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Post by tonycamphd on Dec 6, 2014 11:17:18 GMT -6
Helios kicks ass, they're just temperamental, use a little distance( which almost always sounds better), and HP the bottom up as high as u can get away with, should solve the dr/hr issues.
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 6, 2014 11:47:22 GMT -6
Why don't you just ditch the Helios all together and grab a pre that might work better for you? I've heard the helios distortion on a couple really new and popular releases. They just sound like massive mistakes. I would ditch those things so fast and get a Heider. It has the vibe but not the problems. My 2 Cents. Already have the Heider. Yeah - don't like the Helios distortion. Hence this thread...but clean, I love the Helios. Just sounds like nothing else to me. Believe you can hear that distortion on the Sturgill vocals...not my favorite either - though I love that SS record. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 11, 2014 9:25:59 GMT -6
Hey nobtwiddler - you ever run into this with your Helios stuff? I think you have the reissues too, correct? Do you know what I'm talking about, or am I just doing it wrong? LOL |
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Post by jimwilliams on Dec 11, 2014 10:41:22 GMT -6
Those run on rather low power rails. Nothing can fix that except getting a qualified person to review the circuit, find where the voltage limitations are (cap values) and increase the power rails so that problem doesn't happen. Analog tape only needed +4 dbu, digital converters require more, hence the problem.
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Post by popmann on Dec 11, 2014 13:05:46 GMT -6
No they don't. ADC do NOT require more level. They CAN TAKE more level without blowing up....that's not the same thing. At all.
The myth of the Magic 23rd bit continues.
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Post by tonycamphd on Dec 11, 2014 14:08:24 GMT -6
No they don't. ADC do NOT require more level. They CAN TAKE more level without blowing up....that's not the same thing. At all. The myth of the Magic 23rd bit continues. yeah pop, JW doesn't know what he's talking about? smh... Why don't you try asking him how he came to this instead of being smug and dismissive?  |
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Post by popmann on Dec 11, 2014 15:37:03 GMT -6
I do know, and the reason is in my reply. You can call that smug all you want. we all believed that at some point as bit depth of converters increased. the myth of the magic 23rd bit.
Of course he knows what he's talking about. It takes way more level to get to digital full scale. Recording near full scale will give you the ultimate SNR. And better analog chip design to get there with less distortion. Where I strongly disagree is that theres any fundamental gain in getting there....in fact, it's literally detrimental,IME--you are manufacturing a situation, where (to tie back to topic) a classic design simply can't work as designed....a situation where you need to mod clean circuits to be cleaner at even higher levels....a situation that will bite you in the ass if you ALSO mix digitally where those full scale files will cause even more issues.
I dont intend any disrespect to Jim. He's speaking as an electrical engineer. He's not wrong technically--he's working on a flawed assumption of the need, IME, as an audio engineer who has spent more than 15years in digital...after avoiding it like the plague for years because "it sounds bad". I had no interest in digital. It sounded horrible for drums and guitars....it was more kind to quieter acoustic sources....but-point being, as an audio engineer, At some point, I had no choice. And so I learned to work in the medium available. An important part of that was getting it through my thick skull that we not only didn't NEED to be near full scale, but it was detrimental in a number of way to aim for that-despite as he correctly points out that being where the highest SNR lies.
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 11, 2014 16:28:53 GMT -6
I have no idea about the mythical 23rd bit rate effecting the signal to noise ratio. I just asked if there was a machine that could make my noises louder after it comes out of the first machine and before it goes into the second machine.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Dec 11, 2014 16:54:26 GMT -6
I have no idea about the mythical 23rd bit rate effecting the signal to noise ratio. I just asked if there was a machine that could make my noises louder after it comes out of the first machine and before it goes into the second machine. Hopefully it's not clean, but why don't you grab a Heritage EQJR or whatever it's called. From what i can tell, it's a line amp and eq. Helios > EQJR > Sta. Sounds like a nice chain to me. |
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Post by popmann on Dec 11, 2014 18:18:49 GMT -6
I have no idea about the mythical 23rd bit rate effecting the signal to noise ratio. I just asked if there was a machine that could make my noises louder after it comes out of the first machine and before it goes into the second machine. I know. I apologize. that was response to other comments....i have never been in the position of needing to hit a compressor harder to avoid it's own input amp. I get the sentiment/goal, but I honestly think you're working against yourself. The input amp of a compressor isn't going to add a ton of color by the amount of gain it's pushing, until maybe you're at some extreme. It adds color by way of the input tranny/circuit itself--you would actually be adding more of it's color by hitting its input amp harder--despite the amp pushing into it being cleaner if you were to take the comp out of the path. The myth of the 23rd bit. I could go into depth--but, quickly, it's the belief that recording as close to full scale is the secret to great digital recording, as it offers the best SNR ratio there. But, in reality, the reason 24bit ADC sound so much bettr than 16 is because it will easily capture 16-20 VALID bits without getting near clipping or needing the entire front end (including the ADC's own line amp) to be able to operate cleanly at +15. It allows you to capture a more complete 16-20bit signal. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 11, 2014 18:21:17 GMT -6
I have no idea about the mythical 23rd bit rate effecting the signal to noise ratio. I just asked if there was a machine that could make my noises louder after it comes out of the first machine and before it goes into the second machine. Hopefully it's not clean, but why don't you grab a Heritage EQJR or whatever it's called. From what i can tell, it's a line amp and eq. Helios > EQJR > Sta. Sounds like a nice chain to me. Hmm. might be a good idea! |
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