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Post by jcoutu1 on Oct 13, 2014 17:41:40 GMT -6
...missed my chance at a Fat Bustard...couldn't raise the funds in time.
Anyone here using summing mixers? What ya got and how do you like it?
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Post by jeromemason on Oct 13, 2014 18:15:26 GMT -6
BLA PM8 man.... I use that one and I like it for sure. I don't have the MkII, but you can stack as many of them as you want I believe and the tranies sound great in them. Has them on every channel and the outputs. I think they go for around 1k for the new one.
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Post by svart on Oct 13, 2014 21:10:24 GMT -6
 BLA just has them on the output. They are Edcor transformers. |
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Post by popmann on Oct 13, 2014 21:29:47 GMT -6
I'd really love a solid explanation of why my bass if so much more focused when I sum on a cheap analog mixer....that's why when I see people taking about all these stereo stems, I think they are kind missing the benefit. It's the mono busses that is where the biggest difference is--which in turn affects the stereo one by somehow staying in the middle better. It seems like it's a blur at 10&2 kind of thing....the center channel is bigger sounding, so it kind spills outward....eh....I miss my Akai. If that thing would run full track count at 88/96, I'd still be using it....
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Post by mdmitch2 on Oct 13, 2014 22:27:06 GMT -6
BLA just has them on the output. They are Edcor transformers. I haven't seen inside one in person, but I'm pretty sure from the picture, and from reviews I've read that they're on the inputs as well (look at the top left for the 1st two input trannies, and the rest are hidden underneath). |
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Post by jeromemason on Oct 14, 2014 1:54:52 GMT -6
BLA just has them on the output. They are Edcor transformers. They're there, has trannies on the inputs and outputs. The outputs are selectable, and you can either run it passive, transformer out, or solid state out, which I think sounds pretty darn good if you've got some mojo after that to run it through. For the money, it's got a lot of bang. |
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Post by keymod on Oct 14, 2014 5:06:00 GMT -6
API 8200A
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Post by jcoutu1 on Oct 14, 2014 5:08:18 GMT -6
BLA just has them on the output. They are Edcor transformers. Where did you find this interior shot? I wish these were easier to come across. |
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Post by svart on Oct 14, 2014 6:45:02 GMT -6
</div>Ah yeah, you're right. I see them peeking out from the side on the left. |
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Post by svart on Oct 14, 2014 6:45:46 GMT -6
BLA just has them on the output. They are Edcor transformers. Where did you find this interior shot? I wish these were easier to come across. A super secret source. (Google: BLA PM8 inside ) |
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,099 
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Post by ericn on Oct 14, 2014 7:03:48 GMT -6
If I couldn't have a console A bunch of these and a 7800! But I would be tempted to play with opamps and Iron to give it more of that old API vibe! Let me say this again about summing systems they are all a console cut back to what somebody else feels are the features that you really need! |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Oct 14, 2014 8:47:37 GMT -6
Neve 8816 innards here. This look any good or junk? I know that nobtwiddler uses one of these. Anyone used the Phoenix Nicerizer or RND 5059?  |
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 14, 2014 10:22:05 GMT -6
Neve 8816 innards here. This look any good or junk? I know that nobtwiddler uses one of these. Anyone used the Phoenix Nicerizer or RND 5059? of course JMO, but those little silver cans are uber chaeap smd capacitors, they are used in automated assembly processes, and they sound like ass in everything i've seen them in when compared to changed out caps of higher quality. |
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Oct 14, 2014 10:41:37 GMT -6
I'd really love a solid explanation of why my bass if so much more focused when I sum on a cheap analog mixer....that's why when I see people taking about all these stereo stems, I think they are kind missing the benefit. It's the mono busses that is where the biggest difference is--which in turn affects the stereo one by somehow staying in the middle better. It seems like it's a blur at 10&2 kind of thing....the center channel is bigger sounding, so it kind spills outward....eh....I miss my Akai. If that thing would run full track count at 88/96, I'd still be using it.... I will agree with this as far as imaging goes. I too find way more focus on mono placements mixing on a console. However, I believe there is a benifit to mixing to stereo stems. It's not on the imaging but in harmonics overall. It acts as a glue with better dynamic and liveliness. My vote for the best sounding summing amp goes to..... Burl Vancouver Hands down favorite to a cowboys ears and what I would use if not for the console I have. |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Oct 14, 2014 11:16:09 GMT -6
I'd really love a solid explanation of why my bass if so much more focused when I sum on a cheap analog mixer....that's why when I see people taking about all these stereo stems, I think they are kind missing the benefit. It's the mono busses that is where the biggest difference is--which in turn affects the stereo one by somehow staying in the middle better. It seems like it's a blur at 10&2 kind of thing....the center channel is bigger sounding, so it kind spills outward....eh....I miss my Akai. If that thing would run full track count at 88/96, I'd still be using it.... I will agree with this as far as imaging goes. I too find way more focus on mono placements mixing on a console. However, I believe there is a benifit to mixing to stereo stems. It's not on the imaging but in harmonics overall. It acts as a glue with better dynamic and liveliness. My vote for the best sounding summing amp goes to..... Burl Vancouver Hands down favorite to a cowboys ears and what I would use if not for the console I have. What other have you heard Cowboy? |
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Post by jeromemason on Oct 14, 2014 12:25:59 GMT -6
Neve 8816 innards here. This look any good or junk? I know that nobtwiddler uses one of these. Anyone used the Phoenix Nicerizer or RND 5059? Those caps and opamps don't sound very good IMO. I'm kind of surprised Neve would go with a baked board like that, at least that's usually what they do when 99% of the board is SMT. But, Tony is right, those caps do not sound good at all. |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Oct 14, 2014 12:41:19 GMT -6
I was surprised by the interior too. Not what I was expecting at all.
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Post by Guitar on Oct 14, 2014 12:43:07 GMT -6
I'm using a DIY summing mixer similar to a Folcrom, sounds great, easily better than pure digital. But right now I favor summing, and hybrid mixing, on a ZED console. I run the mixer through some line pads into some custom API 312 preamps for a little more mojo. I tried the new Mackie too, but I prefer ZED. The workflow is just so much more elegant on a full featured mixer. If I'm stuck in the box, I'll uses Waves NLS set to Nevo mode on the master bus, along with other various color plugins, and it does help.
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Post by jeromemason on Oct 14, 2014 13:11:36 GMT -6
Jessie, you can call BLA and ask if they have any of the MKI Pm8's, they'll sell them to you for $500 a pop. popmann is right about running a couple of tracks in mono. I use in's 1-2 for bass and vocals panned up the middle mono, then 3 stems of Drums, Inst, EFX. When you hit the input tranny of that PM8 hard with the vocal and bass I've got to say that it will certainly impress you. If you were to be able to pick up 2 of them at $500 you'd be in 1k at 16 channels and it would be quality summing. I use the transformer out and into the VP28's and it's a perfect combo. The transformers on the PM8 add some really nice harmonic to the lowend while the VP28's give it the mid-range push. So, you could theoretically be in at 1k for summing, and $700 on VP28's and it sounds fantastic. I'm bias, sorry, and I've heard passive summing units that are just simply summing mixers, and compared to having those transformers on the inputs it's not close. Now, it's not Fat Bustard, I mean that's an expensive box and rightly so, the Burl is nice as well, but the PM8 is doing something similar there with adding that warmth. If you want, send me a stem of something and I'll run it through so you can have a listen. |
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Post by mdmitch2 on Oct 14, 2014 13:47:19 GMT -6
Sound on Sound was pretty critical of the build quality on the PM8 (mk1). Have you had any issues? Are the non-detented pan pots a problem?
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Post by jeromemason on Oct 14, 2014 13:56:24 GMT -6
Sound on Sound was pretty critical of the build quality on the PM8 (mk1). Have you had any issues? Are the non-detented pan pots a problem? Nah, I mean that would be a luxury, but for the cost it's not an issue. Basically the best way to set it up is to run a 1k tone through each channel and monitor the outputs, then you can adjust the pan pots to align center, and I can go back 3 months later and it's all the same. I mean, detented pots would be a nice feature but certainly not a deal breaker when sound is considered. |
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Oct 14, 2014 14:04:19 GMT -6
I will agree with this as far as imaging goes. I too find way more focus on mono placements mixing on a console. However, I believe there is a benifit to mixing to stereo stems. It's not on the imaging but in harmonics overall. It acts as a glue with better dynamic and liveliness. My vote for the best sounding summing amp goes to..... Burl Vancouver Hands down favorite to a cowboys ears and what I would use if not for the console I have. What other have you heard Cowboy? Practically all of em. Second place goes to Inward Connectioms 690. Sounds an awful lot like a Neve console though and ideally not the sound I'd want for mixing. 690 is rather thick. The 8816 is not in the same league as the Burl or 690. The Burl sounds like a big ole punchy SSL console. Tightens everything up in a hurry. |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Oct 14, 2014 14:19:48 GMT -6
What other have you heard Cowboy? Practically all of em. Second place goes to Inward Connectioms 690. Sounds an awful lot like a Neve console though and ideally not the sound I'd want for mixing. 690 is rather thick. The 8816 is not in the same league as the Burl or 690. The Burl sounds like a big ole punchy SSL console. Tightens everything up in a hurry. How about the Nicerizer? Lay your ears on that one? |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Oct 14, 2014 14:24:21 GMT -6
Jessie, you can call BLA and ask if they have any of the MKI Pm8's, they'll sell them to you for $500 a pop. popmann is right about running a couple of tracks in mono. I use in's 1-2 for bass and vocals panned up the middle mono, then 3 stems of Drums, Inst, EFX. When you hit the input tranny of that PM8 hard with the vocal and bass I've got to say that it will certainly impress you. If you were to be able to pick up 2 of them at $500 you'd be in 1k at 16 channels and it would be quality summing. I use the transformer out and into the VP28's and it's a perfect combo. The transformers on the PM8 add some really nice harmonic to the lowend while the VP28's give it the mid-range push. So, you could theoretically be in at 1k for summing, and $700 on VP28's and it sounds fantastic. I'm bias, sorry, and I've heard passive summing units that are just simply summing mixers, and compared to having those transformers on the inputs it's not close. Now, it's not Fat Bustard, I mean that's an expensive box and rightly so, the Burl is nice as well, but the PM8 is doing something similar there with adding that warmth. If you want, send me a stem of something and I'll run it through so you can have a listen. The problem with the BLA unit for me, is that I had their EQ and didn't jive with it. It felt overly colored and the build quality felt like crap. I was surprised by such a cheap build from a company who prides itself on doing upgrades. Transformers across the board is appealing though. |
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Post by mdmitch2 on Oct 14, 2014 14:42:21 GMT -6
Sound on Sound was pretty critical of the build quality on the PM8 (mk1). Have you had any issues? Are the non-detented pan pots a problem? Nah, I mean that would be a luxury, but for the cost it's not an issue. Basically the best way to set it up is to run a 1k tone through each channel and monitor the outputs, then you can adjust the pan pots to align center, and I can go back 3 months later and it's all the same. I mean, detented pots would be a nice feature but certainly not a deal breaker when sound is considered. Apart from the low end focus of the PM8 and the mid focus of the VP28's, which would you say has the bigger sonic impact on the depth, width, and finished feel of the mix? I know this is very subjective... but I'm just curious which you would pick if you could only have one or the other, since that's where I'm sitting in the short term. |
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