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Post by M57 on Nov 8, 2014 13:37:32 GMT -6
First time poster - been lurking for a week or so. I'm very impressed by the amount of knowledge you all share and the level of expertise of the 'common' poster - clearly there are a lot of pros here.
I'm just making vanity recordings - I've got a day job and don't really know that many musicians so I do it all myself. I've just moved and will be upgrading my home studio situation, both physically (with the room) and equipment wise. I'm very close to making an equipment purchase (in part from information I've gleaned from these forums), and I would be very appreciative of whatever advice you folks are willing to offer. I'm hoping that some folks here can listen to my voice and suggest a good mic ..or chain.
https%3A//soundcloud.com/m57/the-lie
https%3A//soundcloud.com/m57/hello-everyone-revised
I've got the baby grand in the studio this time, and I tune it myself so I'm hoping to use it on future recordings. I'm 90% sold on purchasing a CV4 and am even flirting with the idea of shipping it directly to MicRehab for the 'works'. I'm looking to use it mostly for my vocals and guitars.
Gear:
iMac running Logic Pro X
Focusright Saffire56 (with the two liquid channels which I find are so-so, but I'm pretty happy with the stock pres.
NT-5s and a DBX376 (for the piano) I've been dabbling with it and I think I'll be able to get a good sound once I treat the room with some bass traps and the like.
AT4033 - I find it a tad on the dark and muddy side for my voice, but I like it for the classical guitar
NT-1A I'm pretty sure I used the Rode for the vocals on both these recordings.
I was reading one of the CV4 threads and happened on ward's post regarding adding some compression on the way in, which got me to thinking about also getting something like an LA-610 (although he seems to recommend putting an 1176 before the LA-2A), which would never be possible with the 610 were I ever to pick up something like a Warm 76. Also, if I got the 610, I probably couldn't afford the mic mod. Still, I really like the idea of the UA piece because I'm not an engineer, but I think I could dial in something pretty respectable given how simple it looks. Most places I read not to compress on the way in, but nobody here blinks an eye when it's suggested.
Anyway - Looking to stay below $3000 - and would love to stay below $2000 (just get the mic and be done with it.) Thanks for your thoughts..
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 8, 2014 14:24:15 GMT -6
Hey man - welcome! When I have a little time, I'll dig into the recordings and post more, but my first thought is this...Consider buying the CV3 and doing the MicRehab thing. I've heard some of the stuff Shannon has done with the CV3 and I'm not sure it doesn't sound better than the CV4. It's got a miniature tube in it - ala AC701...Anyway, that would save you about $500...
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Post by Guitar on Nov 8, 2014 14:28:58 GMT -6
any of the standard classics, or their modern clones, would be a safe place to start, and hopefully the heart of a truly professional mic locker, not just for voice
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Post by tonycamphd on Nov 8, 2014 15:12:44 GMT -6
welcome to the forum M57! I have a pair of AT4033's, and i have to say this is the first time i've heard someone call them dark/muddy, i consider mine to be bright and crisp, not exactly open, but not exactly pinched...? That said, if there is nothing wrong with your 4033 and that is the way your hearing them, i'd look into something in the elam flavor, your vox on the above tracks appear a bit strident in the transients on my monitors, after having much listening experience with shannons modded CV4(i don't own one, but i have been delivered many great sounding tracks recorded with one), it is amazing for the $, i think it would work very well for the voice i'm hearing on your tracks, not to mention Shan will listen to those tracks and tweak the capsule perfectly for your voice.
So my recommendation for a relatively affordable tracking chain from what i heard above would be Elam 251 type/CV4 mod, Jim Williams high speed pre amp, and a Jim Williams modded aphex 651 compressor, this would give you a warm, wide open sparkle on the above style tracks IMO.
let us know how you go.
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Post by M57 on Nov 8, 2014 15:48:34 GMT -6
welcome to the forum M57! I have a pair of AT4033's, and i have to say this is the first time i've heard someone call them dark/muddy, i consider mine to be bright and crisp, not exactly open, but not exactly pinched...? That said, if there is nothing wrong with your 4033 and that is the way your hearing them, i'd look into something in the elam flavor, your vox on the above tracks appear a bit strident in the transients on my monitors, after having much listening experience with shannons modded CV4(i don't own one, but i have been delivered many great sounding tracks recorded with one), it is amazing for the $, i think it would work very well for the voice i'm hearing on your tracks, not to mention Shan will listen to those tracks and tweak the capsule perfectly for your voice. So my recommendation for a relatively affordable tracking chain from what i heard above would be Elam 251 type/CV4 mod, Jim Williams high speed pre amp, and a Jim Williams modded aphex 651 compressor, this would give you a warm, wide open sparkle on the above style tracks IMO. let us know how you go. Tony, thanks for the suggestions! Yeah the 4033's sound thicker/slower (I'm trying different adjectives here), but in comparison to the NT1-A, which is so bright. I prefer the brightness, but probably because I wasn't paying attention while tracking, the sibilance on the first track is annoying ..and the nasal sound (~1kish?) is bothersome on the second. I'm guessing I could have played more with the mic position for the former. Unfortunately, I tend to set up and sing. Re: the Jim Williams - I've never heard of these pieces. Doing the research they seem on the esoteric side. The man is all about clean ..and truth. I just don't know that I'm that good. I'm thinking a little 'color' and 'truthiness' might be what the doctor recommends. All joking aside - the "Audio Upgrades" web-site looks unmaintained, not to mention it looks like a purchase or two in that direction would take me above my budget. One thing to bear in mind is (and unless someone here knows otherwise) I'm pretty sure the line inputs on the Focusright go through their pre-amps, which I'm guessing would make the purchase of any fast/clean outboard mic-pre somewhat of a waste of money. The only reason I can think of to get one would be expressly for the purpose of putting some warmth and/or compression in the chain - hence the UA piece. -Mark |
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Post by M57 on Nov 8, 2014 15:57:13 GMT -6
Hey man - welcome! When I have a little time, I'll dig into the recordings and post more, but my first thought is this...Consider buying the CV3 and doing the MicRehab thing. I've heard some of the stuff Shannon has done with the CV3 and I'm not sure it doesn't sound better than the CV4. It's got a miniature tube in it - ala AC701...Anyway, that would save you about $500... Thanks for your thoughts. Here's an extra question to ponder while listening. If I decided NOT to go with any mods, would you recommend the 3 or the 4? ..and even though it appears I've stumbled on the Miktek fan club, are there any other mics that any you of would consider pulling out of your lockers if I walked into your studios? (..say under $2000) |
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,099 
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Post by ericn on Nov 8, 2014 18:37:32 GMT -6
Welcome Man!
OK first bit of advice Beg Borrow rent demo every mic you can!
Now for a Good piano sound I want a stereo pair and that's going to add to $$ needed!
Everything I have heard of our own Shannon's mods has been excellent as have all reports of his service. I might in your case if your going to take the mod route take some time and Talk to the man himself, he seams like a decent guy and let him give you his take !
Now I do think you can do much better than the pres in the Safire , but would make the mic/ 's first priority and then maybe a Warm 76 for an inexpensive 1176 sound, I want to put a pair next to my Purple MC76!
On the mic front I do Know of a pair of Used AT4050s at a nice price I keep thinking about jumping on (PM if you want to know more).
Once again welcome to the ireverant , comic , informative world of RGO!
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Post by Guitar on Nov 9, 2014 9:59:28 GMT -6
For what it's worth I sold all of my Audio-Technica microphones because of what you described, that thicker slower sound or however you say it. I got tired of it after a while and wanted more classic clarity, which I have found in different brands.
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Post by M57 on Nov 9, 2014 10:44:37 GMT -6
Hey Eric - Thanks for responding..
I know this is good advice. I live in a more rural area and don't really know the scene ..and I don't get around that much. I doubt there are many CV3's or 4's I could try in the Boston/Providence area.
So you're saying my matched NT5s are not up to the task? I don't know that I will be able to afford an upgrade in that area. The vocal chain is where I'm thinking I should be investing. That said, I'm determined to give things on the piano end my best shot before giving up and getting a good virtual piano. I could move the B. Grand back into the house. Besides, even if I can get a good sound, I'm wondering how much I'll miss being able to edit the tracks a la piano roll.
The thought that he would even consider listening to a track or two and make a mod with that in mind makes it hard to consider other alternative. I'm thinking I could buy the CV3 or CV4, lay down a few tracks - and then If I decide to go for the mod, send the mic along with the tracks for his consideration.
I need to find out if there's a way to get signal into the Saffire without going through its pres. The DBX has a spdif output, but that doesn't help me if I want to put an 1176ish piece in the way. Do I maybe need an A/D converter and then going in through one of those other holes in the back of the thing?? The Saffire also has 'optical' ports, ..whatever they are.??
I'm already likin' it here.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Nov 9, 2014 10:58:08 GMT -6
Hey Eric - Thanks for responding.. I know this is good advice. I live in a more rural area and don't really know the scene ..and I don't get around that much. I doubt there are many CV3's or 4's I could try in the Boston/Providence area. So you're saying my matched NT5s are not up to the task? I don't know that I will be able to afford an upgrade in that area. The vocal chain is where I'm thinking I should be investing. That said, I'm determined to give things on the piano end my best shot before giving up and getting a good virtual piano. I could move the B. Grand back into the house. Besides, even if I can get a good sound, I'm wondering how much I'll miss being able to edit the tracks a la piano roll. The thought that he would even consider listening to a track or two and make a mod with that in mind makes it hard to consider other alternative. I'm thinking I could buy the CV3 or CV4, lay down a few tracks - and then If I decide to go for the mod, send the mic along with the tracks for his consideration. I need to find out if there's a way to get signal into the Saffire without going through its pres. The DBX has a spdif output, but that doesn't help me if I want to put an 1176ish piece in the way. Do I maybe need an A/D converter and then going in through one of those other holes in the back of the thing?? The Saffire also has 'optical' ports, ..whatever they are.?? I'm already likin' it here. Where ya at? I live in Uxbridge and work in Woonsicket and Providence. |
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Post by M57 on Nov 9, 2014 11:02:53 GMT -6
Hi J,
I just moved to Raynham MA, It's pretty far from everywhere, but at least I'm right off 495.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Nov 9, 2014 11:19:54 GMT -6
Hi J, I just moved to Raynham MA, It's pretty far from everywhere, but at least I'm right off 495. I'll shoot you a PM when I get some time tomorrow. |
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Post by sopwith on Nov 9, 2014 14:51:23 GMT -6
As someone who has a CV4 on order to be sent directly to Shannon, definitely talk to him about what you're looking for in the character of the mic. Also be aware that the CV4 has been on backorder since about June, so there are lots of existing orders for them to work through once they start shipping. Might not be a bad idea to go with the CV3 and get it Rehab'd if you need something in the near future.
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Post by M57 on Nov 9, 2014 14:57:03 GMT -6
Yeah - I've noticed the backorder situation.. I'm in no rush. Of course the sales people are suggesting I get in line and place my order now. Hard to tell if it's just because they want to close the deal. I'm not good at standing in line.
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Post by sopwith on Nov 9, 2014 15:06:05 GMT -6
Yeah - I've noticed the backorder situation.. I'm in no rush. Of course the sales people are suggesting I get in line and place my order now. Hard to tell if it's just because they want to close the deal. I'm not good at standing in line. Ha, same! My order is in with Pepper in Nashville, he's been great about updating me but obviously it's out of his hands. Last I heard from him they were only waiting on the grilles and then they could start shipping some mics. From what I've gathered, there are probably 100 orders to be filled from the biggest retailers. If it's more than another month I'm going to have to go with something else. |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Nov 10, 2014 12:15:31 GMT -6
Hey Man, I just got the opportunity to take a listen. Your voice and performance are both nice, which is 3/4 of the battle right there, so you're at least in a good place.  Personally, I would aim towards a vocal mic upgrade first, preamps second, and the SDC's last. I would skip a hardware compressor all together if I were in your position, especially if you're more of a "set up and sing" fellow than engineer. How is your plugin situation? You can get some pretty decent plugs for fair prices that would provide more budget for front end upgrades and prevent you from doing any accidental damage on the way in. I haven't used the LA-610, but have used the 610 pre on it's own. It's not a pre that I'd purchase as my one and only go to preamp, especially if you prefer faster transients and brighter sounds. If you're micing piano and classical guitar (both stereo I assume), I would try to find a good deal on a used stereo preamp. Maybe a Grace ( stereo version on eBay) would a good fit? I'm sure a lot of guys would say they're cold, but I've used them and dug them. Nice clarity and definition to my ears. I have a Nightpro PreQ3 that I think would also be a good fit, but they're pretty hard to come by. As for mics, I'm with ericn. Since you're recording yourself, you need to get your hands on some mics and see what fits your voice. Maybe try to book a few hours at a local studio? Not sure what the rates would be for a few hours or who around has a great selection though. If you're interested in hearing my BeesNeez, we could probably meet up at your place sometime to give it a go. I should be able to get my hands on an 87ai too. ben is local with a nice collection too...maybe we could all get together for some shooting and beers? |
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,099
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Post by ericn on Nov 10, 2014 13:06:20 GMT -6
Here's the thing The Rodes are not a bad pair of SDCs it's just that the Rodes like a lot of modern SDCs were designed to for a rock and roll uhber close acoustics .
Old School SM81s or C451 or even 391s or better c460s are capable of a much less hyped more real piano tone !
Shop used if you don't like it you can come close to breaking even !
Also good piano is about the room!
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Post by ben on Nov 10, 2014 13:38:01 GMT -6
I should be able to get my hands on an 87ai too. ben is local with a nice collection too...maybe we could all get together for some shooting and beers? I'm down and I also have an 87ai. |
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Post by M57 on Nov 10, 2014 14:46:34 GMT -6
Thanks guys - I've PM'd you both.
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