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Post by peterr on Nov 6, 2024 21:23:55 GMT -6
On a different thread, someone was saying that AS products are fully manufactured in the U.S. Is that true? If so, I have to say their price/quality ratio is incredible. Wanted to buy from a different US maker, but their prices are way higher for the same product.
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Post by doubledog on Nov 6, 2024 22:38:02 GMT -6
Depends on what you mean by "Made in America"
From their website...
The Place: we make our gear-Manufacturing in the US has its advantages when breathing new life into old designs. A lot of the original parts that we’re (sic) used are readily available here. We can (sic) overstate how important that is to the final product.
Obviously they need someone to help proof read their website lol.
However, anyone that knows, knows that many electronic components are not made in the USA. Most circuit boards are not made in the USA either. The chassis' are probably not made in the USA. But it can be "Assembled in the USA" (and final assembly does not have to be much) and still claim "Made in the USA".
btw, if it was made in Canada or Mexico, that is still in North America... so is it "Made in America"? just curious...
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Post by copperx on Nov 6, 2024 23:04:05 GMT -6
Obviously they need someone to help proof read their website lol. Still miles ahead of Empirical Labs manuals, which have a typo or grammar error in every sentence. It's like they don't even use spell check. I'm even starting to believe Dave Derr is an actual typo and not his real last name. 🥲 |
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Post by copperx on Nov 6, 2024 23:08:25 GMT -6
Depends on what you mean by "Made in America" From their website... The Place: we make our gear-Manufacturing in the US has its advantages when breathing new life into old designs. A lot of the original parts that we’re (sic) used are readily available here. We can (sic) overstate how important that is to the final product.Obviously they need someone to help proof read their website lol. However, anyone that knows, knows that many electronic components are not made in the USA. Most circuit boards are not made in the USA either. The chassis' are probably not made in the USA. But it can be "Assembled in the USA" (and final assembly does not have to be much) and still claim "Made in the USA". btw, if it was made in Canada or Mexico, that is still in North America... so is it "Made in America"? just curious... Yeah, there's a loophole in the law. As long as the final assembly is in the USA you can say "Made in America." You bring a good point. Made in Mexico is technically made in America, so it wouldn't be false advertisement haha. |
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Post by seawell on Nov 7, 2024 0:34:32 GMT -6
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 7, 2024 2:49:50 GMT -6
Hmm, stating you make your gear in USA, to me doesn’t mean every part in the piece of gear was made in the USA, but neither has the work been offshored.
So, you know, you are supporting US workers and a certain acceptable not mysterious level of QC.
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Post by thehightenor on Nov 7, 2024 3:40:53 GMT -6
I’ve always presumed the boards are populated with components by hand at AS.
Is that not the case?
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 7, 2024 5:57:52 GMT -6
It says hand built. I think this thread inadvertently creates the impression that AS gear isn’t assembled, soldered and tested in the USA.
In making electronics, who has a build list 100% created in USA?
Anybody ?
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Post by doubledog on Nov 7, 2024 10:02:53 GMT -6
It says hand built. I think this thread inadvertently creates the impression that AS gear isn’t assembled, soldered and tested in the USA. In making electronics, who has a build list 100% created in USA? Anybody ? I don't think anyone here is saying it is not assembled or tested in the USA, just trying to further define what is meant by "made in America". I think my point earlier is the same as what you are saying. Most (if not all) of the electronics components (resistors, capacitors, transistors, etc) are made overseas. Some transformers are wound here, depends on the type/brand. Metal work can be done in the USA but probably not at these prices-so my guess is the fabrication is done overseas, or at least out of the USA. I don't know of anyone that makes circuit boards in the USA anymore and it would be interesting to hear from Audioscape themselves if they are 100% stuffing and soldering all of the components or if that is done elsewhere. TBH it probably doesn't matter because the law still allows them to screw the cover on and call it "Assembled in the USA". While I'm in the US and like to see US jobs, I'm also not saying that it can't be done well outside of the USA. If you are willing to pay for high quality, you can get it from just about anywhere in the world. The USA largely is no longer used to paying those prices (which is why we have disposable everything, and Behringer lol). You can get poor QC in the US too if you only pay for "cheap". |
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Post by doubledog on Nov 7, 2024 10:10:40 GMT -6
not trying to muddy the waters, but I like how Mojave is very clear about how it works... mojaveaudio.com/about-us/What makes Mojave different? A Mojave microphone’s journey begins and ends in Burbank, CA. US made Jensen transformers and NOS (new old stock) tubes are shipped offshore and mated to capsules and bodies, according to David Royer‘s design specifications, at a highly respected factory that David has worked with for over 15 years. All Mojave microphones are constructed with respect to David’s unprecedented research and attention to electronic design and quality. After assembly, they are shipped back to Burbank for extensive QC inspections. Prior to packaging, every mic is burned in for 24 hours, tested and personally listened to by David.So is that made in the USA? Dang it, that water is muddy... |
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 7, 2024 11:10:10 GMT -6
No, we are not saying the same thing, yes, I agree that some parts are likely manufacture not in the states, but that as much as possible is done in the states.
No offence, but doesn’t pretty well everyone not manufacture their wafer boards and many basic parts, so what is your real concern?
As AS knows it is typically selling to a relatively aware client, is this just a topic of conversation for you?
Perhaps, just internet comms, but it seems implicitly critical or negative, what does it really matter ?
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Post by christopher on Nov 7, 2024 11:16:20 GMT -6
Edited.. I’m just too busy to get excited lol
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Post by tonycamphd on Nov 7, 2024 11:21:21 GMT -6
Can't speak to Audioscape, but it is common for US manufacturers to have pcbs etched and populated by 12 year old factory workers in other country's, they then take completed pcb's, psu's, chassis, ribbon cables and have an assembly person in the usa plugem all together, then they brag and advertise "american made".
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Post by bossanova on Nov 7, 2024 13:13:30 GMT -6
I am getting the sense that a lot of this comes down to accepting that the US doesn't even have the capability to manufacture the core components anymore, if it ever did in some cases.
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Post by sean on Nov 7, 2024 15:08:07 GMT -6
Like bossanova said, I think it’s unrealistic to expect any company to source every component used in their product from America…I think assembled in the US should be enough for anyone who cares…especially in electronics.
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Post by Dan on Nov 7, 2024 15:28:40 GMT -6
Like bossanova said, I think it’s unrealistic to expect any company to source every component used in their product from America…I think assembled in the US should be enough for anyone who cares… The USA makes some excellent audio gear: Shure, Josephson, Audix, Grace, Millennia, Apogee, Crane Song, Lynx, Metric Halo, Meyer, Manley, GML, Empirical Labs, Chandler, etc. People just want an ersatz of the usually far less distorted past as a magic bullet to hide their poor recordings and boring music. The dumb down happened long ago.
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Post by chessparov on Nov 7, 2024 15:31:38 GMT -6
We knew Coronavirus couldn’t last forever. ( Made in China)  Ketchup later… Chris |
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Post by sean on Nov 7, 2024 16:05:13 GMT -6
Like bossanova said, I think it’s unrealistic to expect any company to source every component used in their product from America…I think assembled in the US should be enough for anyone who cares… The USA makes some excellent audio gear: Shure, Josephson, Audix, Grace, Millennia, Apogee, Crane Song, Lynx, Metric Halo, Meyer, Manley, GML, Empirical Labs, Chandler, etc. People just want an ersatz of the usually far less distorted past as a magic bullet to hide their poor recordings and boring music. The dumb down happened long ago.
Yes but I don’t know if those companies are able to source every component…knob, capacitors, resistors, processors, switches, circuit boards, meters, LEDs…that’s a lot of different manufacturers. But, I mean, I doubt single piece of furniture, clothing, or electronic sold at Wal-Mart or Target is made or manufactured in America… |
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 7, 2024 16:08:41 GMT -6
I am getting the sense that a lot of this comes down to accepting that the US doesn't even have the capability to manufacture the core components anymore, if it ever did in some cases. We don’t make anything in the US. Our main export has been the US dollar and now that those in charge were asleep at the wheel and allowed the Petrodollar to stop using the US dollar - no one wants it anymore. BRICS is going to change the standard of living in the US if people don’t wake the fuck up. |
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Post by ragan on Nov 7, 2024 16:14:02 GMT -6
Has Audioscape ever claimed to be populating their PCBs in the US? I doubt they are, at their prices, though I have no specific knowledge of it.
I always suspect there is some overseas design/layout happening too. Again, I have no specific knowledge of what Audioscape is doing. But, ever notice how like Stam/Audioscape/Warm/Behringer/Heritage/etc will all suddenly have, say, a 33609?
This happens with mics. 3U will design a C800 voiced capsule and suddenly 12 companies have a C800 style mic coming out.
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Post by ragan on Nov 7, 2024 16:17:19 GMT -6
I work in a large scale PCBA design/manufacture/test environment. It is very expensive and involved.
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Post by doubledog on Nov 7, 2024 16:19:25 GMT -6
No, we are not saying the same thing, yes, I agree that some parts are likely manufacture not in the states, but that as much as possible is done in the states. No offence, but doesn’t pretty well everyone not manufacture their wafer boards and many basic parts, so what is your real concern? As AS knows it is typically selling to a relatively aware client, is this just a topic of conversation for you? Perhaps, just internet comms, but it seems implicitly critical or negative, what does it really matter ? Ok, I guess I misunderstood your post. I was simply attempting to answer the OP's original question. I'm not concerned or offended by any of the discussion here and certainly not intending any of it to be critical or negative. My only slight criticism was of the typos on the AS website and I only pointed that out because I was using a direct copy and paste quote. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 7, 2024 16:24:06 GMT -6
No, we are not saying the same thing, yes, I agree that some parts are likely manufacture not in the states, but that as much as possible is done in the states. No offence, but doesn’t pretty well everyone not manufacture their wafer boards and many basic parts, so what is your real concern? As AS knows it is typically selling to a relatively aware client, is this just a topic of conversation for you? Perhaps, just internet comms, but it seems implicitly critical or negative, what does it really matter ? Ok, I guess I misunderstood your post. I was simply attempting to answer the OP's original question. I'm not concerned or offended by any of the discussion here and certainly not intending any of it to be critical or negative. My only slight criticism was of the typos on the AS website and I only pointed that out because I was using a direct copy and paste quote. All good, we understand the language on the AS website differently.  |
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Post by doubledog on Nov 7, 2024 16:28:59 GMT -6
Like bossanova said, I think it’s unrealistic to expect any company to source every component used in their product from America…I think assembled in the US should be enough for anyone who cares… The USA makes some excellent audio gear: Shure, Josephson, Audix, Grace, Millennia, Apogee, Crane Song, Lynx, Metric Halo, Meyer, Manley, GML, Empirical Labs, Chandler, etc. People just want an ersatz of the usually far less distorted past as a magic bullet to hide their poor recordings and boring music. The dumb down happened long ago.
But even those products mentioned above are not likely 100% sourced and assembled with USA made parts (current US law still allows them to carry the "made in the USA" label). It's probably not even possible anymore for most designs (it was possible - just very long ago and for an older technology). Doesn't mean it is good or bad, it's just the way it is today. I'll say it again, you can get high-quality from lots of places if you are willing to pay for it. |
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Post by ericn on Nov 7, 2024 16:37:09 GMT -6
I can’t remember the percentages, but there are actual standards you have to meet for the terms “assembled in the USA” & “ Made in the USA”. Google is your friend.
We actually do more small scale manufacturing than we used to, a ton of companies realized in the long run it was cheaper and easier than having your stuff made in China only to discover the were building your design for anyone else who wanted it & then they had to defend their IP.
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