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Post by lpedrum on Oct 16, 2014 14:18:49 GMT -6
In a previous thread I mentioned that I was waiting to see if the Mac Mini would get an upgrade and it did today. (see the Apple site for specs) My thought is that it might be plenty powerful enough to connect with a new TB interface such as an Apollo or the new Ensemble. Maxed out the new Mini would run around $1500 give or take. Of course every answer leads to a new question when it comes to the moving target of a converter/computer/software/OS configuration. I chatted online with Apple today and thought some of you might be interested in my Q and A with them. I'm not recommending anything here--I'm just on a fact finding mission.
When I asked about whether I could run Maverick on the new Mac Mini---
First, it comes with OS X Yosemite, so it won't be running OS X 10.9 Mavericks. We don't support downgrading so it won't be something that we have details to in terms of it being possible.
When I pressed the question a bit explaining that no music software or interfaces yet runs on Yosemite, he responded--
I would hold off and not buy the new Mac mini based on what you're needing. The software isn't going to work for you and I understand that is vital.
When I asked if the new Mini still held two drives as the old model did---
As for the hard drives, I am not seeing anything saying it will support the Dual hard drives that it did on the last model. Before we have published documentation about it but that is no longer the case.
When I asked if the other TB port (there are two) connected to an external drive would work well for my recording needs--
Totally, you're going to have full capabilities with that port. It is a Thunderbolt 2 Port, so using a Thunderbolt Drive would be as good as it gets in terms of not having internal and using external .
When I asked how quiet the new Fusion operating drive is---
Fusion is a great compromise between traditional and SSD. However, it won't be as quiet as an SSD. It is quiet just not as quiet.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Oct 16, 2014 15:15:28 GMT -6
I recently grabbed the Retina Macbook Pro. Quad Core i7, 16GB RAM, 512GB HD for about $2300.
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Post by RicFoxx on Oct 16, 2014 16:07:02 GMT -6
Just pick up the Quad Core I7 mini used and put a SSD and 16GB's of RAM in it and your good. Maybe people were not buying the new Mac Pro cause these are great little machines for Pro Audio!!!
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Post by jeromemason on Oct 16, 2014 16:23:02 GMT -6
I just bought a new iMac to replace the one I've used for 3 years. The only reason I even replaced it was because my old one didn't have Thunderbolt. I've found the mini's and iMacs work great as long as you put 16GB of ram in them. SSD makes it even faster. I don't see any reason for a Mac Pro anymore, maybe if you've got a massive rig, but by putting Thunderbolt in the iMacs and mac minis changed the game a bit, especially the new ones with TB 2.0. You're talking about 20gbps of transfer from a cable.... that's crazy.
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Post by lpedrum on Oct 16, 2014 18:23:20 GMT -6
Just pick up the Quad Core I7 mini used and put a SSD and 16GB's of RAM in it and your good. Maybe people were not buying the new Mac Pro cause these are great little machines for Pro Audio!!! I may end up doing that. Still, unless I'm missing something here its a shame that the new Mini upgrade is actually a downgrade in significant ways. |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Oct 16, 2014 18:27:56 GMT -6
Apple is making it harder and harder to upgrade. I got my 13" MacBook Pro 3 years ago. Ended up upgrading to 16GB RAM via Crucial, switched over to a SSD a few months after grabbing it, then pulled the CD drive out and added a second HD, maybe a year later. The new Retina MacBook's and iMacs at least have soldered in RAM that's not upgradable. No CD drive to pull out either. They're out to get us!
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Post by jeromemason on Oct 16, 2014 20:17:30 GMT -6
Apple is making it harder and harder to upgrade. I got my 13" MacBook Pro 3 years ago. Ended up upgrading to 16GB RAM via Crucial, switched over to a SSD a few months after grabbing it, then pulled the CD drive out and added a second HD, maybe a year later. The new Retina MacBook's and iMacs at least have soldered in RAM that's not upgradable. No CD drive to pull out either. They're out to get us! Damn, I'm glad you told me about the soldered ram because I almost put down $150 to go to 16gb on my new iMac. I also got a new Macbook retina and I'm impressed by how fast both machines are. In my 2012 macbook I put a SSD in it and gave it to my wife and I was amazed at how much faster that laptop was after. |
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Post by formatcyes on Oct 16, 2014 23:18:19 GMT -6
I have a mini 2011 works great. Going to put SSD in soon. yes the mini upgrade would be great for audio...
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 17, 2014 0:05:21 GMT -6
I think the best deal in macs is the march 2009 or later nehalem dual quad mac pro, it can be had for cheap, and easily and cheaply be put to the best specs mac has to offer on their 2014 macpro trashcan, including the 5,1 firmware of course.
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Post by lpedrum on Oct 17, 2014 1:04:02 GMT -6
Just pick up the Quad Core I7 mini used and put a SSD and 16GB's of RAM in it and your good. Maybe people were not buying the new Mac Pro cause these are great little machines for Pro Audio!!! Later that day….I just did exactly that. The more I read about the new Mac Mini the less impressed I was. And over at that "other site"…let's just say there are a lot of musicians very unhappy with Apple today. Anyway, I got a 2012 Quad core i7, 16GB Mac Mini on ebay brand new with warranty for a fair price. It has Thunderbolt, USBs, and a firewire port, which for me will still come in handy for a while. I'll be putting a SSD in it soon too. Thanks for Ric and others on this thread that confirmed that the Mac Mini is a great little machine for recording. It lit a fire under me to get this done. |
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Post by levon on Oct 17, 2014 1:58:26 GMT -6
Just pick up the Quad Core I7 mini used and put a SSD and 16GB's of RAM in it and your good. Maybe people were not buying the new Mac Pro cause these are great little machines for Pro Audio!!! Later that day….I just did exactly that. The more I read about the new Mac Mini the less impressed I was. And over at that "other site"…let's just say there are a lot of musicians very unhappy with Apple today. Let's just say... that's an endorsement and a major reason for going with Apple. |
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Post by watchtower on Oct 17, 2014 8:17:29 GMT -6
Apple is making it harder and harder to upgrade. I got my 13" MacBook Pro 3 years ago. Ended up upgrading to 16GB RAM via Crucial, switched over to a SSD a few months after grabbing it, then pulled the CD drive out and added a second HD, maybe a year later. The new Retina MacBook's and iMacs at least have soldered in RAM that's not upgradable. No CD drive to pull out either. They're out to get us! Damn, I'm glad you told me about the soldered ram because I almost put down $150 to go to 16gb on my new iMac. I also got a new Macbook retina and I'm impressed by how fast both machines are. In my 2012 macbook I put a SSD in it and gave it to my wife and I was amazed at how much faster that laptop was after. It depends whether you have the 27" iMac or the smaller one. 27" has user-replaceable, not soldered, RAM. |
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Post by matt on Oct 17, 2014 8:34:48 GMT -6
IMHO, if the Late 2012 Mini has any weakness it is in the video chip, which is the Intel HD4000. I run two 27" monitors, one out HDMI and the other out T-Bolt. During a busy PT session, video refresh can suffer to the point where both screens sometimes hang for several seconds before updating. Audio playback continues though, so it's mostly just annoying, and I am used to it. But I think some people would not be able to deal with the sluggish response. And while I can't prove it, I have had PT occasionally crash as a result of these hangs. Whether it's a symptom or cause, I am not sure. But my next computer will have one or more video GPUs, running at 4K resolution to a large 4K TV. Just waiting for the 4K spec to mature a bit. Go large, or go home.
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Post by ericn on Oct 17, 2014 10:11:08 GMT -6
The new MAC Pro was the first hint, Apple no longer makes computers Apple would want to work on, It's now a Consumer Company, Jobs had a fit that the Apple Store credit card system was Windows based, imagine if he walked into one of their Data Centers and saw all the generics servers.
I keep saying Its time for The real video and Audio companies to go to a real enterprise OS!
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Post by jcoutu1 on Oct 17, 2014 10:14:26 GMT -6
Damn, I'm glad you told me about the soldered ram because I almost put down $150 to go to 16gb on my new iMac. I also got a new Macbook retina and I'm impressed by how fast both machines are. In my 2012 macbook I put a SSD in it and gave it to my wife and I was amazed at how much faster that laptop was after. It depends whether you have the 27" iMac or the smaller one. 27" has user-replaceable, not soldered, RAM. Good to know. |
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Post by jeromemason on Oct 17, 2014 14:42:27 GMT -6
Damn, I'm glad you told me about the soldered ram because I almost put down $150 to go to 16gb on my new iMac. I also got a new Macbook retina and I'm impressed by how fast both machines are. In my 2012 macbook I put a SSD in it and gave it to my wife and I was amazed at how much faster that laptop was after. It depends whether you have the 27" iMac or the smaller one. 27" has user-replaceable, not soldered, RAM. I have the 21.5 so mine is soldered. It's cool though, I have a friend that is a registered apple tech so I'll get him to do it so my warranty won't void. I'm just glad I didn't go buying that ram and voiding my warranty. Still, with 8GB it handles the biggest sessions I have with ease, I think with thunderbolt now I just don't see reason for folks going the Mac Pro route unless you've got a big rig. A friend of mine runs a digi 003+ and go suckered into a Mac Pro, from the talks he and I have it def wasn't worth the extra 2k he spent for his Comp. |
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Post by watchtower on Oct 17, 2014 18:36:44 GMT -6
Yeah, honestly, I'm working on a 4+ year old Macbook Pro with user-installed 8GB RAM, and the bottleneck is definitely the CPU, not RAM haha. I am semi-considering the new Retina iMac, but it will probably be a few months before any of my software/interfaces are compatible with Yosemite anyway. Also, the idea of a Hackintosh for much cheaper is sort of inspiring, but a bit troubling, as well.
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 17, 2014 18:40:50 GMT -6
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Post by lpedrum on Oct 18, 2014 11:36:57 GMT -6
Have you done this? If so--how is it? I checked out the link pretty thoroughly but saw nothing about upgrading to Thunderbolt--did I miss it? Even though I'm getting a Mac Mini, the idea of not having my beautiful 2010 Mac Pro collect dust is intriguing. |
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 18, 2014 11:56:57 GMT -6
Have you done this? If so--how is it? I checked out the link pretty thoroughly but saw nothing about upgrading to Thunderbolt--did I miss it? Even though I'm getting a Mac Mini, the idea of not having my beautiful 2010 Mac Pro collect dust is intriguing. yes, i have done this, I'm currently running 5,1, i was locked out at 4,1 on my nehalem 2009 dual quad core, which didn't allow for a 6 core cpu upgrade, and faster ram speeds, i have a pair of 2.93 6 cores here on my bench, i still have to install those. If i felt the need to go with thunderbolt(which i don't, as i'm going OTB on most stuff, the reason i did this is more for planned vid stuff), id probably just get one of these, www.nextwarehouse.com/item/?1520173_g10e , i haven't researched this, so it's a bit of an assumption on my part....ok, a total assumption on my part 8) It would be nice if guys could make this work for them, and keep a rather large investment viable for a bunch more years? i find it amazing that i have the potential to ride this year model for another 3-4 years, making it's useful life span 9 years!! wow! Btw, my dual quad 2.66 is geek benching just under 20K, i expect with the install of the faster ram and 6 cores to be a bit higher than 25K!!? i'll report back when i get around to it 8) |
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Post by ericn on Oct 18, 2014 12:08:47 GMT -6
Have you done this? If so--how is it? I checked out the link pretty thoroughly but saw nothing about upgrading to Thunderbolt--did I miss it? Even though I'm getting a Mac Mini, the idea of not having my beautiful 2010 Mac Pro collect dust is intriguing. yes, i have done this, I'm currently running 5,1, i was locked out at 4,1 on my nehalem 2009 dual quad core, which didn't allow for a 6 core cpu upgrade, and faster ram speeds, i have a pair of 2.93 6 cores here on my bench, i still have to install those. If i felt the need to go with thunderbolt(which i don't, as i'm going OTB on most stuff, the reason i did this is more for planned vid stuff), id probably just get one of these, www.nextwarehouse.com/item/?1520173_g10e , i haven't researched this, so it's a bit of an assumption on my part....ok, a total assumption on my part 8) It would be nice if guys could make this work for them, and keep a rather large investment viable for a bunch more years? i find it amazing that i have the potential to ride this year model for another 3-4 years, making it's useful life span 9 years!! wow! Btw, my dual quad 2.66 is geek benching just under 20K, i expect with the install of the faster ram and 6 cores to be a bit higher than 25K!!? i'll report back when i get around to it 8) Granted my first gen Macpro upgraded to quad cores isn't going to be supportted, but it keeps up on geek bench with the macmini I7 server and has those PCie ports! And 4 drive trays ! I think I have less than $900 into it over the last 4-5 years . If I need a newer more powerfull route I shall follow Tone! |
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Post by lpedrum on Oct 18, 2014 13:01:12 GMT -6
Have you done this? If so--how is it? I checked out the link pretty thoroughly but saw nothing about upgrading to Thunderbolt--did I miss it? Even though I'm getting a Mac Mini, the idea of not having my beautiful 2010 Mac Pro collect dust is intriguing. yes, i have done this, I'm currently running 5,1, i was locked out at 4,1 on my nehalem 2009 dual quad core, which didn't allow for a 6 core cpu upgrade, and faster ram speeds, i have a pair of 2.93 6 cores here on my bench, i still have to install those. If i felt the need to go with thunderbolt(which i don't, as i'm going OTB on most stuff, the reason i did this is more for planned vid stuff), id probably just get one of these, www.nextwarehouse.com/item/?1520173_g10e , i haven't researched this, so it's a bit of an assumption on my part....ok, a total assumption on my part 8) It would be nice if guys could make this work for them, and keep a rather large investment viable for a bunch more years? i find it amazing that i have the potential to ride this year model for another 3-4 years, making it's useful life span 9 years!! wow! Btw, my dual quad 2.66 is geek benching just under 20K, i expect with the install of the faster ram and 6 cores to be a bit higher than 25K!!? i'll report back when i get around to it 8) I spite of getting a NOS mac mini, I think some sort of upgrade on my 2010 Mac Pro makes sense. It'd be new territory for me as I haven't gone under the hood of computers much. Re Thunderbolt, I got a quick reply back from Thomas today (author of the blog you linked), and referring to upgrading an old Mac with TB he emailed "No. Impossible. It's a mobo technology the MP does not support." Whether that's the definitive, final answer or just one man's opinion I wouldn't know. |
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 18, 2014 13:28:07 GMT -6
yes, i have done this, I'm currently running 5,1, i was locked out at 4,1 on my nehalem 2009 dual quad core, which didn't allow for a 6 core cpu upgrade, and faster ram speeds, i have a pair of 2.93 6 cores here on my bench, i still have to install those. If i felt the need to go with thunderbolt(which i don't, as i'm going OTB on most stuff, the reason i did this is more for planned vid stuff), id probably just get one of these, www.nextwarehouse.com/item/?1520173_g10e , i haven't researched this, so it's a bit of an assumption on my part....ok, a total assumption on my part 8) It would be nice if guys could make this work for them, and keep a rather large investment viable for a bunch more years? i find it amazing that i have the potential to ride this year model for another 3-4 years, making it's useful life span 9 years!! wow! Btw, my dual quad 2.66 is geek benching just under 20K, i expect with the install of the faster ram and 6 cores to be a bit higher than 25K!!? i'll report back when i get around to it 8) I spite of getting a NOS mac mini, I think some sort of upgrade on my 2010 Mac Pro makes sense. It'd be new territory for me as I haven't gone under the hood of computers much. Re Thunderbolt, I got a quick reply back from Thomas today (author of the blog you linked), and referring to upgrading an old Mac with TB he emailed "No. Impossible. It's a mobo technology the MP does not support." Whether that's the definitive, final answer or just one man's opinion I wouldn't know. really? avid sells those native TB boxes, i wonder if that is the same deal? i cant imagine you could plug one of those cards into a pc and make it work, and not a mac? but that dude knows waaay more than me about this stuff, i guess i'm just happy i don't need it i guess.. As far as working on a mac, it couldn't be easier, they are a serious work of art inside, they go together like finely machined puzzle pieces, a wire nay be seen, i downloaded the repair manual for their techs, it's laid out for 3rd grade reading levels lol, it could not be easier. |
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Post by ericn on Oct 18, 2014 13:34:59 GMT -6
I spite of getting a NOS mac mini, I think some sort of upgrade on my 2010 Mac Pro makes sense. It'd be new territory for me as I haven't gone under the hood of computers much. Re Thunderbolt, I got a quick reply back from Thomas today (author of the blog you linked), and referring to upgrading an old Mac with TB he emailed "No. Impossible. It's a mobo technology the MP does not support." Whether that's the definitive, final answer or just one man's opinion I wouldn't know. really? avid sells those native TB boxes, i wonder if that is the same deal? i cant imagine you could plug one of those cards into a pc and make it work, and not a mac? but that dude knows waaay more than me about this stuff, i guess i'm just happy i don't need it i guess.. As far as working on a mac, it couldn't be easier, they are a serious work of art inside, they go together like finely machined puzzle pieces, a wire nay be seen, i downloaded the repair manual for their techs, it's laid out for 3rd grade reading levels lol, it could not be easier. Easie to work on with the right tools! I had to but the longest small Allen wrenches I have ever seen and they barely worked on mine! So make sure you check exactly what tools you need! Funy part was my Snap Ons were to short and everything at the local well stocked hardware store was to short except the POS ones in the "deal" bin! |
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Post by lpedrum on Oct 18, 2014 13:40:14 GMT -6
I spite of getting a NOS mac mini, I think some sort of upgrade on my 2010 Mac Pro makes sense. It'd be new territory for me as I haven't gone under the hood of computers much. Re Thunderbolt, I got a quick reply back from Thomas today (author of the blog you linked), and referring to upgrading an old Mac with TB he emailed "No. Impossible. It's a mobo technology the MP does not support." Whether that's the definitive, final answer or just one man's opinion I wouldn't know. really? avid sells those native TB boxes, i wonder if that is the same deal? i cant imagine you could plug one of those cards into a pc and make it work, and not a mac? but that dude knows waaay more than me about this stuff, i guess i'm just happy i don't need it i guess.. As far as working on a mac, it couldn't be easier, they are a serious work of art inside, they go together like finely machined puzzle pieces, a wire nay be seen, i downloaded the repair manual for their techs, it's laid out for 3rd grade reading levels lol, it could not be easier. That's good to hear. Did you replace the CPU too? (he says that's trickier.) |
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