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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2014 20:16:13 GMT -6
I just bought the upgrade and Fairfax 1. I really like the way that kit sounds in their environment. Might be nice if I don't have to break it down to a raw kit to mix.
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Post by Johnkenn on Sept 25, 2014 20:21:32 GMT -6
Yeah - I think I could use FF2 straight up...maybe compress in AD2
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Post by Randge on Sept 26, 2014 7:54:54 GMT -6
It boils down to whether you are making art or more about making money. Right now, there are drummers that are more than happy to come for $50/song, John. The fake sample sounds never feel quite right mostly because the people using them aren't drummers. I have heard fills on demos before that make me shake my head because they just aren't what a drummer would play. The flow is wrong and they sound 3 handed. I would have rather heard the demos with no drums distracting me from the lyric than the miracle drummer showing his chops.
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Post by Johnkenn on Sept 26, 2014 8:58:38 GMT -6
It boils down to whether you are making art or more about making money. . I'm sure you don't mean that the way it comes off - but I don't feel like that's the case at all. Obviously, I would never put anything out there for public consumption that had plastic drums on it - but I'm doing demos...Also, you're not taking into account that most of us don't have the tools - mics, mic pres, drumsets, etc. - to have someone come over and lay something down for $50 a song. I go in and demo about 30-50 songs a year in big studios. That's a lot of money. Then I have 15-25 songs that I write and record in between and for whatever reason do them at home. That would be another $1225 for just paying a drummer at $50 per side. I just can't swing that. So, there ARE other reasons other than "making money" for people to use these tools. |
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Post by popmann on Sept 26, 2014 9:57:58 GMT -6
Everything in my sig is a real drummer. it's easier--no doubt. I'm on your side from a tech perspective--it's easier, quicker, and really just a DIFFERENT mess when it comes time to mix....but, it's not about "making money" --like the $50-150 is eating into an artist's profits. Ha. It's about whether you're willing to go into DEBT to make your album and pay it off with a day job. And, there's nothing wrong doing that--but, it shouldn't be construed as "making art vs making money"...since one could argue I'm making neither.  |
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Post by mrholmes on Sept 26, 2014 10:13:25 GMT -6
I think the thing is you have to take fake drums for what they are FAKE.
If it comes to a song from your heart
I always would swing 600$ for studio and drummer... no doubt.
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Post by Johnkenn on Sept 26, 2014 10:46:56 GMT -6
I think the thing is you have to take fake drums for what they are FAKE. If it comes to a song from your heart I always would swing 600$ for studio and drummer... no doubt. Times 25? |
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Post by tonycamphd on Sept 26, 2014 10:52:47 GMT -6
I'm all for real drums as i'm an obsessed drummer, but i totally get these are tools to create music, i've used them to get me places, i've even done strange things(mistakes) when programming, that have inspired new and uniquely "artful" ideas, so i haven't a problem with it at all.
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Post by mrholmes on Sept 26, 2014 11:06:40 GMT -6
I think the thing is you have to take fake drums for what they are FAKE. If it comes to a song from your heart I always would swing 600$ for studio and drummer... no doubt. Times 25? STUDIO AND DRUMMER !! Cant track drums here no way.... |
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Post by tonycamphd on Sept 26, 2014 12:33:52 GMT -6
I think the thing is you have to take fake drums for what they are FAKE. If it comes to a song from your heart I always would swing 600$ for studio and drummer... no doubt. My studio is close to finished, and my drums are killer sounding, after Levon and henge, ur exactly the guy I'm looking for, I just happen to charge $600 per song, what a coincidence  |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2014 13:11:19 GMT -6
Rofl
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Post by Randge on Sept 26, 2014 21:39:52 GMT -6
I certainly didn't mean what I said to be offensive in any way. I am merely relaying what people have told me lately. What if the reason your songs aren't getting cut by big artists and more frequently, is that they have enough instinct to be turned off by the plastic drums and it shuts down their possible love for the song immediately? They may or may not know why, but it just doesn't hit them. I have been told so many times by artists I have been around that they would rather have a small demo of just piano or acoustic guitar accompaniment than a full blown demo that doesn't hit their gut. I think that plastic drums and library parts have a hell of a lot to do with that right now. I programmed one demo once for budget reasons and I found that I am pretty good at it. However, it never did anything for me when I made a pretty slick mix of it. Now, if it didn't hit me right, why should I expect anyone else to hear a hit through all of that? I don't, and that is why I will never do it again. I guess I am lucky to have a pretty nice house kit and world class preamps to record it, John, but even a mediocre real kit recorded with budget preamps will be better than anything programmed. It's worth it. Your music is worth it.
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Post by Johnkenn on Sept 26, 2014 21:45:56 GMT -6
95% of what I pitch are studio demos. I'll occasionally do smaller acoustic tracks at home to pitch too. I only do the very rare home demo with fake drums - and most of the time, if I'm gonna flesh it out that much, I'll re-cut in the studio. I would say that there are waaaay more reasons than fake drums that my songs don't get cut. I've had a Leann Rimes and Faith Hill cut with home demos - I would like to assume they know it's just that - a demo. Luckily, I have a publisher that pays for demos, so I get to go in and use these killer guys...but there are times in between that I have a song that I don't want to wait to cut - or something that I feel like I can put a unique spin on - hey, there's creativity in limitation.
As far as what artists want to hear...who the fuck knows. They're all different. Some producers and a&r can't hear through a work tape. Frank Liddell prefers them. I just try and cast the song in the best light and put it out there and pray. I also depend on my plugger'a opinion - they're out there every day and know what works and doesn't.
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Post by Randge on Sept 26, 2014 23:22:28 GMT -6
I am just going by what the artists are telling me themselves. If you make the demo too good, it intimidates them. Too weak and they pass it off as a Monday morning song. What the musically ignorant focus group that the label insists on using say, is something else entirely. Good luck with the pitching, John.
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Post by Randge on Sept 26, 2014 23:44:28 GMT -6
I tell you what, Mike Clute is a genius with midi and sample stuff. I need to send him an email and get him on the board here with us. He is the only guy I know that can make sample drums sound and feel right to me in a mix context.
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Post by Johnkenn on Sept 27, 2014 8:16:03 GMT -6
That would be killer...I don't think I've ever met, Mike, but he held some songs of mine for Diamond Rio...
Truthfully, if I'm not writing something for myself, I only write with artists...about the only way to get cuts anymore. It's sad, but it's not "best song wins" anymore - more like "best college roomate."
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Post by Randge on Sept 27, 2014 9:09:51 GMT -6
You gotta ride the bus with the artists anymore. I really hate that it has come to that, but you sure are correct, John.
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