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Post by Ward on Aug 8, 2013 9:33:13 GMT -6
Ok, gang. This is a very serious thread.
A little background - I've been a session singer for longer than I have been a record producer/engineer. I started when I was 16, working in a studio, doing backing vocals, piano and also learning a bit from observation, that gave me my start at this. Of course starting formal training in voice and piano at 4 didn't hurt either. Anyhow, I've arranged and sung backing vocals on hundreds of records, many across the internet the past 15 years. Shadowing, perfect pitch, phrasing, deletion of consonants, tonality changes, mic placement, throat positioning for tuning etc are all part of my personal arsenal as a singer... but this isn't about me. I just wanted to preface that first
OK, here's the issue. What headphones do any of you find best for singers to hear PITCH best. This is not a question of headphone mix, one can half-off, one can off,... this is a question of what we have discovered in our collective infinite experience that works best. I have dealt with singers over the past week (on a record) where the only way they could sing on key was if they had my ghost vocal to sing to (ghost vocal of their exact part) and this is common. These are singers who are FLAWLESS live! And they are not studio virgins either.
So, ones that don;'t help: AKG K240s, 270/1s, Beyer DT100s, DT770s, cheaper things from AT and the like...
What are the very best headphones for singers that give them a sense of being "in the mix" and finding their exact pitch. Your suggestions would be VERY welcome.
Thank you all in advance.
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Post by svart on Aug 8, 2013 12:35:56 GMT -6
Get the "more me" headphones and give them a try. I use them in the studio because they are cheap and VERY midrange-y sounding, you know, right where the human voice is. I also think that if you can compress the piss out of their vocals and add a little reverb to their vocals in their headphone mix, it solves a lot of issues. When they can't hit pitch when listening to themselves in the headphones but can hit pitch in a room without headphones, I've found it's because of the slight latency between what they are singing and what they are hearing. It causes them to try to follow what they hear and you start to get a form of oscillation.. Compression and reverb even out what they hear of themselves and gives them the added time to hit pitch on their own. Think of it like singing in the shower. A lot of people think they sound good in the shower when they don't really. It's because the close reverb and compression effect of the small space allow them to essentially harmonize with their own reverb.
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Post by Ward on Aug 8, 2013 13:04:32 GMT -6
Please explain what "more me" headphones are... a particular brand and model?
As for your kind advice offered, I am familiar with all techniques utilized as I've been at this now for 30 years. Reverb actually makes singers go flat. Tilting the voicebox up (by having the mic higher than the nose and having them sing up to it) will compensate to some degree in the same manner that tiling the voicebox down will likewise "flatten" pitch. That can also result in more stable long held notes as the pharynx is compressed.
What I need is a brand/model of headphones that will help focus, and if you can be exact in your description, it will be greatly appreciated!
Thank yo for your interest and taking the time to reply.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Aug 8, 2013 13:23:30 GMT -6
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 8, 2013 14:15:25 GMT -6
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Post by matt on Aug 8, 2013 14:23:07 GMT -6
Yep, me too. Two pair, for simultaneous closed-back listening pleasure. However, my vocalist often tracks with one cup half-off an ear, to not feel so isolated, I would guess. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2013 14:47:11 GMT -6
Headphone on one ear, pan the mix to that side so there's no spill. I don't really care about the headphones, they have to be Vic Firth Drummer Cans for drumming though.
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Post by svart on Aug 8, 2013 15:05:26 GMT -6
Yeah I meant those headphones that jcoutu1 linked to.
Hmm, I've had great success with the compression and reverb. In fact I keep them up on the DAW plugs most of the time. Singers seem to like it too, saying it feels more natural. Oh well, I guess YMMV.
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Post by henge on Aug 8, 2013 15:43:26 GMT -6
Ok, gang. This is a very serious thread. A little background - I've been a session singer for longer than I have been a record producer/engineer. I started when I was 16, working in a studio, doing backing vocals, piano and also learning a bit from observation, that gave me my start at this. Of course starting formal training in voice and piano at 4 didn't hurt either. Anyhow, I've arranged and sung backing vocals on hundreds of records, many across the internet the past 15 years. Shadowing, perfect pitch, phrasing, deletion of consonants, tonality changes, mic placement, throat positioning for tuning etc are all part of my personal arsenal as a singer... but this isn't about me. I just wanted to preface that firstOK, here's the issue. What headphones do any of you find best for singers to hear PITCH best. This is not a question of headphone mix, one can half-off, one can off,... this is a question of what we have discovered in our collective infinite experience that works best. I have dealt with singers over the past week (on a record) where the only way they could sing on key was if they had my ghost vocal to sing to (ghost vocal of their exact part) and this is common. These are singers who are FLAWLESS live! And they are not studio virgins either. So, ones that don;'t help: AKG K240s, 270/1s, Beyer DT100s, DT770s, cheaper things from AT and the like... What are the very best headphones for singers that give them a sense of being "in the mix" and finding their exact pitch. Your suggestions would be VERY welcome. Thank you all in advance. I might hazard a guess that the phones your looking for don't exist. I've never found a pair that have alleviated the tuning problem. Maybe we just have to keep using the compensating techniques that work for each individual singer. In answer to your question, one of the phones you list as causing problems ( Ath 50) are the ones i find to cause the least problems. But then most people sing with an ear off... |
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Post by lolo on Aug 20, 2013 21:42:05 GMT -6
My new Sony MDR-7506 cans rocked up today
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Aug 21, 2013 19:11:43 GMT -6
I've tried the Beyers and just couldn't get comfortable with them. Maybe it was the fit or whatever but had to sell them. Best so far for me are the tried and true Shure SRH 840's. Been stocking up on them as I've never had a complaint from anyone who uses them, and I prefer them too.
I guess there are better to be had but I haven't found them yet.
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Post by wiz on Aug 21, 2013 19:20:03 GMT -6
I actually ended up using Extreme Isolation Headphones, I got em when I started playing drums on my own songs... and kinda just got used to them.
cheers
Wiz
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2013 7:29:25 GMT -6
If you don't mind HP bleed (i don't) try the Sennheiser HD serie (HD580 and up).
They are open back, comfy and i've never had a singer pull one side off so they sing into a stereo mix which reflex what the final song will sound like while they still hear "acousticaly" from the open back.
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Post by unit7 on Aug 23, 2013 16:50:18 GMT -6
If you don't mind HP bleed (i don't) try the Sennheiser HD serie (HD580 and up). They are open back, comfy and i've never had a singer pull one side off so they sing into a stereo mix which reflex what the final song will sound like while they still hear "acousticaly" from the open back. A little warning with those though... You get feedback as soon as the singer cranks up the volume a little. At least on my HD600, 650 and 800. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2013 8:00:56 GMT -6
Never had feedback problems with these doing (very) loud rock singers and softer jazz singers. I always test HP mixes before the artists come in the studio and had my HD580 shaking on my head in front of a U87 and still was good to go. It must have been way to f*&$ loud to have feedbacks on open HPs. I think the drivers in the HD600 and HD650 are the same as in the HD580. ......or maybe i just got lucky  |
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