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Post by Mark Kano on Sept 13, 2013 14:27:32 GMT -6
Check this vid out starting at around 2:12. It looks like by using the virtual channels in the UA console you can pull up any VI from the DAW and monitor it through the UA. Since you have to send the output of the VI track in the host DAW to the UA console, I was wondering what this does to the latency? I'm assuming it would be just as if you were tracking straight inside the DAW since the UA is adding no additional latency. I never really get a chance to use real guitar amps and drums anymore so this is a pretty important feature for my scenario. Any Apollo guys out there have experience working this way?
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Post by Johnkenn on Sept 13, 2013 14:34:01 GMT -6
I would assume you would still be limited to your buffer size, right? I don't think that solves latency issues at all...
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Post by Mark Kano on Sept 13, 2013 14:53:57 GMT -6
That's what I'm assuming. You're still using the VI the same way, just being able to pull it up through the Apollo monitoring console with no additional latency added to what is already there.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Sept 13, 2013 16:53:24 GMT -6
I think the purpose of running a VI into the Console is to use and/or print with UAD plugs. I don't think you gain anything else, it's the same as using it in your DAW, but I'm not an expert on these things.
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Post by Mark Kano on Sept 13, 2013 18:07:15 GMT -6
You know.. that makes sense. I'm overcomplicating things as usual. I guess demoing one would answer my questions.
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Post by category5 on Sept 15, 2013 9:15:27 GMT -6
Absolutely - that's what it's built to do. Wouldn't even think you would have to get down to 32 either. I didn't end up buying the Oceanway plug, but it was pretty cool to track acoustics with it...kinda set them in the room. The Apollo is a great setup...Sounds great. Wish they would make a $4K box with Burl though...I'd buy that in a heartbeat. You could get 4 used 2192s and use an AES->ADAT format converter to get 8 i/o of that level of conversion with all of Apollo's features. Would cost about 7 grand though, but who are you kidding John? You long for that level of sound quality, and every time you buy and sell inferior gear you lose money on it. Cowboy finally got his Symphony piped into the Apollo now, so has Apollo features with Symphony conversion. |
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Post by popmann on Sept 15, 2013 11:32:24 GMT -6
Re earlier...it should allow UAD plug to be used on a VI without (noticeable) additional latency. That's all. If you think about it. You're ALWAYS using the UA mixer to monitor your VIs--at least the main output. Right? I sometimes think people need a refresher on signal flow.  Everything you hear is off the 56bit hardware mixer of the Apollo. In fact, they make it 56bit fixed hardware for the same reason I used 56bit hardware for so many years--it's virtually unclippable-regardless...the VI start in the DAW software and is fed to the hardware mixer on the Apollo to feed you headphones and monitors. So, inserting it's own plug ins...won't add more than the couple milliseconds additional latency. However, I also would wonder the value in needing to process samples "live while playing".... |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2013 2:35:44 GMT -6
Absolutely - that's what it's built to do. Wouldn't even think you would have to get down to 32 either. I didn't end up buying the Oceanway plug, but it was pretty cool to track acoustics with it...kinda set them in the room. The Apollo is a great setup...Sounds great. Wish they would make a $4K box with Burl though...I'd buy that in a heartbeat. You could get 4 used 2192s and use an AES->ADAT format converter to get 8 i/o of that level of conversion with all of Apollo's features. Would cost about 7 grand though, but who are you kidding John? You long for that level of sound quality, and every time you buy and sell inferior gear you lose money on it. Cowboy finally got his Symphony piped into the Apollo now, so has Apollo features with Symphony conversion. Hopefully he'll chime in. I don't see the point, cuz can't you do the same thing with a regular UAD FW box? is it just the ability to run the plugins in realtime while tracking and print the results? Couldn't you achieve the same thing by using the plugins on buses, feeding your audio input to the bus and recording the bus outputs? Same way you print hardware inserts... |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2013 2:43:33 GMT -6
Check this vid out starting at around 2:12. It looks like by using the virtual channels in the UA console you can pull up any VI from the DAW and monitor it through the UA. Since you have to send the output of the VI track in the host DAW to the UA console, I was wondering what this does to the latency? I'm assuming it would be just as if you were tracking straight inside the DAW since the UA is adding no additional latency. I never really get a chance to use real guitar amps and drums anymore so this is a pretty important feature for my scenario. Any Apollo guys out there have experience working this way? There's latency coming from the DAW to the outputs, which is based on your sample buffer. if it's set to 32, it'll take 32 samples for your guitar going into the computer to get sent back out to the Apollo. But that's assuming that you're recording direct into your DAW, bypassing the UAD stuff on the way in, sending the direct signal into the Apollo virtual channels, and then also recording the UAD virtual channel output. in effect, your DAW would be acting like a DI splitter box, and the Apollo would be the mic'd amp signal (depending on plugins used). |
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Sept 17, 2013 14:54:07 GMT -6
Yeah Cat 5, mine is slick now even at higher sample rates. One thing I don't like is now I cant choose ADAT 1 and 2(Symphony) as my system audio, I-Tunes and so on. It defaults to Apollo main outs and I can't figure out a way to change it. Not an issue in a DAW though as I/O is easily selectable. But IO really miss hearing computer audio through the Symphony. Any thoughts??
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Post by popmann on Sept 17, 2013 16:20:33 GMT -6
SMUX is a BS workaround. I'd venture when it's configured for SMUX operation, there is not more ADAT 1+2....it's technically merging 1&2 and 3&4 to offer the first two channels. That's why. I don't know a solution unless there's a routing trick you can pull between two virtual outs the computer sees then route it in the UA mixer to the SMUX physical outs...you know?
I can't believe UA chose to use the digital IO as their means for stacking units....effectively NOT being able to stack them, since you take a 8x10 analog and 8x8 digital box and when you add a second, you get a total of 16x18 analog and no digital. Or maybe can you still use the SPDIF? Regardless--it's not so much a scaleable system--you could add any SMUX capable analog box and have teh same channel count. I guess you have MORE DSP...but, for a cue mix? Someone needs more? I digress--but, that was the big "WTF" moment for me on the Apollo system--and there not being an "all plug in" bundle without an otco card that won't be useable in any Mac next year...I do think, without talking about that last 5% of audio quality, it's a killer system if you buy in BIG. I'd say an Apollo16+Octo Ultimate and you've mostly rendered the computer being used irrelevant. You know?
I've said it before--they're system basically is HDX only with a established collection of traditional studio tools already modelled. All HDX is, is a hardware cue monitor that will run the plugs...to front a native system. But, they dropped the ball on the scaling for bigger installations. Doesn't matter for most home studios. But, it shows the market they're aiming for.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2013 6:45:20 GMT -6
Make an aggregate device in AudioMIDI Setup, if you have both Apollo and Symphony connected? then you could make the symphony be your default output.
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Post by category5 on Sept 18, 2013 10:26:33 GMT -6
IAJG figured out that you have two open ADAT ins on one interface and 2 open ADAT outs on the other so you can still SMUX another 8 channels for 24 i/o up to 96KHz. We still have no confirmation that it works, but UA says it should and in theory it should.
Agreed that UA didn't need to waste the ADAT like that. At most they'd just need to pipe a stereo mix from the second console into the first for monitoring. Why they have to waste two ADATS is beyond me.
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Post by IamJohnGalt on Sept 18, 2013 12:34:05 GMT -6
Yes, you should be able to add 8 channels of inputs through the ADAT inputs of the second Apollo. UA swears they have it working in the lab but my device cant clock correctly with this setup. I am going to try an Aurora 8 and see if it works (as soon as Cat5 brings his over;) ) You can only use the SPDIF connections on 1 of the Apollo units (UA says its because of the PT limitations of 32 tracks). Therefore, with cascaded Apollo's you end up with: 16x18 anolog and 10x2 digital.
Its a joke that you need so many cables to connect these two units. I have two units with TB cards and between the units I require a TB cable, FW800 cable and two ADAT cables...that's frickin ridiculous. Still, for me the its all worth it and I am fine with 26 inputs.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Sept 18, 2013 12:47:07 GMT -6
Howdy boys, good to see the Apollo gang joining in here.
As for the original question, was it worth the dough? My answer is yes, unquestionably. I had a gazillion Waves plugs and an Apogee Duet, and felt it didn't sound right. I decided to return the Duet after a few days and upped the ante to get the Apollo. The preamp was in a different league than the Duet, and the plugs were also so much more real sounding, it led me to begin working on my own music projects after being out of the business for a long, very long, time. The Apollo was that inspiring. Now that time's been spent with it, yes there are a few things I'd like to add to the system, preamps, better A/D conversion, maybe the new BLA mod, but the plain vanilla Apollo sounds great, and some of the tracks I'm keeping were just me, plugged right into the Apollo.
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Everything you hear is off the 56bit hardware mixer of the Apollo. In fact, they make it 56bit fixed hardware for the same reason I used 56bit hardware for so many years--it's virtually unclippable-regardless...the VI start in the DAW software and is fed to the hardware mixer on the Apollo to feed you headphones and monitors. So, inserting it's own plug ins...won't add more than the couple milliseconds additional latency. However, I also would wonder the value in needing to process samples "live while playing"....
