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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 5, 2014 9:39:18 GMT -6
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 5, 2014 9:39:39 GMT -6
Pic big enough for you guys?
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Post by svart on Nov 5, 2014 10:11:57 GMT -6
Not big enough. I can't see individual pixels yet.
So it's essentially Neve's answer to the SSL AWS9xx series?
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Post by Ward on Nov 5, 2014 10:54:20 GMT -6
This is Neve's answer to every question being asked now.
Neve Warmth, natural compression, musical EQ, routing, summ mixing, analog signal path PLUS a GUI that functions AS an actual console (not emulate or cheat or approximate) - true synergy in a mixed environment. And it can expanded to 32 in-line channels with 64 inputs?
But... it doesn't sound like an SSL - which depending on ears sounds like either:
1. Hard-limiting crunch compression or
2. Digital distortion you used to get back in 95 overloading a 16 bit DAT machine.
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Post by mdmitch2 on Nov 5, 2014 11:59:05 GMT -6
$50k for an 8 channel w/8 Mic Pre/EQ/Dyn, and 32 faders for DAW control, plus touch screen. Seems like it might appeal to the same people as the SSL matrix, except is has double the faders and 8 full channels of neve goodness. Seems like a relatively good value... plus is expandable, unlike the Matrix.
The EQ and Dynamics are set up a like a digital console (one set of endless rotary controls for everything, with the visuals on the touchscreen). But all analog signal path. Kinda funky, but it would certainly save on cost and reduce the footprint massively, so yeah.... if I had 50k, this might be the ticket. Of course, I don't and won't, but it's fun to imagine.
Also, the 88rs eq can be switched to 1084 as an upgrade. I just wonder how you can fit 8 1084 eqs on a 'card' that slides in the back. Gotta be some sonic compromises happening.
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Post by svart on Nov 5, 2014 12:14:27 GMT -6
Yeah, the pictures are deceptive. Apparently that comes with only 8 of the modules and faders. It's also unknowns what style of preamp and only "88R" EQ.
I'm constantly using all 24 of my channels on my mixer and even summing a lot of channels ITB before going to the console. 8 channels for 50K would never do.
A used AWS for 50K would give me everything at once. Hell, I see 24-60ch SSL4Ks on ebay for 20-50K all the time.. (crunchy sound or not, they are still the most popular for big boy mixing..)
I'd say that neve makes good stuff but this is too pricey for any smaller studio to afford once you factor in all the "expansion" you need to do to make it usable.
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Post by mdmitch2 on Nov 5, 2014 12:17:52 GMT -6
The base model does have all 32 faders for Daw control, but only 16 inputs for summing (2 per channel). But yeah, compared to the used market, you could get a lot more for your money with a used SSL.
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Nov 5, 2014 12:37:37 GMT -6
That's just it, the completion is the used market where $50k buys one hell of a lot these days. I do like the concept of digitally controlled analog, but the Achilles heal is when these become yesterday's news, as the owner of a digitally controlled board I have learned you do need a tech who really knows his patient.
At this price a used 4k or maybe AWS looks really tempting!
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Post by svart on Nov 5, 2014 13:08:05 GMT -6
The base model does have all 32 faders for Daw control, but only 16 inputs for summing (2 per channel). But yeah, compared to the used market, you could get a lot more for your money with a used SSL. You sure about that? Sentences like these make me think that the base 8 channel system doesn't have 32 faders.. "And it's modular, meaning you don't have to wait until you can afford the full 32-fader system to become a Neve-equipped studio" "Want more? As your business expands (as it surely will – just mention our name) so can your Genesys Black, all the way up to a 32-fader, 64-input powerhouse" Of course their literature is the most vague of vague, probably so people don't die of sticker shock right away.. Nowhere does it actually say what you get, other than the general overview points. |
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Post by mdmitch2 on Nov 5, 2014 13:32:22 GMT -6
The base model does have all 32 faders for Daw control, but only 16 inputs for summing (2 per channel). But yeah, compared to the used market, you could get a lot more for your money with a used SSL. You sure about that? Sentences like these make me think that the base 8 channel system doesn't have 32 faders.. "And it's modular, meaning you don't have to wait until you can afford the full 32-fader system to become a Neve-equipped studio" "Want more? As your business expands (as it surely will – just mention our name) so can your Genesys Black, all the way up to a 32-fader, 64-input powerhouse" Of course their literature is the most vague of vague, probably so people don't die of sticker shock right away.. Nowhere does it actually say what you get, other than the general overview points. I see what you mean --but the description in vintage king says that all 32 come with the 8 channel system: Thirty-two faders provide a flexible workflow You'll find 32 motorized faders on the Neve Genesys Black, each ready to work the way you need it to. When you're tracking, you can use the eight faders on the left to control your inputs, the sixteen in the middle to make DAW adjustments, and the eight on the right for all your aux duties. Then, when you're ready to get your hands on your mix, you can switch the Neve Genesys Black into DAW mode, spreading 32 channels across the 32 faders that, yes, are fully DAW-automated. There must be a lot more possible configurations than what vintage King has listed, or their descriptions are just wrong. |
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Post by Henry_Berg on Nov 6, 2014 10:58:27 GMT -6
As far as I know, the Black isn't yet 100% finished, just as it happened when they originally launched the Genesys.
For $50K, you get an 8ch desk with 8 "neve preamps" (without transformers), and 8 "88-style" EQ. That's it.
Despite having 32 faders, the "32 channels to mix" are: the main 8ch; the secondary line inputs of those main chs; the 8busses, which can accept external inputs; the 4 stereo fx returns. There you have it, 32 inputs.
The touch TFT isn't very responsible for truly precision stuff, and the DAW control is quite limited compared to other alternatives. But the Monitoring section is great. Encore automation is also dropped, you have to rely on DAW automation.
I don't see the point of this new console, unless you add at least another 8ch (there's no point in having 8 busses with just 8 inputs), for a basic main 16 channels (plus secondary line input), but then you have to spend a lot more money and, as the EQ and (optional) Dynamics are controlled with the four knobs in the master section, you'll have to roll the chair all over non stop.
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Post by swurveman on Nov 6, 2014 11:30:28 GMT -6
I don't understand console design, but why doesn't someone produce an automated 32 channel (with EQ and inserts) 8 bus (with EQ and inserts) console that has monitor control? I think there are a lot of people who have already invested in hardware preamps/compressors/FX who are looking to mix all analogue in a compact mixing format, but I could be wrong.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Nov 6, 2014 11:45:41 GMT -6
I don't understand console design, but why doesn't someone produce an automated 32 channel (with EQ and inserts) 8 bus (with EQ and inserts) console that has monitor control? I think there are a lot of people who have already invested in hardware preamps/compressors/FX who are looking to mix all analogue in a compact mixing format, but I could be wrong. Your answer is simply this $$$ good sounding automaton isn't cheap! |
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Post by swurveman on Nov 6, 2014 12:30:58 GMT -6
I don't understand console design, but why doesn't someone produce an automated 32 channel (with EQ and inserts) 8 bus (with EQ and inserts) console that has monitor control? I think there are a lot of people who have already invested in hardware preamps/compressors/FX who are looking to mix all analogue in a compact mixing format, but I could be wrong. Your answer is simply this $$$ good sounding automaton isn't cheap! Yet, you can get 32 touch-sensitive 100 mm long throw motorized faders in an Avid Mix for around $4,800.00. The marketing strategy of these console makers has them investing money into screens and recall-convenience. I don't think they're gonna win that battle, because its simpler and much cheaper staying ITB and using hardware inserts and add ons like the Artist mix , but I could be wrong. |
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Post by RicFoxx on Nov 6, 2014 13:56:25 GMT -6
As far as I know, the Black isn't yet 100% finished, just as it happened when they originally launched the Genesys. For $50K, you get an 8ch desk with 8 "neve preamps" (without transformers), and 8 "88-style" EQ. That's it. Despite having 32 faders, the "32 channels to mix" are: the main 8ch; the secondary line inputs of those main chs; the 8busses, which can accept external inputs; the 4 stereo fx returns. There you have it, 32 inputs. The touch TFT isn't very responsible for truly precision stuff, and the DAW control is quite limited compared to other alternatives. But the Monitoring section is great. Encore automation is also dropped, you have to rely on DAW automation. I don't see the point of this new console, unless you add at least another 8ch (there's no point in having 8 busses with just 8 inputs), for a basic main 16 channels (plus secondary line input), but then you have to spend a lot more money and, as the EQ and (optional) Dynamics are controlled with the four knobs in the master section, you'll have to roll the chair all over non stop. Welcome to the forum...this is a cool place!!! |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Nov 6, 2014 14:00:33 GMT -6
Your answer is simply this $$$ good sounding automaton isn't cheap! Yet, you can get 32 touch-sensitive 100 mm long throw motorized faders in an Avid Mix for around $4,800.00. The marketing strategy of these console makers has them investing money into screens and recall-convenience. I don't think they're gonna win that battle, because its simpler and much cheaper staying ITB and using hardware inserts and add ons like the Artist mix , but I could be wrong. [/ Moving faders that are used for digital are cheap, plus you can build there lack of acurrate tweaking into the soft ware At $100ea for entry level decent quantity pricing for something worthy of audio we are 3/4 of the way to your example price! The Idea of tying automation to the DAW means the investment of keeping up with the whims of all the major players in the DAW world ! Many of tried but no one as of yet had managed to produce a quality moving fader automation system , The closest thing is the Allen and Heath and that's VCA based ! Hey I have a Autimated Diigitally controlled Analogue console With VCA Automation total recall and Dynamics , cost me $750 used , I have the new invoice $13k and you could not do it for less today! |
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Post by swurveman on Nov 10, 2014 10:05:57 GMT -6
For $50K, you get an 8ch desk with 8 "neve preamps" (without transformers), and 8 "88-style" EQ. That's it. Despite having 32 faders, the "32 channels to mix" are: the main 8ch; the secondary line inputs of those main chs; the 8busses, which can accept external inputs; the 4 stereo fx returns. There you have it, 32 inputs. I don't see the point of this new console, unless you add at least another 8ch ( there's no point in having 8 busses with just 8 inputs), for a basic main 16 channels (plus secondary line input), but then you have to spend a lot more money and, as the EQ and (optional) Dynamics are controlled with the four knobs in the master section, you'll have to roll the chair all over non stop. I'm trying to understand how this console could emulate what I do with my hybrid mixing setup, but I don't know enough about console signal routing. So, if anybody could help me I'd appreciate it. Typically, I compress the bass and main vocal on individual channels, and often compress a mono group of the kick and snare top and bottom mics. So, could I send 6 outs from my DAW to the 8 main channels and via the console compress, EQ and monitor the post eq/compression signal? Additionally, I typically group Instrument, Drums and BK Vox itb and typically use a stereo compressor for these three stereo channels, which represent 8 outputs to a console. Can I take these 8 outputs to this console and compress them via the console, all the while being able to monitor the post compression sound? Thanks to anybody who can provide some insight. |
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