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Post by swurveman on Dec 13, 2014 10:43:12 GMT -6
I had a guy in the studio this week who has the PM8. I asked him about it. So, I thought I'd post a mix of his where he used the PM8's transformer coupled output for anybody who might be interested. The second track is from the same band without the PM8.
With the PM8
Without the PM8
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 13, 2014 12:01:58 GMT -6
Hmm not knowing if same tracking signal chains were used and the different main guitars, it seems to me the first is more full bodied: more resolution something ?  The second certainly well recorded ect and around the strat difference the second sounded thinner or less resolution Drum hits sounded 2 d in first 3d. If i hadn't heard them back to back I would have thought sounded very clear and fine Interesting thx ! But whats your sense listening to the actual session or r u going to let is hem and ha a bit ? |
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Post by swurveman on Dec 13, 2014 15:25:40 GMT -6
Hmm not knowing if same tracking signal chains were used and the different main guitars, it seems to me the first is more full bodied: more resolution something ? The second certainly well recorded ect and around the strat difference the second sounded thinner or less resolution Drum hits sounded 2 d in first 3d. If i hadn't heard them back to back I would have thought sounded very clear and fine Interesting thx ! But whats your sense listening to the actual session or r u going to let is hem and ha a bit ? Hey kcatthedog. I wasn't at the actual session. So, I can't help you there. The guy is an engineer from the UK who is a friend of my studio partner and was in town. I have not taken summing mixers seriously and this one is not particularly expensive, well known or hyped a lot. So, I was impressed and surprised with how much better I thought the first song sounded than the second to my ears. He said he uses the PM8 mostly for dense guitar band songs which is what I mostly do. So, since there are often gear threads where there is never an example of how the product sounds, I did the best I could do by posting two songs from the same band recorded and mixed by the same guy. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 13, 2014 17:44:55 GMT -6
ya fair enough and no criticism intended
I used to have a dbox so could compare its non summed to summed sounds instantaneously
so I was looking for something like that when i was listening hard to find the right adjective: gelled, glue, presence, etc, but I felt the first example had something the second didn't, and of course the second mix was very good in its own right.
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Post by yotonic on Dec 13, 2014 17:51:48 GMT -6
Millennium reminds me of the Arctic Monkeys a bit, sounds good. The second track sounds the way it should, it's properly produced for more of that Smiths aesthetic they are tapping into.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2014 21:33:47 GMT -6
Seemed like the first one had more depth and space.
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Post by jeromemason on Dec 13, 2014 23:14:18 GMT -6
I use a PM8, have for about 3 years now and I love it. You can get a lot of good stuff out of it because not only does it have trannies on the outputs, but also has them on every input. In my experience with it there is definitely a sweet spot between the I/O stages. If you hit the front end to hard it will shave some of your transients, if you hit the back end to hard and it will put too much saturation on your lowend.
So, after a ton of trial and error I found that the best way to group your stems is like this
1 - Vocal (furthest from PSU)
2 - Bass/Kick (feels more centered and fat, and also sort of molds the two together well)
3/4 - Drums
5/6 - Instruments
7/8 - EFX/BGVS
I wouldn't say there is noise form the PSU, but just because I know it's there I keep my most important parts furthest from it. I've tried several passive summing mixers and this one is my favorite because it allows you to color the hell out of your mix just by sending more level. If you want it clean clean, just pull back and then pull your make up gain on your pre's up. I use VP28's after it and I crank the channel faders all the way and keep in the inputs at unity. After a lot of trial and error that has been the sweetest and fatest sound I've gotten.
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Post by swurveman on Dec 14, 2014 8:57:10 GMT -6
I use a PM8, have for about 3 years now and I love it. You can get a lot of good stuff out of it because not only does it have trannies on the outputs, but also has them on every input. In my experience with it there is definitely a sweet spot between the I/O stages. If you hit the front end to hard it will shave some of your transients, if you hit the back end to hard and it will put too much saturation on your lowend. So, after a ton of trial and error I found that the best way to group your stems is like this 1 - Vocal (furthest from PSU) 2 - Bass/Kick (feels more centered and fat, and also sort of molds the two together well) 3/4 - Drums 5/6 - Instruments 7/8 - EFX/BGVS I wouldn't say there is noise form the PSU, but just because I know it's there I keep my most important parts furthest from it. I've tried several passive summing mixers and this one is my favorite because it allows you to color the hell out of your mix just by sending more level. If you want it clean clean, just pull back and then pull your make up gain on your pre's up. I use VP28's after it and I crank the channel faders all the way and keep in the inputs at unity. After a lot of trial and error that has been the sweetest and fatest sound I've gotten. Thanks for your experience/methods Jerome. I've seen them used as low as $500.00. So, I may take the plunge. |
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Post by jeromemason on Dec 14, 2014 10:40:15 GMT -6
Well you can piggy back them, even the first version (which I have) can be made into 16 chan. $500 for this would be a very good investment. I paid over $900 for mine, but it was well worth it. I actually wasn't sure about it for a long time, I was frustrated with it because I could mix through it, and then put that same mix out through just Protools and it would have more lowend and such, but after a while what I figured out was when I listened to commercial mixes, their lowend was heavier than mine, but it had the same tightness to it, what was happening, I was hitting the inputs too hard. So if you buy one just know you've got to sort of seesaw back and forth until you get the headroom figured out on it, and do like me and put little dots of tape on each knob and leave it. Also, the orientation of the stems was just as important, I've thought about even trying to strip it further and make 3/4 Snare/Kick so that Vocal, Bass, Kick and Snare all are panned center and then 2 channels of stereo for drums and then everything else.
Good luck!
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Post by popmann on Dec 14, 2014 14:47:00 GMT -6
If you asked me blindly which of these was analog summed, given my experience I'd have picked the one with better imaging and a more tight but dynamic low end. With is the second one. Sounds to me like the first one has the reverb pushed up say 5db....and the drum transients lopped off nearly the same amount. Likely both down by the same limiter. Or maybe BY the BLA....
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Post by swurveman on Dec 14, 2014 15:55:46 GMT -6
Well you can piggy back them, even the first version (which I have) can be made into 16 chan. $500 for this would be a very good investment. I paid over $900 for mine, but it was well worth it. I actually wasn't sure about it for a long time, I was frustrated with it because I could mix through it, and then put that same mix out through just Protools and it would have more lowend and such, but after a while what I figured out was when I listened to commercial mixes, their lowend was heavier than mine, but it had the same tightness to it, what was happening, I was hitting the inputs too hard. So if you buy one just know you've got to sort of seesaw back and forth until you get the headroom figured out on it, and do like me and put little dots of tape on each knob and leave it. Also, the orientation of the stems was just as important, I've thought about even trying to strip it further and make 3/4 Snare/Kick so that Vocal, Bass, Kick and Snare all are panned center and then 2 channels of stereo for drums and then everything else. Good luck! Thanks again for more detail! |
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