55:02 GMT -6
Even Phase acurrate EQ can't cure most room problems,
The EQ is the same on the off axis and on axis response of your monitors, which are quite often surprisingly different. Also check the true phase response of even time aligned systems you will be shocked!
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Post by mrholmes on Dec 21, 2014 20:36:08 GMT -6
Even Phase acurrate EQ can't cure most room problems, The EQ is the same on the off axis and on axis response of your monitors, which are quite often surprisingly different. Also check the true phase response of even time aligned systems you will be shocked! We do not speak about a big thing. 99% is done in room treatment, but there is this small problem left. And we guess it the room itself, a mass problem. Left window right no widow. Its not a cure I know, but it seems to be the best compromise instead of working without any day light. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 21, 2014 21:32:08 GMT -6
No shit? I tried out the IK Room Correction thing once and thought it actually degraded my sound. So what is this thing - you put it on the master channel as the last insert or something?
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Post by mrholmes on Dec 22, 2014 4:35:41 GMT -6
No shit? I tried out the IK Room Correction thing once and thought it actually degraded my sound. So what is this thing - you put it on the master channel as the last insert or something? Can confirm this too. We used a friends license to try it. My subtle eq shaping is totally fine against the ARC System...and question wasnt it in 80s when great studios helped the romm a little with eq on the 2 bus? |
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Post by jimwilliams on Dec 22, 2014 10:13:17 GMT -6
Many did, the popular hardware was a White 1/6 octave EQ with rotary pots. There were several "room tuners" in the LA area, some better than others.
The goal was to smooth out the soffet mounted mains speakers, commonly JBL4435's or similar. Large control rooms could produce large resonances, before room treatments were well explored.
Since this was a frequency fix for a timing problem the sweet spot was the mixer's chair, preferably bolted down so it wouldn't move. The mixers head needed to be at the same level as the measurement mic, turning your head 2 inches would throw the entire thing out.
The room EQ was NEVER applied to the mix outputs, only the control room amps and the mains speakers.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Dec 22, 2014 10:55:44 GMT -6
The fundamental problem with room eq. is that we mostly hear the room and the speakers separately. Eq. can only correct the anechoic response of the speaker. Misguided attempts to "correct" the room using eq. can only compound the colorations.
We went down that path in the 1970s and the result was most people finding themselves getting better mixes using NS-10s! It's one of those things that sounds like a good idea until you understand how hearing works.
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Post by mrholmes on Dec 26, 2014 21:36:44 GMT -6
The fundamental problem with room eq. is that we mostly hear the room and the speakers separately. Eq. can only correct the anechoic response of the speaker. Misguided attempts to "correct" the room using eq. can only compound the colorations. We went down that path in the 1970s and the result was most people finding themselves getting better mixes using NS-10s! It's one of those things that sounds like a good idea until you understand how hearing works. Interesting advise…. and funny. I have as second pair two of these Auratone Clones. www.musicstore.de/de_DE/EUR/art-REC0008525-000And for fun I mixed on them and I was surprised that the mix also sounds good on the Genelecs. I have no answer why because the Behritones are limited in f-response….. |
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Dec 27, 2014 10:02:19 GMT -6
What has been funny is that as far as the folks at B&K knew, we were the first to ever attempt control room "tuning" at Motown during the mid '60s. When we found their measurement mike sounded nothing like the source through speakers that had just been tuned with it, we contacted them to ask what we had done wrong. The answer from the microphone's designer was that you could only accurately measure a speaker in an anechoic chamber! He suggested trying a smaller diaphragm mike to counter diffraction issues but was still very skeptical. Richard Heiser, a JPL engineer who was an audio hobbyist debunked a lot of common room measurement theories during the '70s but since his death a lot of the early '70s nonsense has reared its head again in commercial products.
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 27, 2014 10:09:45 GMT -6
I ain't no scientist...math makes my head hurt...but I tried that IK Room Response EQ, with the measuring mic and all that jazz. When I applied the resulting EQ measurement on my 2 buss, it sounded like a mack truck had backed into my listening position. The bottom end was loud as shit...un-naturally loud...the whole thing just didn't work for me.
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Post by mrholmes on Dec 28, 2014 2:15:48 GMT -6
What has been funny is that as far as the folks at B&K knew, we were the first to ever attempt control room "tuning" at Motown during the mid '60s. When we found their measurement mike sounded nothing like the source through speakers that had just been tuned with it, we contacted them to ask what we had done wrong. The answer from the microphone's designer was that you could only accurately measure a speaker in an anechoic chamber! He suggested trying a smaller diaphragm mike to counter diffraction issues but was still very skeptical. Richard Heiser, a JPL engineer who was an audio hobbyist debunked a lot of common room measurement theories during the '70s but since his death a lot of the early '70s nonsense has reared its head again in commercial products. Good to have you here BOB!! |
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