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Post by mcirish on Nov 23, 2024 7:31:57 GMT -6
My favorite application for KM84 would be on acoustic guitar and some other acoustic instruments. For me, it sounded the best out of all the mics I have tried. But, it's a hard sell for me to spend over $2k for a pair. Think about what is in there. I built some GDIY KM84 clones and they were only a few hundred to make a pair. The capsule was the only downfall, but the 3U capsule makes it a very good mic now. Add to that... For acoustic instruments (not drums) an inexpensive Oktava MK012 will sound virtually identical on axis.
If they do have better pricing I would probably pick up a pair. Used ones go for stupid amounts of money now.
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Post by drumsound on Nov 23, 2024 9:29:04 GMT -6
I haven’t really followed it closely (because I’m not paying $7000 for a microphone) but I though the consensus was the reissue 67 was done pretty well. I have wondered how it compares to the BeezNeez BU67 mk2 There's $5000 difference in cost! I can't imagine that's $5000 just for a Neumann badge? That's what I was saying about KM84 reissue, is it really going to be that much better because of the brand? It's one thing if you're running a 'sound hotel' studio as Fletcher used to call them, but for those of us in the trenches where the clients are the artists, not engineers, it doesn't make sense to over-spend. I haven't, but they are affordable, and well respected and I doubt that the ones made by Neumann would be however many times the price better. There's no possibility a pair from Neumann will come in around 800 bucks. I bought a Schoeps CM6 MK4 And I'd of course love another to make a stereo pair .... and a few pairs of alternative capsules (the cost soon get's high doing that!) Those Schoeps sound amazing to my ears on acoustic guitars, vocals, over heads, pianos, percussion. How is an 84 better/ different? I'm sorry, I have no experience with Schoeps. Personally I’ve no issues with the km184. I must be missing something because I hold the 84 in similar regards. I used a couple of 184’s plus a KMS 105 to record an entire demo and it forgetting certain tech related issues sound-wise it came out really well. Not sure if it’s my chain, the way I mix or the instruments I use but it sounded smooth. Nothing peaky, I have used it direct to board before and it did appear a bit odd but seen as I’ll never use it in that scenario it’s sorta irrelevant. It’s fun trying out tons of expensive mic’s, reissues etc. but when it comes down to brass taxes I can easily do without. Might get some more stuff up on reverb. I think it's literally 'internet lore' more than anything that makes people shit on KM184s. Had Neumann used a number that didn't end in 84. If it had a different model number, people would have judged it for what it is, and not felt compelled to constantly compare it to the KM84. My favorite application for KM84 would be on acoustic guitar and some other acoustic instruments. For me, it sounded the best out of all the mics I have tried. But, it's a hard sell for me to spend over $2k for a pair. Think about what is in there. I built some GDIY KM84 clones and they were only a few hundred to make a pair. The capsule was the only downfall, but the 3U capsule makes it a very good mic now. Add to that... For acoustic instruments (not drums) an inexpensive Oktava MK012 will sound virtually identical on axis. If they do have better pricing I would probably pick up a pair. Used ones go for stupid amounts of money now. I did a session in Nashville and we used a KM84 on acoustic guitar and it sounded very much like acoustic tracks I've cut in my room with an MC012. |
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Post by Mister Chase on Nov 23, 2024 10:04:05 GMT -6
I haven’t really followed it closely (because I’m not paying $7000 for a microphone) but I though the consensus was the reissue 67 was done pretty well. I have wondered how it compares to the BeezNeez BU67 mk2 There's $5000 difference in cost! I can't imagine that's $5000 just for a Neumann badge? Think again.  |
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Post by Mister Chase on Nov 23, 2024 10:07:14 GMT -6
I haven’t really followed it closely (because I’m not paying $7000 for a microphone) but I though the consensus was the reissue 67 was done pretty well. I have wondered how it compares to the BeezNeez BU67 mk2 There's $5000 difference in cost! I can't imagine that's $5000 just for a Neumann badge? In all seriousness, I know what you mean. I now have 2 of the B67-269 v2s. Amazing. That's the sound I wanted and couldn't ever get. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 23, 2024 10:10:25 GMT -6
My favorite application for KM84 would be on acoustic guitar and some other acoustic instruments. For me, it sounded the best out of all the mics I have tried. But, it's a hard sell for me to spend over $2k for a pair. Think about what is in there. I built some GDIY KM84 clones and they were only a few hundred to make a pair. The capsule was the only downfall, but the 3U capsule makes it a very good mic now. Add to that... For acoustic instruments (not drums) an inexpensive Oktava MK012 will sound virtually identical on axis. If they do have better pricing I would probably pick up a pair. Used ones go for stupid amounts of money now. If you can find a pair for $2k, PLEASE LET ME KNOW. I’ll buy them immediately. |
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Post by Shadowk on Nov 23, 2024 10:21:03 GMT -6
I have wondered how it compares to the BeezNeez BU67 mk2 There's $5000 difference in cost! I can't imagine that's $5000 just for a Neumann badge? Think again. View AttachmentThere’s the whole business costs thing surrounding that as well, when you factor in labour costs alone it gets pretty expensive. It’s just like anything, I can put together a pc and compared to off the shelf it will be twice as fast, a fraction of the cost and just as stable. Although I don’t charge myself anything for it, if I did it would create lemon faces. Same as pro audio, I repaired a 4k strip.. Multiple things wrong and the parts were no more than 45 bucks.. Sure, I think pro audio prices are extortionate but in the grand scheme there’s not much that isn’t nowadays and unfortunately I don’t have the time nor the will to do everything myself. DAV stuff gets a good rep, it’s cheap but corners are cut in the right places I guess. |
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Post by tonycamphd on Nov 23, 2024 10:28:57 GMT -6
I have wondered how it compares to the BeezNeez BU67 mk2 There's $5000 difference in cost! I can't imagine that's $5000 just for a Neumann badge? Think again. View AttachmentWhere’s that dang hot tub Time Machine? Microphones are such basic tech, I built so many at this point, a top of the heap U47 clone with hard sourced NOS parts is about $2k diy complete, the cost is primarily from machining housings, capsules and trannys, the vf14 magic is utter nonsense imo, a fair one off build price is about $2k, bulk manufacturer efficiencies bring the material and labor cost way WAY down So imv anything above $4k is paying for lore Of course this is jmo, but I’ll put up a blind with original vs clone and you will NOT pick them out from one another unless you know them intimately, and that would be based on quirks, been there done that |
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Post by Mister Chase on Nov 23, 2024 11:16:06 GMT -6
Where’s that dang hot tub Time Machine? Microphones are such basic tech, I built so many at this point, a top of the heap U47 clone with hard sourced NOS parts is about $2k diy complete, the cost is primarily from machining housings, capsules and trannys, the vf14 magic is utter nonsense imo, a fair one off build price is about $2k, bulk manufacturer efficiencies bring the material and labor cost way WAY down So imv anything above $4k is paying for lore Of course this is jmo, but I’ll put up a blind with original vs clone and you will NOT pick them out from one another unless you know them intimately, and that would be based on quirks, been there done that I saw folks pick Ben's B67 from his blind A/B with his vintage Neumann on the other site. I know the Neumann looks like pretty amazing inside and as a builder of things I do appreciate that level of detail etc(which is present in any mic BN chooses to do that with, price reflecting), but there isn't anything wrong with the b67 mic inside and is very practical. And it's more versatile with it's dip switches. And I can actually afford it. I just want to make great music with that sound and so he has my enthusiastic support. Im grateful someone decided to get this sound right. |
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Post by Ward on Nov 23, 2024 11:26:33 GMT -6
Guess he’s describing the sound of the 56 there…I don’t think of 84s as “having sparkle” and they don’t have a tube. I’ve only used the 56 a couple times and thought they could be a little bright compared to the 84. Ever heard the acoustic guitar sound on 'Russian Hill' by Jellyfish? That's the sound. |
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Post by Ward on Nov 23, 2024 11:30:26 GMT -6
Should add... I don't know what Puig used for it, but when I use mine, it sounds very similar to this.
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Post by andersmv on Nov 23, 2024 11:34:12 GMT -6
The time to have done this was like 10-15 years ago when the prices on the vintage ones shot up and there weren't really any clones of the original, transformer based 84. Now there's probably dozens of companies doing some pretty decent clones (for the money) and a lot of other colorful options. Even if Neumann were able to do a "true" KM-84 clone at under $1500/mic, I could care less right now (but would have cared 15 years ago). Quite honestly, as soon as the Soyuz small caps came along, I stopped caring about 84'ish stuff. The torch was passed and there's too many other goo options now.
I would still love to see them do it, and I would definitely want to try them. However, I'm guessing a reissue would somehow ask "stupid money" as far as price point, and I have a gut feeling I would prefer the Soyuz small caps anyway for MUCH cheaper.
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Post by ab101 on Nov 23, 2024 11:54:14 GMT -6
Here is a guess: The M49V and 67ri are arguably about 1/2 the price of a vintage one in great condition.
If that is any guide: A great pair of KM84s might go for $6000 used. So, maybe about $3000 a pair? And I think they would sell a lot for that price. Also, I would bet that a lot more people buy the KM84s than the other reissues, which would perhaps lower the price because of the quantity difference.
A wild guess!
And the good news: we will not have to discuss what tube they are using! And apparently the capsules that they still make are as good as the prior ones. I am not sure about the transformer and it's availability.
This would be a great thread for Klaus to weigh in - and Neumann may have already been in touch with him.
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Post by tonycamphd on Nov 23, 2024 11:57:15 GMT -6
Should add... I don't know what Puig used for it, but when I use mine, it sounds very similar to this. guitar got a zep vibe to it, i've always loved this band |
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Post by crillemannen on Nov 23, 2024 12:13:42 GMT -6
The time to have done this was like 10-15 years ago when the prices on the vintage ones shot up and there weren't really any clones of the original, transformer based 84. Now there's probably dozens of companies doing some pretty decent clones (for the money) and a lot of other colorful options. Even if Neumann were able to do a "true" KM-84 clone at under $1500/mic, I could care less right now (but would have cared 15 years ago). Quite honestly, as soon as the Soyuz small caps came along, I stopped caring about 84'ish stuff. The torch was passed and there's too many other goo options now. I would still love to see them do it, and I would definitely want to try them. However, I'm guessing a reissue would somehow ask "stupid money" as far as price point, and I have a gut feeling I would prefer the Soyuz small caps anyway for MUCH cheaper. The Km84 is still magic. It just sounds right. Putting it up on an acoustic guitar is a aha-experience as well on drums. You can always argue the quality to price ratio which it maybe has surpassed to make sense. Still getting a pair would be a great investment both for the quality of your recordings but also financially down the line. Most brands has terrible second hand value. |
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Post by EmRR on Nov 23, 2024 14:03:59 GMT -6
Yeah 3k is the competitive price against Sennheiser, Scheops, DPA, Gefell, etc.
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Post by smashlord on Nov 23, 2024 14:06:34 GMT -6
Quite honestly, as soon as the Soyuz small caps came along, I stopped caring about 84'ish stuff. The torch was passed and there's too many other goo options now. I would still love to see them do it, and I would definitely want to try them. However, I'm guessing a reissue would somehow ask "stupid money" as far as price point, and I have a gut feeling I would prefer the Soyuz small caps anyway for MUCH cheaper. When it comes to drums, I definitely think I prefer the Soyuz to KM84s. I never understood the love for them there... don't get me wrong, they are good and I've used them on many records, but they are not like "WOW!" like a pair of Coles or U67s. |
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Post by tonycamphd on Nov 23, 2024 16:52:57 GMT -6
To me a paired Km84 on acoustic with a LDC on vox always creates an audio visual of a tiny guitar’d huge headed singer songwriter😂  |
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Post by russellcreekps on Nov 23, 2024 18:47:13 GMT -6
I haven’t really followed it closely (because I’m not paying $7000 for a microphone) but I though the consensus was the reissue 67 was done pretty well. I have wondered how it compares to the BeezNeez BU67 mk2 There's $5000 difference in cost! I can't imagine that's $5000 just for a Neumann badge? The BU67 is the first time I’ve bought a ‘clone’ and haven’t continued lusting after the original. Seems there are some okay clones of the 84 out there but I listened to a shootout awhile back that had some of the usual suspects (against the original) and none of them got me to the point where I would buy them instead of a vintage 84. I’d buy a reissue for sure. |
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