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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 8, 2014 19:56:42 GMT -6
Well, i've had the opportunity to listen to 96k/24 bit files vs 44.1/16 CD's for a bit now, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that there is a very real and significant improvement in the sound quality of the tracks i've heard. If i had to explain the diffs in one word, that word would be "realismoothadimensiodepthowidtheight" 8)
anyone else check HD tracks or ? hi res files out?
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Post by jeromemason on Oct 8, 2014 20:05:39 GMT -6
That's where I always get my audio.... amazing stuff. The "Dark Knight Rises" in 192 is absolutely incredible.
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Post by levon on Oct 9, 2014 7:41:20 GMT -6
I've browsed their website for months, but I wasn't too sure about it. How do you listen to those HD files? Any player that can handle 96k/24bit?
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Post by popmann on Oct 9, 2014 8:00:01 GMT -6
Well, I've been listening to 24/192 and DSD transfers of tape recordings and 24/88-96 recordings for about 12 years now. Yeah. There's a difference.
I found it ironic that my spending $1300 on a universal player for the listening system yielded no noticeable improvement in SACD and DVDA and their respective file types--and made HUGE improvement in redbook and 48khz audio. As I've said all along--high sample rates (and DSD) are a working class upgrade--meaning, SACD on a $125 player sounds mostly like SACD on my $1300 one....or the $600 one it replaced. If I told you this:
Format A: This is a fine format if you buy a $1300 player. It's compromised from the studio master, but not enough that most people would notice. Format B: This sounds better than "A on a $1300 player".....on a $125 unit.
Who in their right mind would choose format A? This is why I scratch my head so much...but, honestly--it all made more sense when they were discs. Once you have to download, backup, and maintain file systems? Now you literally ARE in a scenario where you need to balance size/performance. When it was all the same sized silver disc--it made since to have 6GB DSD discs. Why does anyone give a F how much data is on the disc? Now, you really have to ask "how much difference does 6gb make versus 600mb versus 60mb?" On the good side--it really doesn't cost much, if any, extra to make them available as file downloads, unlike discs. So, if the 1% of the audience who cares double buys.....maybe it ends up being worth it.
Which brings up my complaint with HDTracks (and every service like them--it's not THEM, it's the label feeds)---no liner notes. You're packaging a "premium" version with a PDF of the album cover? That's says if I'm a fan, I HAVE to buy the CD, then buy the high rez download to listen to while I read the CD liner notes? Fail. It's not like those liner notes aren't PDF files already at the label. They're literally withholding them hoping for double buys.
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 9, 2014 9:05:57 GMT -6
I've browsed their website for months, but I wasn't too sure about it. How do you listen to those HD files? Any player that can handle 96k/24bit? iTunes plays them LT! I personally import the tracks into a file matched PT session w/album name so I can utilizes my hi Q DAC. i agree with pop on the lack of a liner case experience totally
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Post by jeromemason on Oct 9, 2014 11:33:16 GMT -6
The FLAC player is free and works great.
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Post by levon on Oct 10, 2014 0:13:08 GMT -6
Thanks Tony and Jerome. I'm always a bit wary of iTunes, to my (admittedly bad) ears, it sounds like it's doing something to the sound, can't really put my finger on it. But I guess I'll take a shot at it. jeromemason, you got any link to a FLAC player for Mac? I found plenty for Windows...
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Post by jeromemason on Oct 10, 2014 0:21:11 GMT -6
Thanks Tony and Jerome. I'm always a bit wary of iTunes, to my (admittedly bad) ears, it sounds like it's doing something to the sound, can't really put my finger on it. But I guess I'll take a shot at it. jeromemason, you got any link to a FLAC player for Mac? I found plenty for Windows... This is the one I've always used, works great! download.cnet.com/VLC-Media-Player/3000-2139_4-10210434.html
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Post by levon on Oct 10, 2014 0:28:25 GMT -6
Thanks Tony and Jerome. I'm always a bit wary of iTunes, to my (admittedly bad) ears, it sounds like it's doing something to the sound, can't really put my finger on it. But I guess I'll take a shot at it. jeromemason, you got any link to a FLAC player for Mac? I found plenty for Windows... This is the one I've always used, works great! download.cnet.com/VLC-Media-Player/3000-2139_4-10210434.htmlGreat, thanks.
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Post by popmann on Oct 10, 2014 15:21:27 GMT -6
iTunes uses CoreAudio, thus it's allow Apple to reclock the audio. I'm not sure I'd call it "bad sounding"--I use it for normal "play while you surf" music....but, Audiovana will lock down the hardware at HAL level--bypassing the reclocking of CoreAudio. I use that when I hook the MacBook up to the "big system" for music listening. It will play DSD files, too--and convert to PCM if your DAC doesn't support native DSD.
I'm going to say it....because it bares repeating--the MASTER matters more than the resolution. I can show you CD masters that best 24/192 masters. My point being--you need something mastered with care for the difference to matter much--and it DOES matter....but, only ASSuming the mastering itself is equal.
...or better--the new Tom Petty "only" at 24/48 sounds better than the CD by miles because they left the high rez dynamic and crushed teh CD. Where the first Maroon5 at HDTracks is DR6 or something--just like the 2002CD. The 96khz still sounds better, but not by enough to give too much of a shit. Certainly not enough to buy it AGAIN if you already own it. Unless you just, you know--it's your fave album ever.
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 10, 2014 17:02:27 GMT -6
I've never bought anything from the site - just listened by clicking on the previews...am I hearing the higher sample rate when I do that?
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Post by popmann on Oct 10, 2014 18:33:16 GMT -6
No, you're hearing a 128kbps mp3. An irony I've pointed out many times--they should simply remove the clips. It's ALL "rebuying" anyway. Not like people are buying things they've never heard for $18-25 a pop. Yet--more than a few people I'm SURE turn their speakers up, click the mp3 preview and go "that sounds like my stolen mp3" and don't buy.
JK....since I know you liked the album, if you want to buy something-get the last Gregory Porter. It's stunning sounding. It's the only version I had....went home to visit and my mother had bought the CD...put it on and thought "shit...now, if that can't sell high rez"--cause the CD is "ehh sounding", IMO. Usually I go the other way--right? I've had the CD for decade(s) and maybe the vinyl if it's old enough....and I get the high rez....
Anyway--the modern jazz stuff like that is the best. Jane Monheit has been recording and releasing 96khz for many albums--maybe whole career.
The Eagles set sounds fabulous, as well. I love having a nice master of One of These Nights, which is my fave--I have had various nice masters of Hotel Cali, for example--the new one might be the best, but it's not night and day....but, having the whole catalog "evenly mastered" is nice. The Ronstadt stuff of the same era....isn't as good. They certainly don't suck, but the MFSL CD of Hasten Down the Wind is nicer sounding than the 24/192 remaster. Compared to the label released CDs....they're improved, but again-those were solid CD masters to start with, IMO. Only "Back in the USA" I sourced a good old vinyl which improves on the CD....and really is a draw between it and the 24/192.
But, then--I have had a DVD-Audio/SACD player for 12+ years....so....
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 12, 2014 14:29:39 GMT -6
Damn. I'm embarrassed I didn't know!
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 12, 2014 22:32:53 GMT -6
Damn. I'm embarrassed I didn't know! nahhh, if it was the hi rez, you'd have known.
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Post by ephi82 on Oct 15, 2014 9:45:05 GMT -6
iTunes uses CoreAudio, thus it's allow Apple to reclock the audio. I'm not sure I'd call it "bad sounding"--I use it for normal "play while you surf" music....but, Audiovana will lock down the hardware at HAL level--bypassing the reclocking of CoreAudio. I use that when I hook the MacBook up to the "big system" for music listening. It will play DSD files, too--and convert to PCM if your DAC doesn't support native DSD. I'm going to say it....because it bares repeating--the MASTER matters more than the resolution. I can show you CD masters that best 24/192 masters. My point being--you need something mastered with care for the difference to matter much--and it DOES matter....but, only ASSuming the mastering itself is equal. ...or better--the new Tom Petty "only" at 24/48 sounds better than the CD by miles because they left the high rez dynamic and crushed teh CD. Where the first Maroon5 at HDTracks is DR6 or something--just like the 2002CD. The 96khz still sounds better, but not by enough to give too much of a shit. Certainly not enough to buy it AGAIN if you already own it. Unless you just, you know--it's your fave album ever. This is absolutely at the heart of the matter. A Hi Res version of a brickwall limited master is going to sound just like a CD of the same. A Hi Res version of a carefully mastered mix, with wide dynamic range and reasonable/musical EQ will not necessarily sound better than the same master on a CD However, great masters are more often available only on Hi Res releases, and the CD's of the same music will have a different master for maximum"loudness". There are more releases being made available on the Blu Ray Audio Only format and in many cases they include great 5.1 mixes.
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Post by scumbum on Oct 15, 2014 10:49:00 GMT -6
On pc's Winamp plays them , which is free .
But I have to say aren't most of the new 24bit 96khz releases from the original master tape ran through modern mastering converters ? Like if you compare your old cd to the new release I think the biggest difference is the latest mastering converters used compared with say the mastering converters in the 90's that made your CD .
I got the re-release of Nevermind and while it does sound clearer , it was slammed in mastering , the modern mastering converters made it too clear , I like the sound of the original CD much better .
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 15, 2014 11:38:07 GMT -6
iTunes uses CoreAudio, thus it's allow Apple to reclock the audio. I'm not sure I'd call it "bad sounding"--I use it for normal "play while you surf" music....but, Audiovana will lock down the hardware at HAL level--bypassing the reclocking of CoreAudio. I use that when I hook the MacBook up to the "big system" for music listening. It will play DSD files, too--and convert to PCM if your DAC doesn't support native DSD. I'm going to say it....because it bares repeating--the MASTER matters more than the resolution. I can show you CD masters that best 24/192 masters. My point being--you need something mastered with care for the difference to matter much--and it DOES matter....but, only ASSuming the mastering itself is equal. ...or better--the new Tom Petty "only" at 24/48 sounds better than the CD by miles because they left the high rez dynamic and crushed teh CD. Where the first Maroon5 at HDTracks is DR6 or something--just like the 2002CD. The 96khz still sounds better, but not by enough to give too much of a shit. Certainly not enough to buy it AGAIN if you already own it. Unless you just, you know--it's your fave album ever. This is absolutely at the heart of the matter. A Hi Res version of a brickwall limited master is going to sound just like a CD of the same.A Hi Res version of a carefully mastered mix, with wide dynamic range and reasonable/musical EQ will not necessarily sound better than the same master on a CD However, great masters are more often available only on Hi Res releases, and the CD's of the same music will have a different master for maximum"loudness". There are more releases being made available on the Blu Ray Audio Only format and in many cases they include great 5.1 mixes. I c y ud say this, but with my experimenting lately, it doesn't seem to be the case.
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Post by popmann on Oct 15, 2014 11:40:20 GMT -6
Except it won't sound "the same" on CD. I'm saying the master itself makes MORE difference. It's not the ONLY difference. A DR6 master like the last Sara Bareilles absolutely sounds better at 24/88 than on CD. Hell--it sounds better from iTunes at 16/48....sounds better on vinyl (no doubt cut from the 24/88 master)....the resolution matters....but, to talk about how much it matters you HAVE to state--same master being used, which is often not the case.
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