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Post by svart on Nov 3, 2014 10:08:36 GMT -6
I've been reading a lot about engineers/producers and how they do things, specifically get certain tones on certain records.
I've never been able to obtain those certain tones on things like cymbals.
Anyway, it seems that a lot more big named engineers and/or producers use lots of mics on overheads, using them a lot closer to the cymbals than I expected too.
Some use a mic PER cymbal, some use a mic for every two cymbals less than two feet away.
Do any of you guys do this?
I guess I'm asking if I should get another KM184 and place them closer to the cymbals. I primarily use the overheads for cymbals anyway. I would end up with 3 overheads about 1.5ft above 6 cymbals.
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Post by unit7 on Nov 3, 2014 10:29:21 GMT -6
My default is 2 condensers in ORTF and one mono ribbon in center. Gives some flexibility in tone, in addition to eq. Mostly not a fan of close micing so never tried on cymbals, but I've seen that too.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Nov 3, 2014 11:28:57 GMT -6
I've been reading a lot about engineers/producers and how they do things, specifically get certain tones on certain records. I've never been able to obtain those certain tones on things like cymbals. Anyway, it seems that a lot more big named engineers and/or producers use lots of mics on overheads, using them a lot closer to the cymbals than I expected too. Some use a mic PER cymbal, some use a mic for every two cymbals less than two feet away. Do any of you guys do this? I guess I'm asking if I should get another KM184 and place them closer to the cymbals. I primarily use the overheads for cymbals anyway. I would end up with 3 overheads about 1.5ft above 6 cymbals. Seems like a lot of metal cats do that stuff. I haven't done it, but have considered. drumrec, gets some KILLER sounds. Maybe he can chime in. |
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Post by svart on Nov 3, 2014 13:58:03 GMT -6
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,099 
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Post by ericn on Nov 3, 2014 14:12:06 GMT -6
The question I have is how often do they bring these up at mix?
I know a bunch of guys who mic and record just about everything, but 95% of the time come mix time 1/2 of these are muted, I understand the mentality from the little bit of work I have done doing soundtrack work where it was mic everything, easier to bring up a fader in that situation then pay for more tracking time, but with a simple drum set...
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Post by sinasoid on Nov 3, 2014 14:32:32 GMT -6
I think the sentiment is the same as micing a hi-hat. Makes it much easier to get the exact cymbal sound you want.
I know with metal recordings, the room sound is not nearly as important as the transients and punch of each hit, hence close mics on everything, including cymbals.
I've always been a proponent of the two overheads and two room mic approach to recording drums, using the close mics as nothing more than an enhancement of the OH and room mics. 'Tis only a matter of taste and what kind of sound you need.
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Post by svart on Nov 3, 2014 15:14:27 GMT -6
I typically don't have too much trouble getting good "general" overhead tones. The problem is really because I'm pretty anal when it comes to tones and I strive to have "perfect" tones. The next step seems to be going for more close mics for that reason, that's all.
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Post by tonycamphd on Nov 3, 2014 16:12:05 GMT -6
My 2 cents, and of course JMO, A good OH cymbal sound is a function of great projection from some very well tuned drums IME, so i guess I come from a completely opposite perspective, i've never really like the sound coming from a close mic on it's own, i think a close/plurality's of overhead mics is an invitation to a wobbly, phasey wash of un naturalness(even with sdc's), it will cause problems and they will be compounded with the use of room mics and compression.
Well tuned/played drums sound great in any of the traditional overhead arrays, flabby/loose/low tuned drums do not, they will not project at all, no matter how good the player, leaving the cymbals to dominate the overheads no matter where you put them, well tuned drums(much higher than one might think) jump out into the overheads, which is everything, (especially when it's time to compress)
A great drummer in the presence of these quality drum conditions, will have the drums coming through the overheads louder than the cymbals, and the cymbal sound about takes care of itself.
In regard to the popular low tuning misconception, big sounding drums are a function of large diameter, and proper tuning, not depth of shell, or tuning loose, every drum has its own tuning range, the wider the better of course, and IMO you don't tune drums to a room, you move well tuned drums within a room until you find a spot where they sound best, this is my world.
as always, YMMV,
I hope this helps a little, and makes sense.
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Nov 3, 2014 18:04:16 GMT -6
Tune the Drums? What ? You tune drums?
How many times have I asked somebody complaining about their drum sound and heard the above?
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Post by wiz on Nov 3, 2014 18:15:49 GMT -6
My 2 cents, and of course JMO, A good OH cymbal sound is a function of great projection from some very well tuned drums IME, so i guess I come from a completely opposite perspective, i've never really like the sound coming from a close mic on it's own, i think a close/plurality's of overhead mics is an invitation to a wobbly, phasey wash of un naturalness(even with sdc's), it will cause problems and they will be compounded with the use of room mics and compression. Well tuned/played drums sound great in any of the traditional overhead arrays, flabby/loose/low tuned drums do not, they will not project at all, no matter how good the player, leaving the cymbals to dominate the overheads no matter where you put them, well tuned drums(much higher than one might think) jump out into the overheads, which is everything, (especially when it's time to compress) A great drummer in the presence of these quality drum conditions, will have the drums coming through the overheads louder than the cymbals, and the cymbal sound about takes care of itself. In regard to the popular low tuning misconception, big sounding drums are a function of large diameter, and proper tuning, not depth of shell, or tuning loose, every drum has its own tuning range, the wider the better of course, and IMO you don't tune drums to a room, you move well tuned drums within a room until you find a spot where they sound best, this is my world. as always, YMMV, I hope this helps a little, and makes sense. Moving the drums within the room.... this!!!!!!! its staggering what 20 mins wondering around the room with a floor tom will tell you. This and tuning, man when someone who knows how to tune drums , brings out the best in a drum, then you put that in the right spot.... then all you have to do is find someone to play them... cheers Wiz |
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Post by Ward on Nov 4, 2014 21:34:20 GMT -6
Wide kit set-up with a wider array of cymbals, I will use LCR overheads (ABC config), ride cymbal mic as well... plus two room mics.
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Post by Randge on Nov 6, 2014 0:10:57 GMT -6
I use an SF-12 Royer just above the drummers right ear catching what he/she are hearing and two MA-201's spread pretty far apart with the floor tom (L facing the drums)side up close to the toms and the other one equally to the far right and in front of the kit crossing in stereo long ways. I have been doing it for quite a while and found a vid recently of Massenberg choosing to use a very similar overhead stereo micing technique. I only thought I was on to something of my very own.
R
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Post by lpedrum on Nov 6, 2014 9:48:14 GMT -6
The only times I've ever miked a ride cymbal is when recording dense rock music and it's really important to the song that the ride cut through. It just gives you a little more control to boost it if needed. Sonically though I don't there's really a benefit to close miking a cymbal--but rules are meant to be broken!
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Post by drumrec on Nov 10, 2014 23:06:39 GMT -6
I find it very difficult to close mic the cymbals, it becomes so unnatural sound in my opinion. But I always have several options to OH. Nowadays, I have standing two Coles 4038 just behind the neck. Spaced pair OH AKG and one mono mic in the middle Korby KAT U67. Then you can play around in the mix what you want! Many use OH mostly for the cymbals. But I'm starting to use them more for the body of the whole drum sound (of course depending what genre it is) Especially with Coles mics, just a thought! But the funny part there is no right or wrong when it comes to recording the drums. Your ears are your Maestro svart  King Regards H |
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