|
|
Post by cowboycoalminer on Aug 26, 2014 20:29:43 GMT -6
I've been in George's room at Blackbird. I thought it was amazing. And I have to say I'm surprised he holds that opinion of Nashville. Some of the best in the world work there everyday and are every bit as good at what they do as he is. His opinion states that no one there has an original thought. That may be true for mainstream label bullshit but nothing could be further from the truth for the town as a whole. It's a melting pot for all kinds of (original) music. But mostly locals get to hear that stuff. Nah, my guess is he didn't much care for them because they wouldn't lick his boot heals. And they have no need to. There's nothing he knows that they don't plain and simple.
|
|
|
|
Post by gouge on Aug 26, 2014 21:09:34 GMT -6
If nothing else, George's studio is living proof that most control womb design concepts are B.S.. I laughed myself silly the first time I listened in there because I'd long suspected this to be the case, especially "LEDE." Flat reflected response, especially early reflections is the key. Bookshelves are some of the best acoustical treatment there is. Ethan Winer is considering coming back just to respond to this statement! 8) There is definitely something to be said for a room sounding real world great. For me, when i find a cool room, it's about as exciting as finding a bunch of ca$h on the ground, even if i never record there lol
i'll have a stab at it.
studio c has plenty of early reflections. probably more early reflections than most other rooms. the design idea is based around a highly diffusive environment which should provide an even response no matter where you stand in the room. lets not forget the room is designed in part to facilitate recording/mixing in the one space. |
|
|
|
Post by tonycamphd on Aug 26, 2014 21:55:33 GMT -6
I've been in George's room at Blackbird. I thought it was amazing. And I have to say I'm surprised he holds that opinion of Nashville. Some of the best in the world work there everyday and are every bit as good at what they do as he is. His opinion states that no one there has an original thought. That may be true for mainstream label bullshit but nothing could be further from the truth for the town as a whole. It's a melting pot for all kinds of (original) music. But mostly locals get to hear that stuff. Nah, my guess is he didn't much care for them because they wouldn't lick his boot heals. And they have no need to. There's nothing he knows that they don't plain and simple., dudes pretty much in a league of his own, besides his awesome discography, HE INVENTED THE PARAMETRIC EQ! I know you've heard of GML? and at the risk of stirring shit a little  he would've rightfully lost his mind over that Sturgill Simpson recording that came out of Blackbird. The SS music and performances are really good(though certainly unoriginal), but those clip distortion production choices are a total fail imo. I also disagree with Randge , IMO the engineer has an effect on the outcome of course, but AE's certainly do not make or break a recording, especially at his level imv, the musical performances and songs make or break all records no matter the sound quality. That's why i'd still listen to SS, they're great players/good songs to spite the bad recording. Also, his assertion that the mainstream music industry is lame, is right on imo, and that includes plenty of $ucce$$ful "artists" through AE's in Nashville, La, New York etc...clearly. And now that i've said all this, and the NV boys will be mad at me 8) i might as well add, what's the deal with the "Nashville's got the best musicians in the world" claim? I'd argue that La/ and New York have MORE musicians of, at the very least, equal skill sets? Does Nashville have a Jazz scene? |
|
|
|
Post by gouge on Aug 26, 2014 22:06:37 GMT -6
tony, you da man!!!
|
|
|
|
Post by Randge on Aug 26, 2014 22:09:51 GMT -6
Nashville has a pretty nice jazz scene. Small but growing. It has a huge hillbilly jazz scene that is ever present even in a world of dual rectifier amps and rock poses on stage. We will agree to disagree on the engineer having no power over performances making and/or breaking a record. Simply because when you steal a singers energy and spark during the capture aspect, it does effect the emotion and thus, quality of the recording. Maybe not for the average Joe who knows nothing about music, but it sure does for those of us who are always listening, learning and growing. With me knowing the Cowman as well as I do, I know what he is capable of. They missed it on every instrument and vocal on that recording. Nothing sounds remarkable on it. Trapped is how I hear it.
R
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2014 22:23:37 GMT -6
He sure seems unhappy and negative about everything. Lol
|
|
|
|
Post by cowboycoalminer on Aug 27, 2014 6:49:47 GMT -6
Nobody is mad Tony. Everyone has a right to their own opinion. And I'm not saying the man doesn't deserve his place in audio history. I've met George and shook his hand. He's a nice enough guy but I do take issue with his assessment of Nashville. It's been proven to me time and time again how truly talented some of the engineers in the vile are. And yes, the musicianship down there is that of fables. Untouchable IMO. Guys like Redd Volkheart and Mike Loudermilk that no one outside the scene ever hears of. There is an Army of men and women in town who have spent their lives honing a craft with little to no recognition because they love making music.
But I can see where some don't see the charm that I do if they never get to town. The crap that's coming out in the mainstream under the "Nashville" banner is truly that, crap. But that's not the Nashville I know. That's a product of the state of the industry. Probably 95% of the good stuff down there, you will probably never hear unless your physically there.
|
|
|
|
Post by swurveman on Aug 27, 2014 7:26:11 GMT -6
People rightfully obsess about control room design and treatment, but when George was talking about tracking everybody in the same room he said (I'm paraphrasing) "everybody can hear each other and see each other and the room is neutral, sounds exactly the same anywhere in the room."
I'm curious how many people here have that kind of neutral tracking room. And if you do, how you managed it to your satisfaction so that the room is "live" enough and versatile enough to track all kinds of music.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bob Olhsson on Aug 27, 2014 13:19:52 GMT -6
Motown's Hitsville studio was that kind of room as is old RCA studio A. They had separate control rooms but would have been fine working in the room with the musicians.
|
|
|
|
Post by dandeurloo on Aug 27, 2014 20:33:14 GMT -6
I have to be a bit outspoken here. Much of the recording he did while living in Nashville, like John Cowan's previous record 'The Massenburg Sessions" were, to my ears, lifeless, sterile and not anything to be all that proud of on the recording side. After touring with Cowan for 2 and 1/2 years, I know what the guy sounds like and it ain't that. His new record that dropped today is miles closer in the right direction. R Randy... outspoken...never.  |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2014 21:43:34 GMT -6
BTW, I was talking about Massenburg, not anyone here.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Aug 28, 2014 17:35:26 GMT -6
I have to be a bit outspoken here. Much of the recording he did while living in Nashville, like John Cowan's previous record 'The Massenburg Sessions" were, to my ears, lifeless, sterile and not anything to be all that proud of on the recording side. After touring with Cowan for 2 and 1/2 years, I know what the guy sounds like and it ain't that. His new record that dropped today is miles closer in the right direction. R Randy... outspoken...never. That's the problem: Nobody has an opinion around here. What a bunch of passive pusses we are! </sarcasm> |
|
|
|
Post by cowboycoalminer on Aug 28, 2014 19:10:23 GMT -6
This here is a good example of what I'm talking about, Tony. I watched Mike play this live one night at the Commodore on a Taylor acoustic and my jaw hit the floor. It was even better that night. He played some of the most original licks I've ever heard in my life. Like ole Hank said, he's a new note finder.
|
|
|
|
Post by Randge on Aug 28, 2014 22:27:33 GMT -6
Just an impromptu jam in Nashville.
R
|
|
|
|
Post by tonycamphd on Aug 28, 2014 23:41:31 GMT -6
Don't mis understand me, i acknowledge there are plenty of great players down there, i'm a fan of a lot of them.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bob Olhsson on Aug 29, 2014 8:22:44 GMT -6
If you want to talk about utterly incompetent record production, don't even get me started on Nickel Creek, I saw them live before I ever heard their records...
|
|
|
|
Post by Randge on Aug 29, 2014 11:23:13 GMT -6
Wow, have to disagree with you there, Bob. Paczosa killed it for me on their tones and vibe. Stellar mojo.
R
|
|
|
|
Post by tonycamphd on Aug 29, 2014 12:32:14 GMT -6
IMO, the recording process, be it sugar or shit, should have marginal effect on the outcome, it's all about the performance, case in point, listen to this shitty camera recorded song circa 1977, especially the intro part, and then about 3:50 in,...Swagtastic freedom of spirit! is an understatement, Bonham is f-ing ridiculous, and the band was just on fire!(if you bring song or perceived imperfections up here, you have utterly missed the point, and i welcome you or anyone you know an attempt at replication, infact, if you really believe it can be pulled off, i'll pay you to let me record you lol 8).
If any current band on earth could touch this kind of amazingly talented vibe, danger and raw excitement, i'd freak out over it! please bring it, i welcome it, any genre of music will do, even an attempt toward striving for it is good, or is this idea lost on modern musicians, I think this kind of magic is gone by my belief that musicians don't even recognize it, i hope i'm wrong.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bob Olhsson on Aug 29, 2014 13:50:18 GMT -6
Paczosa was the engineer and I totally agree he did a stellar job. He's one of the very best. Allison Krauss was the producer.
The performances absolutely sucked compared to what I'd seen them do several times on stage. They'd have been much better off with a live recording.
|
|
|
|
Post by swurveman on Aug 29, 2014 16:04:11 GMT -6
IMO, the recording process, be it sugar or shit, should have marginal effect on the outcome, it's all about the performance.... Great to hear that song live Tony. Thank you. They are the greatest band ever imo, because the structural aspects of songwriting and performing that people get confined by-tempo, verse-chorus-bridge-chorus, key etc.- Zep didn't limit themselves to. It's four great musicians playing great collaboratively in a very linear way where boredom seldom set in. Magic stuff. That being said, the fade in, reverb and delay of the mandolin on this song enhanced the performance to a level beyond performance imo. They were great at everything related to music. |
|
|
|
Post by cowboycoalminer on Aug 30, 2014 1:01:08 GMT -6
I think this kind of magic is gone by my belief that musicians don't even recognize it, It left with acid  |
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Aug 30, 2014 7:14:34 GMT -6
This kind of magic is gone because there are very few musicians left who can recognize a true musical genius who respects each of his bandmates as peers and is a true leader, not just trying to stake out turf.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bob Olhsson on Aug 30, 2014 13:09:15 GMT -6
Today you need to be able to afford a career as a musician while 40 years ago you needed to be good enough to earn a career. The Nashville A-Team, The Wrecking Crew and The Funk Brothers were the top players but not extraordinary at that time.
Pay for gigs and the number of gigs began declining during the '70s and, unfortunately, low pay for musicians has had consequences on the quality of the live music most people got exposed to.
|
|
|
|
Post by donr on Aug 30, 2014 16:49:05 GMT -6
One of the great things about Bonham was, he played like a Swing Era big band drummer. Can't think of another rock drummer who did. I heard a cassette recording in the '80's of a Zep rehearsal and just 2 bars in of Bonham playing by himself in a room, it already sounded like Led Zeppelin.
|
|
|
|
Post by matt on Aug 30, 2014 18:04:53 GMT -6
One of the great things about Bonham was, he played like a Swing Era big band drummer. Can't think of another rock drummer who did. I heard a cassette recording in the '80's of a Zep rehearsal and just 2 bars in of Bonham playing by himself in a room, it already sounded like Led Zeppelin. Don, you may have heard these tracks: They are from sessions for In Through The Out Door, 1979. Simply Outstanding. |
|
he would've rightfully lost his mind over that Sturgill Simpson recording that came out of Blackbird. The SS music and performances are really good(though certainly unoriginal), but those clip distortion production choices are a total fail imo. I also disagree with 
