New Mix, too much compression?

Thanks Jim. I do mix at different levels, often quite low, but I do like to check vocal levels at high volume too. Sometimes what seems OK at low volume, knocks your head off at high volume.

I did what you suggested, put my monitors at the lowest level possible, and was surprised that it was all sitting pretty damn good, with an honestly good balance overall. My only concern was when the vocal came in, was that it might not be forward or loud enough. I've tried to dial out some of the low frequency push, but this is the best I can do here. I'd love to run this all through a nice board, just to see.

What do you think?

thanks jcoutou, I'll give it a listen flat, and see if I can figure out exactly what's happening.

I think it's a 50/50 thing, a combination of my proximity, and then mostly, all the compressors and gains in the mix.

It's difficult sometimes choosing a vocal take. I did this just after a really nasty chest cold. I did another vocal that was actually much cleaner, but this one had the vibe I wanted.

I gave it a little thought, and I think I know where this issue begins. A while back, I ordered a John Hardy990+ opamp for my Warm Audio ToneBeast. Kcat had tried it, and I thought, since they're switchable, why not? Perhaps I might like it a little more than the stock opamp. It sounds warmer, but it had less gain, so it kind of forced me to use a lot of gain on the pre, and I think that might be where the grit begins, that, and my gritty "post" terrible cough and chest cold vocal cords.

The original opamp was a Jensen based 918, I believe. I also have the stock API style 731 opamp in the ToneBeast also, it's a different flavor, and I like it on guitars, but not so much for vocals. When I have some extra time, I may switch back. I have a friend who's coming in 2-3 weeks. He's a world class engineer, I'm hoping he has enough time to help me sort this out.

For jcoutou and friends, I ran a few seconds of the vocal with absolutely no plugs of any kind, none on the track, none on the 2 bus. If you turn it up, you'll hear a low frequency hum. That's the elevator engine shaft under my apartment.


https%3A//soundcloud.com/martin-john-butler/solo-vocal-empty-2-bus

It sounds to me like some background noise is a bit of the culprit as well. It is enhanced by the multiple compression stages.

R

Nice track Martin, love the guitars. I agree with what was said before, I would still set the vocals into the track a bit more and bring up the snare. Grain o'salt, as Tony said, as I love my drums loud and it may not be to everyone's taste. For the bass, I often use headphones to judge initial bass levels, that takes the room out of the equation, then later adjust it on speakers

https%3A//soundcloud.com/martin-john-butler/somethings-coming-tc-mix

Tonycamphd kindly sent me a note with some step by step suggestions, and I follow his instructions to the letter. First I took everything off the 2 bus and balanced the mix with no plugs, other than one's that were used as effects like the UAD Dimension D on a guitar. I panned everything LCR as he suggested, gave the snare and kick a little tweak to come up a bit in the center, then put a little UAD Pultec on them, other than that, I put no EQ, really zero EQ on anything except subtractive in one or two spots, and then I added +2db at 5k on the API EQ on the background vocals only, and that's it.

 Then I listened to the vocal with no plugs, I then turned on the plugs of the main vocal one at a time to see what they were doing. I kept what helped, dumped what didn't. I backed the main vocal reverb off a little (ReLab 480XL) and the channel strip is now API EQ > Renaissance Desser, (only a pinch, too much killed the thing, so I left a few obvious esses , then Waves Vocal Rider with a very small range, then the UAD LA2A ( I discovered this was culprit #1 of the gritty vocal in the previous mix), then a little Kush Clariphonic, ( this is to return some of the air in the overtones lost in bouncing, it sounded fine without it until listening to the bounce.)

I then went to the empty 2 bus, and added one plug at a time, and only blended in about 30-40% of the Slate VBC, then to the UAD Ampex ATR-102, and right there I found the true source of the distortion, and simply changed the levels, the UAD ATR-102 was set too high, I then added a just little Clariphonic for the same reason as the vocal, for the bounce, but now on the whole track, and ran a mix, saved it. The level was quite low, but the balance was great when I turned up the monitor volume.

Only then did I pop the AOM Limiter on the track and mess with it to get some level for fun and for posting.

I plan to have this properly mastered at some point, and the version without the last Limiter in the track is saved, and ready.

I compared the mix three times to previous mixes, ran bounces, and erased them 3 times more until it sounded right. I chose to leave the vocal a little hot, adding the smallest amount more I could of the UAD ATR-102 because I was keeping in mind a quote from Jimmy Iovine who said something to the effect that the best vocalist is the one you believe, and for some reason, set this way, a little hot, I believed the vocal. Now, I feel like I have a RECORD, not a demo, and it's only because all of you took the time to write such great comments that I think I found my way there.

My friend Jay Messina, ( the real deal engineer) will probably stop by my place sometime in the next few weeks, and I'll see what he thinks of it all, and let you know.

Thanks so much guys, you've made an important difference to something that means the world to me. I hope I can return the favor some day.

I named this the TC mix in honor of Tony !

Thanks so much formatcyes. I seriously appreciate the cats here taking the time to have a listen. I'm doing this all in my noisy living room by myself.

That means a lot to me wiz, really. Thanks.

Sometimes when someone takes care to point you in the right direction it makes all the difference, thanks Tony. I'll be trying the" TC Method" of mixing every chance I get now.

Agree with all. It sounds great. The vocal may be a tad too hot, but that is truly splitting hairs. Nothing on the stage is being stepped on or getting short-changed.

Thanks guys. I was on the fence with the vocal level. One small click in one direction and it sat perfectly, but it didn't grab me, one click the other way, and it was a little hot. I'm going to let it sit for a few days or so, and then see with fresh ears if I want to tweak a little, but I'm happy where it is now, so it shouldn't be too difficult. My monitoring situation's not great, so it's a little more frustrating to mix here than it usually is.

That's the George Harrison model Gretsch Country Gentleman 12 string Levon. My friend loaned it to me, and it's expensive, ( like, $2,500.) but it's the sweetest 12 string I've ever seen. I liked it much more than a Rickenbacker.

Thanks jcoutou, lending your ears is much appreciated..

I had borrowed my friends Neumann K84, and discovered I love it in front of my guitar cabinets. If only I could keep it :-(

Martin, based on my personal (in)experience, you might want to lower the vox and then bump the bass as separate actions. I have been guilty of changing multiple things in a single pass, only to wonder which "thing" improved (or degraded) the mix.