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Post by tonycamphd on Nov 14, 2014 11:49:06 GMT -6
from a quick listen, the drums are the most up front on both tracks(other than the vox on the first track), that should making dealing with their bleed a bit easier i would think.
should be a very fun session man!
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Post by tonycamphd on Nov 14, 2014 11:51:50 GMT -6
check this out, i know there's no drums, but a lot of ribbons and gobos, maybe some inspiration? this album kills!
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Post by swurveman on Nov 14, 2014 12:05:19 GMT -6
Thanks Ward. When you say "compatable mics" are you talking about having the same mics, or generally saying mics that work together? The biggest problem I was having was the volume of the snare in the upright bass and snare mics. The mics I have with the narrowest patterns are sm57's and 421's. I recognize this is going to be a laborious process. Thanks for the heads up in how to work the process. Well. They all need to have the same phase for starts. And you need to avoid hyper-cardioids cos the null points can create more phase issues. I'd also avoid omnis except as room mics. Believe it or not, cardioid LDCs that sound similar to each other (like a bunch of U87s, U89s, TLM102s etc and Gefells) would probably give you the most homogenous sound for all elements. but I would still experiement! The off-axis sound of a Neumann LDC is infinitely nicer to the off-axis sound from ANY SDC. IMHO I wish I had multiple LDC's of the same mic, but its not in my budget now. I have a Neumann U87ai, Peluso 2247SE, Peluso P12, AT4050 and a Rode NTK along with a pair of Schoeps, pair of 414's and a Royers R121. So, I'll experiment a bit, but they have also given me a short window to record, since a few of the musicians are coming in from out of town. So, I'll be surprised if its not and SM57 session given the bleed situation. |
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Post by unit7 on Nov 14, 2014 12:09:01 GMT -6
from a quick listen, the drums are the most up front on both tracks(other than the vox on the first track), that should making dealing with their bleed a bit easier i would think. should be a very fun session man! Yes, snares are up front on those mixes but not particularly hard hit, so if he'll play like that you'll be fine! |
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Post by swurveman on Nov 14, 2014 12:13:53 GMT -6
from a quick listen, the drums are the most up front on both tracks(other than the vox on the first track), that should making dealing with their bleed a bit easier i would think. should be a very fun session man! Yeah, I did my tests without the band playing. It may play differently when everybody is playing. All I can do is get them in the room, try a first isolation setup, hit record, listen and adjust. Seat of the pants stuff. It's weird because I have fully explained the situation-the pros and cons (phase/bleed/not being able to utilize my best mics etc.) and they haven't blinked from wanting to record in the room. So, I'll do my best, but I told the bandleader that he's got to give the final nod when he wants the record light turned on and there's no turning back. It's not the way I'd do it given the room, my mics and my gear, but the clients the boss. |
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Post by unit7 on Nov 14, 2014 12:14:50 GMT -6
Googled Rubber foam SM57 Bass. Not an SM57 and not rubber foam but... Attachments:
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Post by swurveman on Nov 14, 2014 12:16:22 GMT -6
from a quick listen, the drums are the most up front on both tracks(other than the vox on the first track), that should making dealing with their bleed a bit easier i would think. should be a very fun session man! Yes, snares are up front on those mixes but not particularly hard hit, so if he'll play like that you'll be fine! Thanks Paul. I'll post a song when I'm done. It is going to be interesting.... |
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Post by swurveman on Nov 14, 2014 12:17:32 GMT -6
Googled Rubber foam SM57 Bass. Not an SM57 and not rubber foam but... Cool. Thanks |
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Post by tonycamphd on Nov 14, 2014 12:18:47 GMT -6
from a quick listen, the drums are the most up front on both tracks(other than the vox on the first track), that should making dealing with their bleed a bit easier i would think. should be a very fun session man! Yeah, I did my tests without the band playing. It may play differently when everybody is playing. All I can do is get them in the room, try a first isolation setup, hit record, listen and adjust. Seat of the pants stuff. It's weird because I have fully explained the situation-the pros and cons (phase/bleed/not being able to utilize my best mics etc.) and they haven't blinked from wanting to record in the room. So, I'll do my best, but I told the bandleader that he's got to give the final nod when he wants the record light turned on and there's no turning back. It's not the way I'd do it given the room, my mics and my gear, but the clients the boss. JMO, but i would actually contend it IS the way to do it, especially considering the old school sound of the demo's you posted, the "band" thing is the shit, overdubing and isolating players from one another is the first step in sterilizing music to vibe free status. Just go with it, keep a fun attitude about it, and you'll kill it man! |
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Post by swurveman on Nov 14, 2014 12:24:11 GMT -6
Yeah, I did my tests without the band playing. It may play differently when everybody is playing. All I can do is get them in the room, try a first isolation setup, hit record, listen and adjust. Seat of the pants stuff. It's weird because I have fully explained the situation-the pros and cons (phase/bleed/not being able to utilize my best mics etc.) and they haven't blinked from wanting to record in the room. So, I'll do my best, but I told the bandleader that he's got to give the final nod when he wants the record light turned on and there's no turning back. It's not the way I'd do it given the room, my mics and my gear, but the clients the boss. JMO, but i would actually contend it IS the way to do it, especially considering the old school sound of the demo's you posted, the "band" thing is the shit, overdubing and isolating players from one another is the first step in sterilizing music to vibe free status. Just go with it, keep a fun attitude about it, and you'll kill it man! Thanks Tony. I'm off to a session. So, I can't respond any more today. Thanks to everybody who participated. I have a much better comfort level with the whole thing now. I appreciate it! |
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Post by svart on Nov 14, 2014 12:36:31 GMT -6
Guess I'm a little late. It was said earlier to get folks as close together as possible. This is absolutely what I had to do before with a similar situation.
Get them close and then face them outwards from the drums like a fan. that way each mic faces inwards and gets a view of the instrument and the drums behind.
That way when you go to edit you can slip the tracks until the drum hits line up.
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Post by unit7 on Nov 26, 2014 0:48:06 GMT -6
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Post by swurveman on Nov 26, 2014 12:19:22 GMT -6
Yes Paul, thanks for asking . The session was a lot of fun with three very good players on drums, bass and piano. I isolated the bass player in our vocal booth. So, I had the trade off of the small space vs being able to use a LDC on the bass with no bleed. Try as I might there were still problems with the kick and snare drums in the piano mics, but we'll see how it all comes out in the mix. I think the quality of the players playing together live will offset the bleed. At least I hope so. The band still has overdubs to do, but I could post the raw mixes of the rhythm section if you or anybody else would like to hear them. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 17:53:09 GMT -6
Eesh sounds nightmarish. In this situation arrange everyone in a way that you can get the whole band as a stereo pair and then use spot mics to fill in. Put lots of blankets over the kick drum to muffle the rest of the junk. See maybe if there's a pickup that could be added to the bass just to fill in some low end. Spot mic vocals, snare, bass pup and kick. Let the pair of mics mix everything
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Post by swurveman on Dec 2, 2014 11:22:55 GMT -6
Here's a couple of MP3's from the session. These are all raw tracks of the drums,piano and bass. I placed the overheads close to the kit to prevent piano bleed, but some of the cymbal hits are loud, particularly in the first song here.. So, I'm going to have to automate them. Despite closing up the stand up piano and putting the mics inside what amounts to a sound box- and using gobos and blankets- the drums-particularly the kick- are in the two piano mics. It darkens the sound overall. The stereo imaging of the piano isn't great. So, I'll have to do some panning.
Any thoughts from the guys that have been following would be much appreciated. It was a fun session. The band didn't seem to mind the bleed. They are blues guys who like live sessions.
https%3A//soundcloud.com/songflowerrecording/rise-up-in-the-mornin-nov-20-m
https%3A//soundcloud.com/songflowerrecording/ride-that-train-nov20-mp3_2
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Post by unit7 on Dec 6, 2014 9:29:54 GMT -6
swurveman Hey Frank, sorry for the slow reply. I'm glad that you don't hate me for bad tips ruining your recording! It sounds like you got good control over that bleed and that it'll be a nice quality for the recording. If these are just the raw tracks I'm sure you'll be fine. Just for the fun you could play with checking how many ms delay there are between the bass drum close mic and when the bass drum appears in he piano mics, and delay the piano accordingly, just to hear what it'll do to the drum sound. I miss a bit of defenition on the bass, but maybe that's his sound. Also that tone/pitch on the snare is quite dominant, but that's your business:) Thumbs up, have fun!
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Post by swurveman on Dec 7, 2014 16:52:11 GMT -6
swurveman Hey Frank, sorry for the slow reply. I'm glad that you don't hate me for bad tips ruining your recording! It sounds like you got good control over that bleed and that it'll be a nice quality for the recording. If these are just the raw tracks I'm sure you'll be fine. Just for the fun you could play with checking how many ms delay there are between the bass drum close mic and when the bass drum appears in he piano mics, and delay the piano accordingly, just to hear what it'll do to the drum sound. I miss a bit of defenition on the bass, but maybe that's his sound. Also that tone/pitch on the snare is quite dominant, but that's your business:) Thumbs up, have fun! Hey Paul. I appreciated your tips before the recording. I will check the ms delay between the bass drum close mic and the bass drum in he piano mics, and delay the piano to hear what it'll do to the drum sound. Thanks for the tip. When I get everything overdubbed, I'll mix it and post it. Thanks again! Frank |
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