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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 14, 2014 15:01:41 GMT -6
Jessie, you can call BLA and ask if they have any of the MKI Pm8's, they'll sell them to you for $500 a pop. popmann is right about running a couple of tracks in mono. I use in's 1-2 for bass and vocals panned up the middle mono, then 3 stems of Drums, Inst, EFX. When you hit the input tranny of that PM8 hard with the vocal and bass I've got to say that it will certainly impress you. If you were to be able to pick up 2 of them at $500 you'd be in 1k at 16 channels and it would be quality summing. I use the transformer out and into the VP28's and it's a perfect combo. The transformers on the PM8 add some really nice harmonic to the lowend while the VP28's give it the mid-range push. So, you could theoretically be in at 1k for summing, and $700 on VP28's and it sounds fantastic. I'm bias, sorry, and I've heard passive summing units that are just simply summing mixers, and compared to having those transformers on the inputs it's not close. Now, it's not Fat Bustard, I mean that's an expensive box and rightly so, the Burl is nice as well, but the PM8 is doing something similar there with adding that warmth. If you want, send me a stem of something and I'll run it through so you can have a listen. The problem with the BLA unit for me, is that I had their EQ and didn't jive with it. It felt overly colored and the build quality felt like crap. I was surprised by such a cheap build from a company who prides itself on doing upgrades. Transformers across the board is appealing though. Im a bla fan, but I knew u were thinking this! get a Soundcraft delta 200 and mod it, it will cost a lot less than a lot of what u mentioned, and it is beyond ridiculous sounding Jes |
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 14, 2014 15:04:32 GMT -6
Nah, I mean that would be a luxury, but for the cost it's not an issue. Basically the best way to set it up is to run a 1k tone through each channel and monitor the outputs, then you can adjust the pan pots to align center, and I can go back 3 months later and it's all the same. I mean, detented pots would be a nice feature but certainly not a deal breaker when sound is considered. Apart from the low end focus of the PM8 and the mid focus of the VP28's, which would you say has the bigger sonic impact on the depth, width, and finished feel of the mix? I know this is very subjective... but I'm just curious which you would pick if you could only have one or the other, since that's where I'm sitting in the short term. IMO, Round tripping ITB tracks through vp28s has a stunningly good effect on things, and the versatility is amazing. |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Oct 14, 2014 15:09:22 GMT -6
The problem with the BLA unit for me, is that I had their EQ and didn't jive with it. It felt overly colored and the build quality felt like crap. I was surprised by such a cheap build from a company who prides itself on doing upgrades. Transformers across the board is appealing though. Im a bla fan, but I knew u were thinking this! get a Soundcraft delta 200 and mod it, it will cost a lot less than a lot of what u mentioned, and it is beyond ridiculous sounding Jes Space is my issue. I'm totally happy with the versatility and sound of my Midas, it just takes up a bunch of room in my limited space. I'm thinking about tearing down and rearranging this week to see if I fit better and can comfortably stick with what I've got. |
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Oct 14, 2014 16:18:39 GMT -6
Like Tony I'm all about a console. Even a small one. If it's got channel cards, you can make anything sound like anything you want. I have an SSL 4000 hiding inside a Soundcraft Ghost skin  |
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 14, 2014 16:43:30 GMT -6
Like Tony I'm all about a console. Even a small one. If it's got channel cards, you can make anything sound like anything you want. I have an SSL 4000 hiding inside a Soundcraft Ghost skin Funny, a lot of guys who've modded the SC's say they have an SSL thing going on, JWilliams says, yeah except with even better simple path specs and a 92 db cross talk spec @10k. Translation=Wiiiiide 8) |
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Post by RicFoxx on Oct 14, 2014 20:23:29 GMT -6
I'm going down the API DSM route. Just bought a 7800 master module and a 8200 and will be adding a couple of more! Love the API sound! Going to add the Serpent Audio SB-4001 to the 2bus and be done with it!
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 14, 2014 20:35:18 GMT -6
RicFoxx momentary OT, how you liking the Zod DI?
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Post by jcoutu1 on Oct 14, 2014 21:07:26 GMT -6
I'm going down the API DSM route. Just bought a 7800 master module and a 8200 and will be adding a couple of more! Love the API sound! Going to add the Serpent Audio SB-4001 to the 2bus and be done with it! You animal. |
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Post by RicFoxx on Oct 14, 2014 21:48:45 GMT -6
I'm going down the API DSM route. Just bought a 7800 master module and a 8200 and will be adding a couple of more! Love the API sound! Going to add the Serpent Audio SB-4001 to the 2bus and be done with it! You animal. I guess we need to start a new support sub-forum for G.A.S. Joking aside, I like the idea of building a legacy console piece by piece. I can also incorporate my existing gear in this type of setup. |
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 14, 2014 21:58:29 GMT -6
I guess we need to start a new support sub-forum for G.A.S. Joking aside, I like the idea of building a legacy console piece by piece. I can also incorporate my existing gear in this type of setup. I was a little worried when i saw your stuff for sale in the classifieds, little did i know you're a MADMAN! lol Cant wait to hear your kickass voice through that rig mon! |
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Post by RicFoxx on Oct 15, 2014 6:42:21 GMT -6
I guess we need to start a new support sub-forum for G.A.S. Joking aside, I like the idea of building a legacy console piece by piece. I can also incorporate my existing gear in this type of setup. I was a little worried when i saw your stuff for sale in the classifieds, little did i know you're a MADMAN! lol Cant wait to hear your kickass voice through that rig mon! Yeah...Im a special type of crazy! Im feeling as good as Ive felt since my 20's...that health scare lit a fire under me. I can't wait to get this all together and start writing and recording again! Hopefully the voice comes back fully... still just taking it easy! |
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Post by ericn on Oct 15, 2014 7:00:35 GMT -6
I guess we need to start a new support sub-forum for G.A.S. Joking aside, I like the idea of building a legacy console piece by piece. I can also incorporate my existing gear in this type of setup. I still can't believe API replaced this great modular system with the Box ! always dreamed of. 32 of 7600 a 7800 and a couple of 8200s ! It's a nice system that with some playing around with can be a great system! |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Oct 15, 2014 7:16:13 GMT -6
I guess we need to start a new support sub-forum for G.A.S. Joking aside, I like the idea of building a legacy console piece by piece. I can also incorporate my existing gear in this type of setup. I still can't believe API replaced this great modular system with the Box ! always dreamed of. 32 of 7600 a 7800 and a couple of 8200s ! It's a nice system that with some playing around with can be a great system! Machines with Magnets in Providence has a similar system... "API DSM 24: custom sidecar with eight 7600 input modules, two 8200 modules and the 7800 master module equaling 24 channels of discrete summing" ...along with a Neotek Elite and a Fat Bustard. Bastards. |
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Post by ericn on Oct 15, 2014 7:19:05 GMT -6
I still can't believe API replaced this great modular system with the Box ! always dreamed of. 32 of 7600 a 7800 and a couple of 8200s ! It's a nice system that with some playing around with can be a great system! Machines with Magnets in Providence has a similar system... "API DSM 24: custom sidecar with eight 7600 input modules, two 8200 modules and the 7800 master module equaling 24 channels of discrete summing" ...along with a Neotek Elite and a Fat Bustard. Bastards. Jess Sounds like a great system, My hunch is somebody figured out with some custom cables you could add 8200s to a 1608! They would rather sell expanders! |
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Post by RicFoxx on Oct 15, 2014 8:47:58 GMT -6
Thats why they discontinued them!!!!
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Post by RicFoxx on Oct 15, 2014 8:49:01 GMT -6
I still can't believe API replaced this great modular system with the Box ! always dreamed of. 32 of 7600 a 7800 and a couple of 8200s ! It's a nice system that with some playing around with can be a great system! Machines with Magnets in Providence has a similar system... "API DSM 24: custom sidecar with eight 7600 input modules, two 8200 modules and the 7800 master module equaling 24 channels of discrete summing" ...along with a Neotek Elite and a Fat Bustard. Bastards. Don't go buying up an 8200 Jesse...I need one more!!!!! |
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Post by jimwilliams on Oct 15, 2014 9:53:12 GMT -6
Neve 8816 innards here. This look any good or junk? I know that nobtwiddler uses one of these. Anyone used the Phoenix Nicerizer or RND 5059?  Those caps and opamps don't sound very good IMO. I'm kind of surprised Neve would go with a baked board like that, at least that's usually what they do when 99% of the board is SMT. But, Tony is right, those caps do not sound good at all. This is what you get these days, bean counter cut and dried surface mount builds. Yes, those caps sound like crap. Adding a small quality film cap would overcome those limitations, but the EE's that design this stuff never think about that. Adding a servo or precision opamps could eliminate some of them. This design is a bit above the usual cut as they did incorporate MELF resistors. |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Oct 15, 2014 10:13:19 GMT -6
Machines with Magnets in Providence has a similar system... "API DSM 24: custom sidecar with eight 7600 input modules, two 8200 modules and the 7800 master module equaling 24 channels of discrete summing" ...along with a Neotek Elite and a Fat Bustard. Bastards. Don't go buying up an 8200 Jesse...I need one more!!!!! I actually almost traded one of my TC Phoenix's and some cash for a DSM system a few months back, but the system was going to cost me too much with the out of pocket, converters, and all of the additional cabling for the TT patchbays and stuff. |
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Post by mdmitch2 on Oct 15, 2014 15:15:42 GMT -6
I'm currently debating full on summing versus 2 buss 'mojo.' I'd love to try both, but summing requires a high amount of set up and cabling, so I'm kinda just hoping to wait it out and try drbill and LTL's silver bullet to see if that works. Drbill has been been making a case for it versus summing over on the 'site which shall not be named.' Based on comments over there, I'm guessing the price will be close to the Burl Vancouver, but of course, the SB includes a stereo pre and EQ, so likely a better value for me.
Spring 2015 is just further off than I would like since I have some current mixes that could use that extra sumthin sumthin. Probably get a pair of vp28's in the meantime, or try running the 2buss through a pair of Lola's that I already have.
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Post by mrholmes on Oct 15, 2014 15:37:36 GMT -6
I'd really love a solid explanation of why my bass if so much more focused when I sum on a cheap analog mixer....that's why when I see people taking about all these stereo stems, I think they are kind missing the benefit. It's the mono busses that is where the biggest difference is--which in turn affects the stereo one by somehow staying in the middle better. It seems like it's a blur at 10&2 kind of thing....the center channel is bigger sounding, so it kind spills outward....eh....I miss my Akai. If that thing would run full track count at 88/96, I'd still be using it.... I can't explain it but every time I mix on my cheap A+H mixer the mix overall sounds more focused, it has more depth and dimension, etc. blah blah…. If I listen to old ITB mixes I switch them off within milliseconds. I don't care why if the song deserves it I mix it OTB. |
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 15, 2014 16:07:22 GMT -6
I'm currently debating full on summing versus 2 buss 'mojo.' I'd love to try both, but summing requires a high amount of set up and cabling, so I'm kinda just hoping to wait it out and try drbill and LTL's silver bullet to see if that works. Drbill has been been making a case for it versus summing over on the 'site which shall not be named.' Based on comments over there, I'm guessing the price will be close to the Burl Vancouver, but of course, the SB includes a stereo pre and EQ, so likely a better value for me. Spring 2015 is just further off than I would like since I have some current mixes that could use that extra sumthin sumthin. Probably get a pair of vp28's in the meantime, or try running the 2buss through a pair of Lola's that I already have. That silver bullet sounded really good, it's a great ITB alternative for summing, the fact that u can hit the tracking button and use the pres for some quick recording with no cabling changes is worth the price of admission. Also, running ur ITB tracks round trip into vp28's is gold IMO |
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Post by mdmitch2 on Oct 15, 2014 17:00:34 GMT -6
I'm currently debating full on summing versus 2 buss 'mojo.' I'd love to try both, but summing requires a high amount of set up and cabling, so I'm kinda just hoping to wait it out and try drbill and LTL's silver bullet to see if that works. Drbill has been been making a case for it versus summing over on the 'site which shall not be named.' Based on comments over there, I'm guessing the price will be close to the Burl Vancouver, but of course, the SB includes a stereo pre and EQ, so likely a better value for me. Spring 2015 is just further off than I would like since I have some current mixes that could use that extra sumthin sumthin. Probably get a pair of vp28's in the meantime, or try running the 2buss through a pair of Lola's that I already have. That silver bullet sounded really good, it's a great ITB alternative for summing, the fact that u can hit the tracking button and use the pres for some quick recording with no cabling changes is worth the price of admission. Also, running ur ITB tracks round trip into vp28's is gold IMO That's encouraging about the SB.... nice to hear from someone that's actually heard it. |
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Post by Guitar on Oct 15, 2014 17:27:42 GMT -6
I'd really love a solid explanation of why my bass if so much more focused when I sum on a cheap analog mixer....that's why when I see people taking about all these stereo stems, I think they are kind missing the benefit. It's the mono busses that is where the biggest difference is--which in turn affects the stereo one by somehow staying in the middle better. It seems like it's a blur at 10&2 kind of thing....the center channel is bigger sounding, so it kind spills outward....eh....I miss my Akai. If that thing would run full track count at 88/96, I'd still be using it.... I can't explain it but every time I mix on my cheap A+H mixer the mix overall sounds more focused, it has more depth and dimension, etc. blah blah…. If I listen to old ITB mixes I switch them off within milliseconds. I don't care why if the song deserves it I mix it OTB. Don't doubt it, I have found the same to be true. But it's just an Allen and Heath they say. Our little secret. I wish people weren't so snobby sometimes, they would accomplish more. I'm going to buy a ZED 24 next month because I was so impressed with the tiny one. |
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Post by mrholmes on Oct 15, 2014 18:46:11 GMT -6
I can't explain it but every time I mix on my cheap A+H mixer the mix overall sounds more focused, it has more depth and dimension, etc. blah blah…. If I listen to old ITB mixes I switch them off within milliseconds. I don't care why if the song deserves it I mix it OTB. Don't doubt it, I have found the same to be true. But it's just an Allen and Heath they say. Our little secret. I wish people weren't so snobby sometimes, they would accomplish more. I'm going to buy a ZED 24 next month because I was so impressed with the tiny one. For the price and the tech-specs the ZED 24 delivers no one has the right to moan about it. True you can have the big wish for the big fully discrete Neve, API etc. I track with an Neve 1073 Preamp and I mix on the ZED and it sounds fantastic. Why not because its not high end gear? I do not care what others say, this is not GS. True mix on your ZED … I like mine as well. |
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Post by ericn on Oct 15, 2014 19:51:07 GMT -6
Machines with Magnets in Providence has a similar system... "API DSM 24: custom sidecar with eight 7600 input modules, two 8200 modules and the 7800 master module equaling 24 channels of discrete summing" ...along with a Neotek Elite and a Fat Bustard. Bastards. Don't go buying up an 8200 Jesse...I need one more!!!!! Don't worry Rick It may not sound as sweet but for now Love the workflow, routing recall and automation of the Status! Best $750 I ever spent, hell I bet I have spent 4 times that on TT bays cables and connectors for the Otari! One of these days I have to convince JW to breath some air into this thing though! |
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