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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 6, 2014 12:58:55 GMT -6
So - drbill tell us about your product...Can you explain where and how you would use it? I took the liberty of googling some info...can't remember where this came from though A new class of analog hardware designed to answer the age-old digital question: "Where's the Mojo?" Louder Than Liftoff is proud to introduce Silver Bullet - a unique collaborative effort between Louder Than Liftoff and industry veteran drBill. The Silver Bullet is the culmination of drBill's Tone-Amp™ experimentations and offers a unique and innovative way of injecting a dose of "discrete analog mojo" directly into your digital world, or your IC-based console workflow. This labor of love offers a first-of-its-kind analog topology including Mix Processor, EQ, Filters and Mic Preamps, all integrated into an elegant, easily tweakable implementation of drBill's "Mojo” style of hybrid workflow. The Silver Bullet is very effective at introducing desirable analog artifacts (i.e. "Mojo") into an ITB digital workflow - without expensive and cumbersome summing, patch bays or never-ending chains of emulation plugins. “I was always wishing for my DAW to sound as good as my console, however emulation plugins always left a bad taste in my mouth, and summing boxes slowed down my workflow. Let’s face it - the modern DAW lacks musical soul. So we created the Silver Bullet to capture the essence of what mixing through a console brings to the sound”, comments Brad McGowan, lead designer for the Silver Bullet. "As an added bonus, we found it works equally well on IC-based analog consoles too, essentially providing a sonic makeover for those looking to change things up a bit. Throw in the stereo mic preamp with “A” and “N” Mojo modes and you have a hell of a versatile box,” stated McGowan. "The Bullet has brought such elegance, adjustability and overall tone management into my hybrid workflow that's it revolutionized the way I mix and produce" stated drBill. "Working with Louder Than Liftoff has been a wonderful experience, and our collaboration has produced a product that I could only have dreamed of when I first started down this path…" Some of Silver Bullet's highlights: Innovative Tone-Amp™ "A" and "N" circuit topologies inspired by classic American and British consoles capable of stereo widening, “3D”-izing, saturation and other desirable artifacts - all in the analog domain Stereo signal path throughout with single set of detented and easy recallable controls Visually stunning 20-segment stereo high resolution output meter Mojo LEDs provide visual feedback of signal level intensity Suite of tone shaping features designed specifically for mix management and broad stroke tone sculpting * Baxandall Tone EQ: bass - 50 or 100 Hz, treble - 5k or 10k, +/-9 dB boost/cut * Tight: 18 dB/oct subsonic high pass filter for tightening bottom end and increasing low frequency headroom * Air: subtle rising high frequency boost Mix and Tracking Modes allows both Mix processing and Overdub / Tracking processing without any re-patching of cables or need for patch bays * Connect after your mic preamp, keyboard, sampler, etc. * Bounce digitally recorded tracks and stems Mic Modes allow Silver Bullet to function as a fully featured stereo microphone preamplifier with Polarity Reverse and 48V phantom power Choose your Mojo flavor by selecting “A” or “N” sonics or both! Transformers by Ed Anderson and Cinemag RED FIVE-20 discrete op amps designed by Louder Than Liftoff, conforming to standard 2520 footprint Class-A biased op amps All circuit components chosen by ear for maximum Mojo.
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Post by drbill on Dec 6, 2014 15:31:19 GMT -6
So - drbill tell us about your product...Can you explain where and how you would use it? Sure. Busy day but here's a picture and basic description to kick things off. I'll add to things later and be happy to answer questions. I'll just say at the outset that this unit culminates about 8 years of "experimentation" of putting "stuff" on my DAW mix bus in non-traditional and fun ways, and on the front end of my DAW when recording in an effort to be able to track and mix in my DAW as well as I could on a high end console. It helps me get the "mojo" that I got when using a console and mixing traditionally (which I - and so many of us - can no longer do). It was a long process, but I'm happy with what Brad and I came up with. The Silver Bullet is designed to be : - the "front end" of your DAW (either as a pre during recording, or AFTER your pre as a complex and versatile colorizer), - the "mid-end" - is that a word? - (ie: for use going outside the DAW with sample instruments, softsynths, or thin, lifeless tracks during your production phase of things) - the "back end" - as a 2Bus/Mix bus processor that keeps your dynamic range, but gets your mixes to gel faster, get louder without a compressor, and a finishing BAX style EQ - not to mention KILLER metering which used to be de-facto standard, but these days seems to be missing on 99% of modern products. Basically, it's your analog DAW entrance and exit to the outside world (but not in an AD/DA sense) - designed to bring back the analog goodness that many (if not most) DAW setups are missing. It is the answer to the question that's been nagging me since having to produce inside a DAW without a console. It suggests an elegant workflow that is perhaps it's most desirable feature. What it does CAN be accomplished with other gear, but with previous workflows, I found myself "setting it and forgetting it" with the other pieces I was using, thus robbing myself of the creative workflow that I was seeking. The SB gives that back to me, and I'm DIGGING IT!!!! Experimentation and the creative joy it brings is key for me. Also, just to mix things up, Brad and I designed it to be used on console master inserts (for our D&R's) as well to bring more of the API or Neve flavor to transparent-ish IC based consoles -- so when Tony gets tired of his uber clean JW soundcraft, he can insert some high end IRON (and lots of it) into his Mix bus. Also interesting to note : learning to use the SB is like getting a masters degree in Gain Staging. It's simple and easy to use, but difficult to screw up. It will open up your eyes to gain staging, how it affects your tonal pallet, and how important it was/is to engineers who have learned how to work a console's sweet spot to get what they want out of it.... More later... Attachments:
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Post by jcoutu1 on Dec 6, 2014 15:52:08 GMT -6
Care to talk a bit about the preamp topologies? Not clones of API or Neve right? How are you getting this sort of tone? Do Ed Anderson or Cinemag have transformers similar to Carnhill?
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Post by drbill on Dec 6, 2014 16:01:52 GMT -6
Brad can speak to the specifics and tweaky aspects of the tone amp circuitry more than I can, but though these are not "clones", they are VERY close to what you would expect from a vintage API or 80 series Neve console, and sound accordingly.
The circuitry is unique and proprietary with a tip of the hat to the classic circuits, but the sound is absolutely traditional - and what you would expect. With a few cool twists. The ability to cascade between makes things even more fun.
At this stage we have chosen an Ed Anderson transformers for the Neve flavor over Carnhill. It was not a cost consideration, but a tone consideration. We tried close to a dozen Neve candidates, and several had some cool things going on, but the Carnhills and Andersons were the final contenders - and yes, they are quite similar, but with the Andersons having a little "something extra" that we liked in this application. I still adore that carnhills, and we have gone back and forth several times, but at this point, I believe we're sticking with the Andersons.
The Cinemags are in the API side of the unit, and we chose a version that was not the standard fare over the normal suspects. This because our choice brings more "wide-ness" and "3D-ness" to the mix over the normal candidate. It was actually quite a cool accident. I'm not sure if Cinemag makes a Neve clone transformer or not. If they do, we tested it, but it didn't make it to the end.... Hope that answers your question. If not, fire back. Testing transformers took a month+ for this unit. And I'm glad it's over. LOL
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Post by jcoutu1 on Dec 6, 2014 16:28:42 GMT -6
Brad can speak to the specifics and tweaky aspects of the tone amp circuitry more than I can, but though these are not "clones", they are VERY close to what you would expect from a vintage API or 80 series Neve console, and sound accordingly. The circuitry is unique and proprietary with a tip of the hat to the classic circuits, but the sound is absolutely traditional - and what you would expect. With a few cool twists. The ability to cascade between makes things even more fun. At this stage we have chosen an Ed Anderson transformers for the Neve flavor over Carnhill. It was not a cost consideration, but a tone consideration. We tried close to a dozen Neve candidates, and several had some cool things going on, but the Carnhills and Andersons were the final contenders - and yes, they are quite similar, but with the Andersons having a little "something extra" that we liked in this application. I still adore that carnhills, and we have gone back and forth several times, but at this point, I believe we're sticking with the Andersons. The Cinemags are in the API side of the unit, and we chose a version that was not the standard fare over the normal suspects. This because our choice brings more "wide-ness" and "3D-ness" to the mix over the normal candidate. It was actually quite a cool accident. I'm not sure if Cinemag makes a Neve clone transformer or not. If they do, we tested it, but it didn't make it to the end.... Hope that answers your question. If not, fire back. Testing transformers took a month+ for this unit. And I'm glad it's over. LOL Still no pricing details either yet I assume? Ship dates? I guess I haven't seen any Void Corp. communication either. I like the idea of using something like this on the front end. Versatility at your fingertips. I've got a few color pieces on my busses already though, so it might be overkill there for me.
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Post by drbill on Dec 6, 2014 16:38:31 GMT -6
Still no pricing details either yet I assume? Ship dates? I guess I haven't seen any Void Corp. communication either. I like the idea of using something like this on the front end. Versatility at your fingertips. I've got a few color pieces on my busses already though, so it might be overkill there for me. Pricing is yet to be firmed up, but Brad is shooting for $2500 or less hopefully. It's a very expensive box to build, but he's committed to keeping it affordable. I believe I have heard rumour of a Void Corp Pre-Buy for early-adopters, but we're working right now on tidying up some details and making things even better than they were at AES. Again, the idea of the SB is to work the gain stages, so that "color" becomes a malleable and interactive aspect of your 2 buss and tracking work flow. You may find it complementary to your 2 buss workflow.
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Post by tonycamphd on Dec 6, 2014 16:42:32 GMT -6
i actually talked to brad today, he used to own a Soundcraft Delta with the JW mods, i was picking his brain for some info(but i think he was washing pots and pans at the time lol), coolest of guys for sure. As far as the silver bullet is concerned, I think Bill's/Brad's concept is solid as hell, i spent just enough time with it at AES to figure out that i wanted to spend more time with it, it seems a no brainer planted on the 2 buss if you are an ITB guy. It struck me as a high end swiss army knife for fending off attacks of digititus, exactly the kind of filtering/eq you want to use on the 2 or for tracking, and on demand neve/api pre's, it's a very versatile/powerful tool in one package. I know that Brad has a passion for this stuff, it shows in his enthusiasm, this was clear to me talking to him at AES, and re affirmed as recently as today, his goals are solely about creating superb audio tools, I hope he doesn't mind me saying this, but he seems annoyed with the whole "and then there's the business side" thing. He's all about the gear.
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Post by unit7 on Dec 6, 2014 19:43:05 GMT -6
As far as the silver bullet is concerned, I think Bill's/Brad's concept is solid as hell, i spent just enough time with it at AES to figure out that i wanted to spend more time with it, it seems a no brainer planted on the 2 buss if you are an ITB guy. +1. Super smart. I'll def recommend this to all ITB people who is looking for a good pre and some analog processing for their mixes.
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Post by drbill on Dec 8, 2014 11:52:57 GMT -6
Thanks for the kind words guys. Honestly, its a new way of working, and although I think it's great and intuitive, there were some people that had a hard time "getting it" at AES, but IMO it's a great solution for guys working ITB that want/need to get some analog vibe back into their productions and mixes. The unit essentially has 3 sets of inputs, two sets of outputs as well as a pair of inserts. Mic and Main Line in share one set of combo inputs. There is a second set of input that we call "Tracking" inputs. Also main (mix) outputs and tracking outputs. There are a lot of different ways to configure the Silver Bullet, but here's the way I tend to work.... (BTW, Brad uses it in a completely different way...so....go figure) I work fast, and I'm generally "mixing" from the first note I lay down, so I keep the Silver Bullet in "Mix" mode until it's needed elsewhere. It allows me to do what I need with ONE unit what I would traditionally need two units to do. With this in mind, I have what Brad considers to be a fairly complex work flow / bussing system with the SB on mix bus until I need it on an individual track - when I switch it into tracking mode and bus out of PT to it. Once set up and wired in, it's super simple. There is only one switch on the SB, and one output change in PT - I can send any INDIVIDUAL track to the SB for a little analog beefing up, and one assignment and front panel switch back and I'm monitoring my mix thru the SB again. It's elegant, fast, intuitive and it sounds great and does what I need - with no cable swapping or patch bays involved. Conversely, I can also feed it directly from synths or other outboard press or if I get my patch bay involved. Brad likes to use it differently. He configures it as the "front end" to his DAW or other recording device - running mics or external pre's thru it and going to the DAW. Everything goes thru the SB before entering digital land. Some people mentioned that it would sit on their mix bus inserts, and never move with no switches changed once they found their personal "sweet spot". So....lots of ideas, lots of options, lots of uses. How would YOU use it? I'm curious to know.
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Post by unit7 on Dec 8, 2014 13:30:37 GMT -6
there were some people that had a hard time "getting it" at AES, That surprises me. Maybe it's because people associates you with OTB mixing? Not that it wouldn't be great in an OTB setup, but I would have thought that except for total noobs and also very well equipped (as in xformer metal) studios, the rest - which are a LOT - would 'get' this big time. All the talk about which pre to get and also 2 bus analog processing. For the guy who has got the taste for a touch of analog, this and a nice stereo compressor, both for tracking and mixing, would get them a looong way imo. Again, brilliant concept.
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Post by drbill on Dec 8, 2014 13:55:59 GMT -6
Thanks Paul. As far as "get it" I meant not that they didn't dig the concept of injecting some analog into their digital world, but that they really couldn't wrap their minds around the routing, how it hooked up, where it should be used, etc..
I think there are a TON of guys just in or barely out of school that have never worked on a console, and maybe the only hardware they have ever owned is their interface and their computer. They were trying to wrap their minds around "what it was" and "how to interface it". Seemed simple to me, but......
That's cool though. Hopefully this will introduce them to analog gear, gain staging and the beauty of a hybrid setup that takes advantage of the best of both worlds.
And it does play cool in the analog / console world as well. Brings a lot of options to the table that are not normally available with one console.
Cheers,
bp
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Post by jcoutu1 on Dec 8, 2014 14:18:19 GMT -6
The unit essentially has 3 sets of inputs, two sets of outputs as well as a pair of inserts. Mic and Main Line in share one set of combo inputs. There is a second set of input that we call "Tracking" inputs. Also main (mix) outputs and tracking outputs. There are a lot of different ways to configure the Silver Bullet, but here's the way I tend to work.... (BTW, Brad uses it in a completely different way...so....go figure) I'm a little confused about the inputs. I only see the need for a pair of XLR inputs for mics and a pair of TRS line inputs for the lines. Tracking mode selects mic inputs and mixing mode switches over to the line inputs. This way, I could have my XLR patchbay normalled to the XLR inputs and my other patchbay wired to the line inputs. The combo jack makes this not possible. What is the other set of inputs?
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Post by drbill on Dec 8, 2014 14:25:20 GMT -6
jcoutu1 - Sorry - I spoke wrong. I had it backwards in my mind. Mic ins are dedicated XLR's for mics only. The mix and tracking ins are combo XLR/TRS jacks. The outputs are on XLR's and the inserts on TRS ala console inserts.
The input/output selection is Mix (XLR/TRS in - XLR out), Tracking (XLR/TRS in - XLR out), Mic and Mic+ (Dedicated mic XLR in)
This allows you to have mics attached, and outboard setup attached (synths, line level inputs, etc.) and a mix path. Hope that makes sense.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Dec 8, 2014 14:31:09 GMT -6
jcoutu1 - Sorry - I spoke wrong. I had it backwards in my mind. Mic ins are dedicated XLR's for mics only. The mix and tracking ins are combo XLR/TRS jacks. The outputs are on XLR's and the inserts on TRS ala console inserts. The input/output selection is Mix (XLR/TRS in - XLR out), Tracking (XLR/TRS in - XLR out), Mic and Mic+ (Dedicated mic XLR) This allows you to have mics attached, and outboard setup attached (synths, line level inputs, etc.) and a mix path. Hope that makes sense. Perfect. Having dedicated seperate Mic and Line Inputs keeps things tidy. I wish all gear was set up this way.
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Post by drbill on Dec 8, 2014 14:41:17 GMT -6
Perfect. Having dedicated seperate Mic and Line Inputs keeps things tidy. I wish all gear was set up this way. <<thumbsup>> Brad and I toiled over the workflow aspects for quite awhile. I think we got it all covered, but if you have any thoughts, it's not too late yet.... heh heh The "real estate" both front and back is pretty well spoken for though. We're considering adding some PCB jumpers for a couple of things I think.
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Post by LesC on Dec 8, 2014 15:00:01 GMT -6
jcoutu1 - Sorry - I spoke wrong. I had it backwards in my mind. Mic ins are dedicated XLR's for mics only. The mix and tracking ins are combo XLR/TRS jacks. The outputs are on XLR's and the inserts on TRS ala console inserts. The input/output selection is Mix (XLR/TRS in - XLR out), Tracking (XLR/TRS in - XLR out), Mic and Mic+ (Dedicated mic XLR in) This allows you to have mics attached, and outboard setup attached (synths, line level inputs, etc.) and a mix path. Hope that makes sense. I'm extra thick today, would you please elaborate on the difference between Mic and Mic+? Also, any possibility of a fairly good quality instrument-in? Or 2 for keyboards?
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Post by jcoutu1 on Dec 8, 2014 15:09:31 GMT -6
Perfect. Having dedicated seperate Mic and Line Inputs keeps things tidy. I wish all gear was set up this way. <<thumbsup>> Brad and I toiled over the workflow aspects for quite awhile. I think we got it all covered, but if you have any thoughts, it's not too late yet.... heh heh The "real estate" both front and back is pretty well spoken for though. We're considering adding some PCB jumpers for a couple of things I think. I'm also curious about the meter. I see that there is a nice looking meter there, but no switch to control it (unless I'm missing it). Is it metering input or output? It would be cool if it's switchable...or maybe it switches when you switch modes?
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Post by BradM on Dec 8, 2014 15:16:15 GMT -6
Thanks for the kind words guys. Honestly, its a new way of working, and although I think it's great and intuitive, there were some people that had a hard time "getting it" at AES, but IMO it's a great solution for guys working ITB that want/need to get some analog vibe back into their productions and mixes. Who were those people? I didn't talk to a single one of them. I'm sick with the flu right now. As soon as I can manage some coherent thoughts I promise to join this conversation. I know there are some questions to address. Thanks for making this thread, John. Back to feeling like death, Brad
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Post by BradM on Dec 8, 2014 15:38:25 GMT -6
I'm extra thick today, would you please elaborate on the difference between Mic and Mic+? Also, any possibility of a fairly good quality instrument-in? Or 2 for keyboards? Mic+ basically has more gain for lower output sources and things like ribbon mics. It's a gain boost basically. Mic mode gives you enough headroom to amplifier loud things like condenser mics on drums. But for something like a R121 on a fingerpicked acoustic you'll definitely want Mic+ for the extra gain boost. The Tracking inputs have combo jacks which allow you to plug in a synth or line level input. I purposefully didn't put a DI on this design because I feel that there are awesome DI's out there like the REDDI or Tonecraft 363 or even the DI's on Jeff's VP28's that can be used as a front end to the Silver Bullet. I didn't want this to be some kind of jack of all trades / master of none kind of box and have the cost be driven up without very good reason. Plus--I'm personally not a huge user of DI's and wish that most of my mic pres didn't have them so I didn't have to look at the gaping hole in the front of faceplate. The flu might be making me cranky I think. Brad
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Post by BradM on Dec 8, 2014 15:44:33 GMT -6
I'm also curious about the meter. I see that there is a nice looking meter there, but no switch to control it (unless I'm missing it). Is it metering input or output? It would be cool if it's switchable...or maybe it switches when you switch modes? I haven't quite figured out how to do multiple quotes in one reply so sorry for all the individual posts. The meter is really bitchin', I won't lie. It's always monitoring the output of the processed signal path. When in Bypass (Trk/Byp...hard relay bypass) the meter shows no signal. That visually indicates that you are in actually in bypass...which is kind of hard to miss. It's like when you bypass a compressor and the gain reduction meter stops showing movement. I was thinking of putting a jumper inside the unit to allow it to monitor input signal, but I'm not sure if that really makes any sense. Brad
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Post by drbill on Dec 8, 2014 15:47:38 GMT -6
jcoutu1 - Sorry - I spoke wrong. I had it backwards in my mind. Mic ins are dedicated XLR's for mics only. The mix and tracking ins are combo XLR/TRS jacks. The outputs are on XLR's and the inserts on TRS ala console inserts. The input/output selection is Mix (XLR/TRS in - XLR out), Tracking (XLR/TRS in - XLR out), Mic and Mic+ (Dedicated mic XLR in) This allows you to have mics attached, and outboard setup attached (synths, line level inputs, etc.) and a mix path. Hope that makes sense. I'm extra thick today, would you please elaborate on the difference between Mic and Mic+? Also, any possibility of a fairly good quality instrument-in? Or 2 for keyboards? Les - I think Brad covered the Mic/Mic+ for ya. The tracking inputs can be used as keyboard/synth/sampler/drum machine inputs if desired - and it's great quality. Oh, I see now Brad answered that as well.... LOL A little thick myself. :-)
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Post by drbill on Dec 8, 2014 15:49:38 GMT -6
Thanks for the kind words guys. Honestly, its a new way of working, and although I think it's great and intuitive, there were some people that had a hard time "getting it" at AES, but IMO it's a great solution for guys working ITB that want/need to get some analog vibe back into their productions and mixes. Who were those people? I didn't talk to a single one of them. I'm sick with the flu right now. As soon as I can manage some coherent thoughts I promise to join this conversation. I know there are some questions to address. Thanks for making this thread, John. Back to feeling like death, Brad LOL I guess they sought me out. You look too brainy. :-) Feel better.
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Post by BradM on Dec 8, 2014 16:02:21 GMT -6
Brad likes to use it differently. He configures it as the "front end" to his DAW or other recording device - running mics or external pre's thru it and going to the DAW. Everything goes thru the SB before entering digital land. Some people mentioned that it would sit on their mix bus inserts, and never move with no switches changed once they found their personal "sweet spot". So....lots of ideas, lots of options, lots of uses. How would YOU use it? I'm curious to know. That's not entirely correct, but I will probably use this as a goto mic pre because I especially like the way it reacts to dynamics and ribbons. What I'm actually looking forward to doing is using it on the master inserts of my console. That's where I intend to use my personal unit. I currently have an API style summing amp in the master section of my D&R Vision console, but what I will likely do is revert back to the stock D&R summing circuit and hard wire the Silver Bullet on the master inserts so I can choose between D&R, API-ish, and Neve-ish mix bus flavors. I figure if folks are doing it with plugins then why can't I do it with hardware? Honestly...the Silver Bullet is configured on my kitchen counter right next to my Breville toaster and an oscilloscope. Not a lot of records being made in the kitchen at the moment. But let me tell you...the late night toast and tea is fabulous. Brad
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Post by LesC on Dec 8, 2014 16:12:13 GMT -6
I'm extra thick today, would you please elaborate on the difference between Mic and Mic+? Also, any possibility of a fairly good quality instrument-in? Or 2 for keyboards? Mic+ basically has more gain for lower output sources and things like ribbon mics. It's a gain boost basically. Mic mode gives you enough headroom to amplifier loud things like condenser mics on drums. But for something like a R121 on a fingerpicked acoustic you'll definitely want Mic+ for the extra gain boost. The Tracking inputs have combo jacks which allow you to plug in a synth or line level input. I purposefully didn't put a DI on this design because I feel that there are awesome DI's out there like the REDDI or Tonecraft 363 or even the DI's on Jeff's VP28's that can be used as a front end to the Silver Bullet. I didn't want this to be some kind of jack of all trades / master of none kind of box and have the cost be driven up without very good reason. Plus--I'm personally not a huge user of DI's and wish that most of my mic pres didn't have them so I didn't have to look at the gaping hole in the front of faceplate. The flu might be making me cranky I think. Brad I figured that's why you don't have the DI's, just checking. I'm currently using the DI's on my Heritage DMA73 (Neve flavor) and on my Warm TB12's (API flavour). I seem to get better results with the keyboards/synths through the DI's instead of the line-ins on those units, a bit more colored I guess. And thanks for the explanation of Mic and Mic+, that clears it up.
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Post by LesC on Dec 8, 2014 16:16:12 GMT -6
I'm extra thick today, would you please elaborate on the difference between Mic and Mic+? Also, any possibility of a fairly good quality instrument-in? Or 2 for keyboards? Les - I think Brad covered the Mic/Mic+ for ya. The tracking inputs can be used as keyboard/synth/sampler/drum machine inputs if desired - and it's great quality. Oh, I see now Brad answered that as well.... LOL A little thick myself. :-) Well, I'm thicker on the outside, but still with a creamy soft center. By the way, this box looks great. I was thinking something similar with my DMA73 and my TB12's, but having this reside full-time on the mix buss would really simplify things.
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