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Post by wiz on Nov 30, 2014 21:04:36 GMT -6
I may have said this before.
I have a samson 1/4" patch bay.
Each row can be selected from the front panel, as Normal/Half normalled/Thru
I love that flexibility
it has worked fine (touch wood)
cheers
Wiz
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Post by svart on Nov 30, 2014 21:10:12 GMT -6
I have 8x CAPI 312, 4x 1272. I typically find a mic that works on a source and I leave it patched on that source, into the same mic pre. I typically leave all my outboard patched into the inserts on the channels I typically leave set up for certain sources.
I rarely unpatch things, unless it's a very different session that I need to move things around.
I'm 100% in the CLA boat with I'd rather just buy another new device rather than repatch things over and over.
I've bought a number of patchbays on ebay, all TT/Bantam. Most of them I cut and remove the wiring and do my own wiring and normalling.
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Post by unit7 on Dec 1, 2014 1:29:10 GMT -6
The ones that worked out well had a 1/4 inch TRS jack on each side. For the life of me I can't remember the manufacturer. I had that type in my home studio in the 90s. Mine was Signex Isopatch. Kind of semi pro, but never failed the years I had them. |
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Post by jimwilliams on Dec 1, 2014 10:30:23 GMT -6
Maybe it's from working in other pro rooms for so many years, I don't "normalize" anything here. I approach a recording with a blank slate. No pre-concieved prejudices, patterns or pre-wired in gear chains, every artist is different and so is the recording process. Since every artist is different, why should the recording chain be the same?
Artists and end listeners won't be impressed by how easy and preset your records are even if you are.
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Post by svart on Dec 1, 2014 11:05:01 GMT -6
Maybe it's from working in other pro rooms for so many years, I don't "normalize" anything here. I approach a recording with a blank slate. No pre-concieved prejudices, patterns or pre-wired in gear chains, every artist is different and so is the recording process. Since every artist is different, why should the recording chain be the same? Artists and end listeners won't be impressed by how easy and preset your records are even if you are. Because people come to you for your sound. Your sound is based on how you use your equipment, so by extension, your sound is your settings. Even when someone says they do everything differently every time, if they know their equipment well, then they will instinctively use it in a similar fashion every time. Call it the "sweet spot" or whatever you will, but make no mistake, people are creatures of habit. |
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Dec 1, 2014 11:57:43 GMT -6
I try to keep my stuff set up for ease of use. So what ends up happening is I have to do a major clean up about twice a month. I start out with good intentions, but in a few days, I have cables laying everywhere, guitars laying everywhere, mics moved here and there, even preamps and amps shuffled around.
I've found it near possible to stay consistent because the music itself is so different. Calls for use of different measures in most cases. Am I alone in this?
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Post by drbill on Dec 1, 2014 14:17:46 GMT -6
No. That's why God created patch bays. :-) Makes reshuffling easy. |
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Dec 1, 2014 14:36:43 GMT -6
Patch bays I have, 96 channels to be exact. I don't have my mic lines ran to bay's though. Does anybody do this?
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Post by jcoutu1 on Dec 1, 2014 14:38:17 GMT -6
Patch bays I have, 96 channels to be exact. I don't have my mic lines ran to bay's though. Does anybody do this? I use this to patch my mics to the pres... www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/P16 |
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Post by tonycamphd on Dec 1, 2014 15:08:32 GMT -6
Patch bays I have, 96 channels to be exact. I don't have my mic lines ran to bay's though. Does anybody do this? I don't, I have an XLR/1/4" line input panel, they are wired directly to the inputs of my outboard pre's (I don't use console pre's), my pre outs are normaled to 1-8 on my interface through the patchbay, but i can plug a bantam cable in and route it anywhere i choose to go very easily. I don't recommend running 48v through the patchbay, i've heard of guys doing this without issues, but there is the possibility of noise from dirty connections, and if you push/pull a patch cable, the tip crosses over the ring/sleeve, a potential bad scene if you accidentally leave your phantom power ON(which someone will inevitably do). |
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Post by wiz on Dec 1, 2014 15:08:47 GMT -6
I have a snake and stage box.
The stage box is connected directly to the mic preamps whose outputs go to the top row of my patch bay. Those outputs are normalled to the inputs of my sound card.
Outboard is in the patch bay as well.
I have mic leads running around the walls to certain places (on the floor against the wall, not in the wall) and each end is labelled. These are in the spots I normally record in. Different parts of the room work for different things.
I also have portable Gobos (Acousticsorb panel 4' by 2' on a mic stand set up like a "T") that I put up in different places e.g. around drums.. and most of the time they stay set up as my vocal and acoustic guitar recording area.
I find this system works best for me. As nothing is in the wall. its easy to change the layout if I want. I sort of patch in two places... the stage box.. and the patch bay.
So I might set up mic up at one end of the room and plug it into my 1073 into which is input 7. then I might want to move to the other end of the room and use the same preamp , I just unplug the mic , move to the new spot .. plug the mic in... walk over to the stage box and change leads. Same mic, same pre different spot in room.
Or if I want to just change preamps, again just make the change at the stage box.
I have a return coming out of the stage box for headphone send and one at the other end of the room. So I can just unplug my headphones and walk to the other end. Or when tracking drums the drummer uses one end and me the other.
What I find most important is ergonomics.
NEVER KNOCKING SOMETHIING OVER ....
I also use my iPad and logics remote control. I have my iPad in a mount on a mic stand that I can move easy... e.g. the Drummer gets to use it when tracking.
I usually chart out the the kick and snare groove for him in drum notation... it makes things easier in two ways, one it stops people overplaying way to early in the tracking, and two it makes things much much faster.
The second reason for the drummer having the iPad is he can see the arrangement. I put markers in the song in Logic and when you tap the beats bar window on the iPad it kind of zooms those markers... so I write VERSE, CHORUS etc as well as any instructions like STOP FOR 4 BARS, JUST HAT ON 2 and 4 etc and we fly through now with tracking.
I write things down in a exercise book, thats my recall. Just shorthand.... 1073, 55db Trim 9am U87 rear of Room 2ft off mic, STA 12pm 9am (those are input and output knobs) Single (release time)
or Stratburst PU4 wide open ( which guitar which pick up, tone and volume controls) Princeton 4,5,5,5, 7 (knobs on the princeton ) TG500 45dB 12pm 9am Z (impedance) 9am 80Hz(high pass) 57
thats a few of the things over the years that have helped me... probably won't work for everyone.
cheers
Wiz
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Post by tonycamphd on Dec 1, 2014 15:15:42 GMT -6
I have a snake and stage box. The stage box is connected directly to the mic preamps whose outputs go to the top row of my patch bay. Those outputs are normalled to the inputs of my sound card. Outboard is in the patch bay as well. I have mic leads running around the walls to certain places (on the floor against the wall, not in the wall) and each end is labelled. These are in the spots I normally record in. Different parts of the room work for different things. I also have portable Gobos (Acousticsorb panel 4' by 2' on a mic stand set up like a "T") that I put up in different places e.g. around drums.. and most of the time they stay set up as my vocal and acoustic guitar recording area. I find this system works best for me. As nothing is in the wall. its easy to change the layout if I want. I sort of patch in two places... the stage box.. and the patch bay. So I might set up mic up at one end of the room and plug it into my 1073 into which is input 7. then I might want to move to the other end of the room and use the same preamp , I just unplug the mic , move to the new spot .. plug the mic in... walk over to the stage box and change leads. Same mic, same pre different spot in room. Or if I want to just change preamps, again just make the change at the stage box. I have a return coming out of the stage box for headphone send and one at the other end of the room. So I can just unplug my headphones and walk to the other end. Or when tracking drums the drummer uses one end and me the other. What I find most important is ergonomics. NEVER KNOCKING SOMETHIING OVER .... I also use my iPad and logics remote control. I have my iPad in a mount on a mic stand that I can move easy... e.g. the Drummer gets to use it when tracking. I usually chart out the the dick and snare groove for him in drum notation... it makes things easier in two ways, one it stops people overplaying way to early in the tracking, and two it makes things much much faster. The second reason for the drummer having the iPad is he can see the arrangement. I put markers in the song in Logic and when you tap the beats bar window on the iPad it kind of zooms those markers... so I write VERSE, CHORUS etc as well as any instructions like STOP FOR 4 BARS, JUST HAT ON 2 and 4 etc and we fly through now with tracking. I write things down in a exercise book, thats my recall. Just shorthand.... 1073, 55db Trim 9am U87 rear of Room 2ft off mic, STA 12pm 9am (those are input and output knobs) Single (release time) or Stratburst PU4 wide open ( which guitar which pick up, tone and volume controls) Princeton 4,5,5,5, 7 (knobs on the princeton ) TG500 45dB 12pm 9am Z (impedance) 9am 80Hz(high pass) 57 thats a few of the things over the years that have helped me... probably won't work for everyone. cheers Wiz I also find it helpful to chart out paths for my dick and snare, as they both seem to have minds of their own 8) |
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Post by wiz on Dec 1, 2014 15:17:39 GMT -6
ha... i found it and edit'd it
made me laugh when I read it... 8)
( i had misspelled and it read "dick and snare" instead of "kick"
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Post by svart on Dec 1, 2014 15:32:28 GMT -6
Patch bays I have, 96 channels to be exact. I don't have my mic lines ran to bay's though. Does anybody do this? All my mics go into an XLR/TRS combo patchbay, then come into the control room through a TT/bantam patchbay. If I don't insert a patch cable to send the mic to an outboard preamp, it normals to the mixer preamp instead. |
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Post by tonycamphd on Dec 1, 2014 16:26:56 GMT -6
Patch bays I have, 96 channels to be exact. I don't have my mic lines ran to bay's though. Does anybody do this? All my mics go into an XLR/TRS combo patchbay, then come into the control room through a TT/bantam patchbay. If I don't insert a patch cable to send the mic to an outboard preamp, it normals to the mixer preamp instead. are you sending 48v though the patchbay this way? if so, do you have to make sure the 48v is off when you patch? and if so, have you ever forgotten to shut it off? and if so, what happened? |
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,099 
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Post by ericn on Dec 1, 2014 18:12:59 GMT -6
All my mics go into an XLR/TRS combo patchbay, then come into the control room through a TT/bantam patchbay. If I don't insert a patch cable to send the mic to an outboard preamp, it normals to the mixer preamp instead. are you sending 48v though the patchbay this way? if so, do you have to make sure the 48v is off when you patch? and if so, have you ever forgotten to shut it off? and if so, what happened? With most mics, if everything is grounded properly this is not a problem, it has been the standard way to wire a patchbay for years, every board with patchbay included , Neve SSL DDA ect! Tony the fear of phantom and bays comes from those POS Made in China $99 dollar bays where there is no provision for strapping the grounds. Thus the Common GC / GS mind set well you can't do it with these so you can't do it with any bay! I have been in way to many studios built by guys far smarter than I, with far more valuable mics than I can dream of with mic inputs and pres on TT bays! These guys would hard wire blocking Capacitors to any mic where there was a problem and the only 2 I remember where an old birdcage and a Fostex Printed Ribbon prototype! |
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 2, 2014 9:14:03 GMT -6
My dbx doesn't seem to work with passing 48v through to the mic...although...I'm soooo confused. There's a chance I'm doing it wrong  |
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,099
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Post by ericn on Dec 2, 2014 9:18:56 GMT -6
My dbx doesn't seem to work with passing 48v through to the mic...although...I'm soooo confused. There's a chance I'm doing it wrong To pass phantom without damaging any thing you need to strap the grounds of all the modules, which is next to impossible on the Generic TRS made in china bays like your DBX! |
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 2, 2014 9:27:48 GMT -6
er...I think I'll just keep walking to the back and plug in the mic directly to the pre when I use my one SDC |
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Post by jimwilliams on Dec 2, 2014 10:21:19 GMT -6
I stopped wiring mic lines to TT bays back in the 1980's. I got rice krispies from that. You know, snap, crackle and pop. I got real friendly with a scotch pad.
I no longer do that.
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Post by svart on Dec 2, 2014 10:27:20 GMT -6
All my mics go into an XLR/TRS combo patchbay, then come into the control room through a TT/bantam patchbay. If I don't insert a patch cable to send the mic to an outboard preamp, it normals to the mixer preamp instead. are you sending 48v though the patchbay this way? if so, do you have to make sure the 48v is off when you patch? and if so, have you ever forgotten to shut it off? and if so, what happened? Yeah I sent 48V through the patchbay. I generally turn off the phantom to the mics and give it a few seconds until the audio from the mic dies signifying that the mic has drained the power reserve from the line. Sometimes I forget, and I'll hot plug/unplug. I've never had a mic or preamp failure though, and I've probably done it more than I should admit. Typically phantom supplies have ~6k8 resistors (or something relatively similar) for short protection. Mics typically have the same, or some type of series resistors in circuit. I wouldn't attempt doing it a lot, but I wouldn't be too afraid to do it occasionally. |
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Dec 2, 2014 22:41:17 GMT -6
Dec 2, 2014 10:21:19 GMT -6 jimwilliams said:
I stopped wiring mic lines to TT bays back in the 1980's. I got rice krispies from that. You know, snap, crackle and pop. I got real friendly with a scotch pad.
I no longer do that.
Exactly, we all learned this the hard way. In my case, it fried a brand new RCA 77DX. |
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Post by jimwilliams on Dec 3, 2014 10:06:24 GMT -6
I do miss seeing the sparks from 48 volts getting shorted out to the sleeve. It was exciting.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2014 7:28:04 GMT -6
I'm finding more and more - the more complicated something is, the less likely I am to use it. I'm gonna use some of my holiday money this year to setting things up so they're ready to go...e.g. having my amp miked up and ready to go...having a stand and mic ready to go for acoustics...having a dedicated mic pre and mic ready to go. I've kind've avoided buying two pres of the same type, because I've considered it a waste, but man, convenience is everything. Just making it as easy as possible to be creative. Any suggestions? Templates, keeping things tidy, having a system that you know like the back of your hand. I used to leave my kit mic'd with 4 mics, kemper and sans amp plugged in, bass and guitar readily available with my SM7 on my desk to sing melodies over the playing so nothing was forgotten. If an idea came to me I could get it put down quick. Worked really well, now I use the iPhone for that stuff, I've considered grabbing that Rhode ST mic for that stuff. I bring the Zen and Mac to band practice when we've made enough iPhone demos and do a little better sounding version for me to bounce ideas off. When ideas don't come I'll take in any kind of art that isn't what I usually go for. I wouldn't necessarily double up all your equipment for this purpose though as I would imagine that would be very costly. |
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