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Post by tonycamphd on Dec 3, 2014 21:26:02 GMT -6
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Post by junior on Dec 3, 2014 23:42:19 GMT -6
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Post by unit7 on Dec 4, 2014 1:54:15 GMT -6
I've bought a few things from Stephen Sank so that's why I went for the CLs. Don't know anything about the others. I was thinking about the 2 channel version too to save some. But the idea w these is to tie them to the mic stand hooked up to the short cables attached to many ribbons. Otherwise, if you run long cable runs you might pick up noise/RF. That's why many classical engineers put the preamps (sometimes remote controlled) close to the orchestra, even when not using ribbons. Anyway, I planned to use the CLs like this so I went for 1 channel versions for flexibility, otherwise I'd only be able to use (the 2 channel version) on stereo applications, or at least when the two sources were fairly close to eachother. I've got both standard and Z versions. When I got the Z versions I experimented with the ribbons I have here (4038, RCA 44A, 74B and Varacoustic/MI6203) and to my ears the impedance on the standard version was spot on to give the fullest sound/optimal gain. Could vary with other ribbons of course, or the Z version could come in handy in other cases.
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Post by svart on Dec 4, 2014 8:00:22 GMT -6
I've never really had to turn my preamps up more than maybe halfway when using my R121 on any source.
Anyway, Tony, you're a crafty fellow..
Why don't you make one? Make a pair of JFET guitar booster circuits, and exchange the input 1M (typical) resistor with a rheostat for variable "impedance". You could use a dual pot to control impedance on both + and - inputs with one turn. It'd be like 10-15 parts on a perfboard, a couple hours of work and less than 20$.
Also, look at the input section of the Neve 33609. Use the JFET and BJT buffers, and maybe the transformer if you're willing. Now you have a super high impedance input and low output impedance differential circuit.
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Post by WKG on Dec 4, 2014 10:11:40 GMT -6
I've had a couple of FetHeads for awhile. Sold them and now have the 2 channel Cloudlifter CL2. I thought the CL 2 was a bit hotter and a hair quieter. The input impedances differ, 22k for FetHead, 3k for the Cloudlifter. The Cloudlifter sounded more natural to me whereas the FetHead was a little more open on top. Both work very well though. I do like the FetHead's convenience of just plugging direct into the mic, I ended up making a few short cables for the CL2.
I vote for the CL. Haven't tried the variable impedance version or the CAPI Mogaines though.
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Post by jimwilliams on Dec 4, 2014 10:14:50 GMT -6
Mr. Cloud discussed the designs with me. These are a pair of closely matched jfets. If you can match them, have at it. You will need to buy a bunch of fets and sort them. Using a matched pair like Linear Systems LSK389 makes it very easy. There are only a handful of parts in mine. I don't really need it here as my mic preamps have a -136 db EIN with a zero ohm input, -133 db EIN at 50 ohms.
I also did extensive Audio Precision tests on it for Cloud. It measured good THD specs and only degraded the noise specs -1 db. It's a good product made unnecessary by the use of a very low noise mic preamp. If you can't swing one of those, it will do.
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Post by kidvybes on Dec 4, 2014 10:31:23 GMT -6
...Tony, I could swear I told you to grab a pair of Chuck Dickenson's "Durham" boxes not long ago...only $65 each and contain the identical FET-based circuit he incorporates in his active ribbon mic...each unit contains 4 hand-matched LSK170 J-fets...they're normally not listed on his Cathedral Pipes site, as he only makes a small run every so often, so you have to reach out thru the site email and request availability...I see there's a small quantity in stock now: www.cathedralpipes.com/zen-cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=65&products_id=200...worth the effort! Attachments:
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Post by Randge on Dec 4, 2014 13:32:44 GMT -6
I have a pair the regular Cloudlifters and a single one of the Cloudlifter Z's. They do help when you have a low output SM-7B or a Altec Birdcage but I find I don't have to turn up any of my preamps (if I don't use them)to crazy loud where noise is an issue at this point . I am not scared of a little noise anyway. It takes some of the sterile digital away when I mix. I like to use the gentle hi-pass filter though and use it a lot when recording upright bass. I can get it to thump and be clear at the same time. The sweepable impedance is a pretty handy tone dialer when you are mating old and new gear sometimes as well.
R
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Post by tonycamphd on Dec 4, 2014 14:02:24 GMT -6
really? I hate noise, I'm on an impossible mission to eliminate it from my rig all together lol, I always maximize my S/N ratio with gain on a pre, i find you need about 80db of super clean gain with ribbons to get it right, hence my interest in these things(i'd LOVE a JW hi speed pre!). Thump/noise are competing forces that are inextricably combined, meaning thump is only as dramatic in contrast to the level of noise/silence that precedes/follows it, especially when compression is applied, which in effect brings whatever noise floor that is present.. closer to the surface.
To be clear, i don't equate noise with old school vibe, they are indeed two different things imo, and i certainly love the vibe/character of old school.
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Post by Randge on Dec 4, 2014 15:01:47 GMT -6
Listen to Bing Crosby "White Christmas" again. Lots of noise and it doesn't bother me a bit. I am a meticulous noise editor when cleaning tracks, but preamps making a slight bit of natural noise, is fine by me. Every Neve I have ever heard has a little.
R
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Post by unit7 on Dec 4, 2014 15:28:47 GMT -6
Listen to Bing Crosby "White Christmas" again. Lots of noise and it doesn't bother me a bit. I am a meticulous noise editor when cleaning tracks, but preamps making a slight bit of natural noise, is fine by me. Every Neve I have ever heard has a little. R Love u Tony, but + 1 one this
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Post by tonycamphd on Dec 4, 2014 18:25:07 GMT -6
Listen to Bing Crosby "White Christmas" again. Lots of noise and it doesn't bother me a bit. I am a meticulous noise editor when cleaning tracks, but preamps making a slight bit of natural noise, is fine by me. Every Neve I have ever heard has a little. R Love u Tony, but + 1 one this lol, how did this turn into me not liking Bing? i didn't see it as a disagreement as much as a maybe a different philosophy, and i'm not even sure about that? To me gain staging is of paramount importance is all i'm saying, i LOVE a ton of old noisy recordings, the performance of BC on WC is killer, but i have to say it's bass drum sound is weak 8) I kiddd
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Post by kidvybes on Dec 4, 2014 22:33:41 GMT -6
While I'm not Tony I appreciate the tip... been meaning to grab a pair of CL's, grabbed these instead! I think you'll be real satisfied with these...very rugged, well-constructed and great on my ribbon and dynamic mics, and I suspect, every bit as good as the more costly options...they do exactly what they were designed to do...a bargain for sure! (BTW, there's still 7 units available!)
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Post by WKG on Dec 5, 2014 9:55:42 GMT -6
While I'm not Tony I appreciate the tip... been meaning to grab a pair of CL's, grabbed these instead! I think you'll be real satisfied with these...very rugged, well-constructed and great on my ribbon and dynamic mics, and I suspect, every bit as good as the more costly options...they do exactly what they were designed to do...a bargain for sure! (BTW, there's still 7 units available!)
Had you been able to compare these with the Cloudlifter?
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Post by tonycamphd on Dec 5, 2014 10:16:07 GMT -6
I found this, Ronan in the house! Ronan is just a cool cat 8)
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Post by drbill on Dec 5, 2014 10:18:27 GMT -6
Thump/noise are competing forces that are inextricably combined, meaning thump is only as dramatic in contrast to the level of noise/silence that precedes/follows it, especially when compression is applied, which in effect brings whatever noise floor that is present.. closer to the surface. Not to be devil's advocate Tony, but then how did all those early 60's, 70's, 80.s records that we all love get made? If you're fighting a noise floor in 2014, you'd have been fighting an inter-galactic apocalyptic war in 1970. System-wide, the noise floor was probably 30dB higher on the best of gear. Far worse on the worst of it. I agree about the compression comment. That's why we CUT with compression. Tape noise on a heavily compressed pre recorded part was just too ugly. Honestly, with the gear I have today, I never even think about noise anymore. If I LOOK hard for it I can find it, but it's a non-issue music wise. And on point, both the FEThead's and Cathedral Pipes units have worked for me. I think I like the FETheads a bit more.
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Post by tonycamphd on Dec 5, 2014 11:45:45 GMT -6
my comments are certainly being misconstrued, they were in reference to not pulling the maximum GBD out of a preamp, getting the most out of gain staging should be an AEing fundamental ritual, and of paramount importance, what's the point of your digital gears great s/n d/r spec if you don't take advantage of it? i thought it was pretty clear that was what i was saying...no? It also goes beyond tracking, I'm constantly looking at continuing to maintain terrific dynamic range between max volume/ silence in a mix, it's what ensures punch, beef, power etc. I'm careful about my use of compression, reverb, delays, etc in order to not compromise the silences i worked so hard to get. You can add a synth pad behind a super punchy mix, completely filtered above and below 3-5k, put it waaaay back in the mix, and still rob it of a lot of it's punch/power, if i'm forced to do something like this, i will almost always go through painstaking automation, or at least key a gate or compressor to squeeze out as much life and punch as i can get from a mix, i know i'm not the only one who understands this. Song and performance aside, the difference between a great mix and a boring mix is the emotion thats created by it's extremes in its contrast of image, volumes, movements= it's power. It's the most important contribution we can make to music as AE's, can anyone seriously argue that?
so i say again, the impact of X is only as powerful as the silence of y and Z that precede and follow it, or exist in the spaces..(or some shit like that lol) You can even be driving in a car with a very high noise floor and still feel it's implications..without a doubt.
we're always talking about how this industry has gotten so diluted with low levelers, and we need to adapt and figure out a way to stand out from the massive crowd, one way to do that is strive to be plain better. IE, I'm currently trying to get the ambient noise floor in my track/mix room to rock bottom, if someone elses room has 10db more noise over mine(and it's usually much more as i'm at 29-31db right now, and still have some issues to deal with), how much does that add up over 32 tracks...let alone 100 tracks? lol, it's not a huge deal, but it all matters, and it just may be the straw that breaks the back of my competition? So no compromises on my end, skin your cat as you see fit.
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Post by drbill on Dec 5, 2014 11:52:58 GMT -6
An easy way to stand out? Don't get your mixes mastered with a total of 8dB dynamic range.... LOL
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Post by kidvybes on Dec 5, 2014 13:00:20 GMT -6
I think you'll be real satisfied with these...very rugged, well-constructed and great on my ribbon and dynamic mics, and I suspect, every bit as good as the more costly options...they do exactly what they were designed to do...a bargain for sure! (BTW, there's still 7 units available!)
Had you been able to compare these with the Cloudlifter?
No, I have not...but a number of my associates have purchased these, and I've yet to hear anything but very satisfied reviews...and another associate has a pair of Chuck's "Seville" active ribbon mics (http://www.cathedralpipes.com/seville.php), which employ the identical circuit, and he loves them as well...
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