ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,098 
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Post by ericn on Aug 14, 2014 21:41:12 GMT -6
Man I haven't read a great DrBill rant in so long! Bill tell us like it is!
Hey Bill I want to hear what you think of Kim Kardashiands Book of selfies!
We must all remind ourselves it ain't about art it's all about selling!
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Post by swurveman on Aug 15, 2014 6:49:52 GMT -6
Sounds like Neil Young circa 1977 with an Elka string machine, a cheesy Roland drum box and a fostex 1/4" 8 track with DBX NR. I agree. Only Neil wouldn't have THAT much reverb. Reverb's getting out of control!!!! |
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Post by Ward on Aug 15, 2014 7:18:54 GMT -6
Sounds like Neil Young circa 1977 with an Elka string machine, a cheesy Roland drum box and a fostex 1/4" 8 track with DBX NR. I agree. Only Neil wouldn't have THAT much reverb. Reverb's getting out of control!!!! Mr. Young wouldn't have used that much because there were no digital reverbs... otherwise? All bets are off!! Southern man doesn't need him around, anyhow. As for the Fostex?Dear Dr. Bill,
After extensive diagnosis we could not find the problem with your Fostex R8/80's dbx noise reduction system because it is absent and instead we found a Dolby C noise reduction system, which all Foste units had up until their 24 track 1" machine which had Dobly S.
Sincerely,
He who retains WAY too much (debate-ably) useless info.[/i][/b] |
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Post by drbill on Aug 15, 2014 21:46:04 GMT -6
Man I haven't read a great DrBill rant in so long! Bill tell us like it is! Hey Bill I want to hear what you think of Kim Kardashiands Book of selfies! We must all remind ourselves it ain't about art it's all about selling! Don't know anything about Kim's Book, and I think I detect a hint of sarcasm, but I think a good balance of selling and art is what it takes to sustain a career. Too much Art, and you'll likely burn out and be unsustainable. Too much selling and you lost what you signed up for. Somewhere there's a happy medium for most of us. Doing music as a career is all about finding that balance and holding on for dear life.... Maybe Kim really likes doing selfies... I think Moby's song is about art for him. (It has to be...otherwise, why???) If he can sell enough to meet his needs, then he's hit the target that allows him to continue, prosper and grow. |
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Post by drbill on Aug 15, 2014 21:49:25 GMT -6
I agree. Only Neil wouldn't have THAT much reverb. Reverb's getting out of control!!!! Mr. Young wouldn't have used that much because there were no digital reverbs... otherwise? All bets are off!! Southern man doesn't need him around, anyhow. As for the Fostex?Dear Dr. Bill,
After extensive diagnosis we could not find the problem with your Fostex R8/80's dbx noise reduction system because it is absent and instead we found a Dolby C noise reduction system, which all Foste units had up until their 24 track 1" machine which had Dobly S.
Sincerely,
He who retains WAY too much (debate-ably) useless info.[/i][/b][/quote] Cool. Thanks for the retro tech update. I had Tascam 1/2 " Eights during that period and they used DBX if my minds not playing tricks. Either way, DBX or Dolby....that lovable (?!?!?!  ) soft top end. heh heh But it had less NOISE..... right??? PS - good discussion. |
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Post by popmann on Aug 17, 2014 13:14:39 GMT -6
I wanted to clarify my position on the Moby....in case it was misunderstood--I think the music sucks. Defining sucks loosely as "that which I don't want to listen to ever again of my own accord"--and nothing more. It wasn't intended as commentary on his intentional distortion in digital recordings.
....which I TOTALLY "get"....in fact, it's been a "thing" in his world longer than mine--because electronica artists were digital a long time ago. And some purity of replication of reality in a recording isn't even a consideration--not much is a real acoustic phenom, so it's all about coloring in the way that achieves the emotional resonance you're looking for....and since arguably the golden/formulative years of recorded music are HELLA distorted (albeit not intentionally), that becomes a viable quality in the art form.
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Post by littlesicily on Aug 17, 2014 15:37:22 GMT -6
I think a good balance of selling and art is what it takes to sustain a career. Too much Art, and you'll likely burn out and be unsustainable. Too much selling and you lost what you signed up for. Somewhere there's a happy medium for most of us. Doing music as a career is all about finding that balance and holding on for dear life.... Agreed! |
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Post by tonycamphd on Aug 17, 2014 16:13:29 GMT -6
^This is precisely why i personally will never pursue a career as a recording engineer...again
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Post by drbill on Aug 17, 2014 16:50:52 GMT -6
AWESOME!!! Now.....if we can get another 20,000 or more engineers to follow your lead, we can improve the industry, and get things back up to par on an even keel again....  |
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 17, 2014 16:52:35 GMT -6
I am a whore only when it's necessary. Still try to write songs that have integrity though - even when whoring out.
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Post by tonycamphd on Aug 17, 2014 17:03:49 GMT -6
AWESOME!!! Now.....if we can get another 20,000 or more engineers to follow your lead, we can improve the industry, and get things back up to par on an even keel again.... Bill, lmao, there is not a single thing that pertains to music, no matter how small, in which i cant hand you your hat buddy 8) BTW; for the passive aggressive dude you've always proven to be, it's only natural to expect you to follow up ur stating "Not trying to be an A******", with being an ASSHOLE! 8) |
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Post by drbill on Aug 17, 2014 17:04:30 GMT -6
Mr.Kenn - There's a balance point, and a tipping point - no doubt about it. We each have to draw our own lines.... Some people hate country music, some hate hip hop, some hate jazz. For each of those, there is an equal number that will ONLY listen to hip hop or country or jazz. To each his own. Art is extremely personal. And doing art for a living is the highest calling IMO. But with it comes a big responsibility. You must be a juggler and balance at the highest level to make art and make a living doing the same.
I'd be willing to bet that the above-mentioned Moby piece is on the "art" side of HIS personal line.
ALL IMO of course. Not trying to be an A******.
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Post by drbill on Aug 17, 2014 17:11:21 GMT -6
AWESOME!!! Now.....if we can get another 20,000 or more engineers to follow your lead, we can improve the industry, and get things back up to par on an even keel again.... Bill, lmao, there is not a single thing that pertains to music, no matter how small, in which i cant hand you your hat buddy 8) Oh do say..... I suppose I'd better get back to the woodshed then.... Is that an official challenge? Cause it sounds kind of asshole-ish, and that's a rule breaker. What small part of music are you challenging me on?  I interpreted your previous statement in the vein of "you're a soul surfer, not a pro surfer". I'm well acquainted with both types of surfers. IMO, neither path is better than the other. Neither style of surfer superior to the other. They both have a beauty and coolness factor that cannot be matched by many things. I've said countless times that many are better off pursuing music as an Avocation vs. Vocation. Nothin' wrong with that. As a matter of fact, if I had all the info in my brain that I have now, and was just starting out, it would be hard to go the pro route at this stage of the game. But I'm an old timer, and it's all I know how to do, so the answer is obvious for me. There's NOTHING better than surfing every day all day and getting a paycheck. <thumbsup> |
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Post by tonycamphd on Aug 17, 2014 17:18:05 GMT -6
to be clear, what i'm saying is i'm a better musician and engineer than you, i'd put it to the test any day of the week 8) Besides the obvious whoring reasons i don't want to do what you do for a living, i can't handle the pay cut either.
BTW; your assertion "if we can get another 20,000 or more engineers to follow your lead, we can improve the industry" was the reason for me calling you an ASSHOLE!
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Post by drbill on Aug 17, 2014 17:24:13 GMT -6
BTW; for the passive aggressive dude you've always proven to be, it's only natural to expect you to follow up ur stating "Not trying to be an A******", with being an ASSHOLE! 8) Tony - I see you edited you post after the fact. I put that statement at the end of my post because SEVERAL times I have been called out on this board as being an asshole, when in fact, that was not my intent. Imagine getting busted for being an ******* when you were trying to make what in your mind was a valid point. Not encouraging or fun. Listen, what YOU describe above as a passive aggressive behavior bordering on "ASSHOLE-ness" is not that at all. It should be patently obvious that we come from different worlds. It's just how I see things, and how I express myself - no malice or passive-agressiveness intended. Our ways of "seeing things" have proven over time to be in conflict - but I don't believe that I should change my posts or beliefs to fall into line with yours. It's a big enough world to co-exist peacefully, no? So please - just put me on ignore or have Johnkenn ask me to leave - again. If my thoughts are not welcome to you or perhaps I should say the majority, then I should be ignored or leave. Let me know what works out best for you. I was recently ASKED by a mod via PM to post again, so I though I'd have a go at it and see how things went. Not too well it seems.... I'm happy to skeedaddle if that's better for all. I got no hard feelings against you bro. We just come from different worlds. JK - let me know how to proceed, but please, no deleted posts. I don't feel there's anything here that big boys can't handle. Thanks. No A**hattery intended. bp |
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Post by tonycamphd on Aug 17, 2014 17:29:44 GMT -6
telling someone that doesn't particularly like you, and vice versa, that you've had disagreements with in the past, that "the industry will be improved without them there", followed by a , is passive aggressive dude |
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Post by drbill on Aug 17, 2014 17:30:59 GMT -6
to be clear, what i'm saying is i'm a better musician and engineer than you, i'd put it to the test any day of the week 8) Besides the obvious whoring reasons i don't want to do what you do for a living, i can't handle the pay cut either. BTW; your assertion "if we can get another 20,000 or more engineers to follow your lead, we can improve the industry" was the reason for me calling you an ASSHOLE...ASSHOLE! What you are taking as a personal aside was a comment on the INDUSTRY, and being a professional in the INDUSTRY - not anything about you. In an industry where EVERYone who learns audio engineering ascribes to be a pro, the industry is over saturated, and THAT was my point, which I elaborated on with the soul surfer addendum. There is some hardcore beauty in doing what you love and keeping it separate from how you make a living. Personally, it's not for me, but I respect your decision, and wish about...um....20k more would take your high road. <thumbsup> Now for the musician and asshole part.....unlike you, I didn't call you an asshole. Listen, you may very well be able to "hand me my hat" as either an engineer, or as a musician, but that's hard do discern because I have no idea what instrument you play or what your production esthetic is. Nor do you mine. But the REAL question is : really, is that appropriate here? Is that passive-aggressive of me? |
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Post by drbill on Aug 17, 2014 17:36:21 GMT -6
telling someone that doesn't particularly like you, and vice versa, that you've had disagreements with in the past, that "the industry will be improved without them there", followed by a , is passive aggressive dude The industry would be improved financially without either of us involved. The statement is not pointed at you personally. It's purely a numbers thing and applies equally to any ONE of us. Nothing to do with talent, skill or experience - and again, see my above explanation - you are taking this completely out of context to how it was intended and waaaay to personally. ARe we having a communication breakdown or something. LOL |
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Post by tonycamphd on Aug 17, 2014 17:40:41 GMT -6
to be clear, what i'm saying is i'm a better musician and engineer than you, i'd put it to the test any day of the week 8) Besides the obvious whoring reasons i don't want to do what you do for a living, i can't handle the pay cut either. BTW; your assertion "if we can get another 20,000 or more engineers to follow your lead, we can improve the industry" was the reason for me calling you an ASSHOLE...ASSHOLE! What you are taking as a personal aside was a comment on the INDUSTRY, and being a professional in the INDUSTRY - not anything about you. In an industry where EVERYone who learns audio engineering ascribes to be a pro, the industry is over saturated, and THAT was my point, which I elaborated on with the soul surfer addendum. There is some hardcore beauty in doing what you love and keeping it separate from how you make a living. Personally, it's not for me, but I respect your decision, and wish about...um....20k more would take your high road. <thumbsup> Now for the musician and asshole part.....unlike you, I didn't call you an asshole. Listen, you may very well be able to "hand me my hat" as either an engineer, or as a musician, but that's hard do discern because I have no idea what instrument you play or what your production esthetic is. Nor do you mine. But the REAL question is : really, is that appropriate here? Is that passive-aggressive of me? this is fine^ but it seems like a retreat or a spin, it's hard to read what you wrote another way than a personal insult. I was originally stating that it's beyond me to deal with the everyday challenges/compromises of AE pop music, that is why i stopped doing it for a living in 1994, it was robbing me of my love for music all together. |
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Post by drbill on Aug 17, 2014 17:54:35 GMT -6
No retreat, no spin, no double take. Just you reading into it and flipping your switch way to easily IMO. That is just how I express myself. I am not Tony. I don't think like Tony. I probably don't even eat what Tony eats. I call it like I see it, no holds barred, but with NO malice. You seem to take that as passive aggressive or whatever, but it wasn't me calling asshole was it?
I'm not into walking on eggshells. I think a modicum of decorum should go far enough to keep the peace in the majority of situations. The mods are there for the rest.
Again, if RGO is to grow as it seems most here want, it needs to accept radically differing points of view. What if 50 hip hop artists joined this week and wanted to talk about nothing but beats. Or what it the musical direction of the board went towards EDM with their mindset after a hundred electro dudes joined up? IMO, the members of any "public" board need to expand the mindset of where they are at to accept differing points of view or they need to close it down and keep it a private club. Either way is legit, either way is good I think - but they have different goals, and I'd guess different rules or guidelines.
So what is it? Is my (evidently EXTREMELY) different viewpoint and way of expression OK here, or no? I've said things, and re-explained them about as best as I can at this point. Either you can handle it or not. I'm cool either way. RGO is not the only fish in the sea. Cheers, bp
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 17, 2014 18:25:55 GMT -6
Mr.Kenn - There's a balance point, and a tipping point - no doubt about it. We each have to draw our own lines.... Some people hate country music, some hate hip hop, some hate jazz. For each of those, there is an equal number that will ONLY listen to hip hop or country or jazz. To each his own. Art is extremely personal. And doing art for a living is the highest calling IMO. But with it comes a big responsibility. You must be a juggler and balance at the highest level to make art and make a living doing the same. I'd be willing to bet that the above-mentioned Moby piece is on the "art" side of HIS personal line. ALL IMO of course. Not trying to be an A******. Not sure why you addressed me with this. I basically agreed with what you said. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 17, 2014 18:31:53 GMT -6
No retreat, no spin, no double take. Just you reading into it and flipping your switch way to easily IMO. That is just how I express myself. I am not Tony. I don't think like Tony. I probably don't even eat what Tony eats. I call it like I see it, no holds barred, but with NO malice. You seem to take that as passive aggressive or whatever, but it wasn't me calling asshole was it? I'm not into walking on eggshells. I think a modicum of decorum should go far enough to keep the peace in the majority of situations. The mods are there for the rest. Again, if RGO is to grow as it seems most here want, it needs to accept radically differing points of view. What if 50 hip hop artists joined this week and wanted to talk about nothing but beats. Or what it the musical direction of the board went towards EDM with their mindset after a hundred electro dudes joined up? IMO, the members of any "public" board need to expand the mindset of where they are at to accept differing points of view or they need to close it down and keep it a private club. Either way is legit, either way is good I think - but they have different goals, and I'd guess different rules or guidelines. So what is it? Is my (evidently EXTREMELY) different viewpoint and way of expression OK here, or no? I've said things, and re-explained them about as best as I can at this point. Either you can handle it or not. I'm cool either way. RGO is not the only fish in the sea. Cheers, bp What I find interesting is that this board has been sailing along without incident for about three months. I chose not to ban you because plenty of people here seem to value your opinion. I noticed that even though you haven't posted for the last three months or so, you've been on this board practically every day. Why is it that we are in an argument 24 hours after you post again? |
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Post by drbill on Aug 17, 2014 18:50:49 GMT -6
Mr.Kenn - There's a balance point, and a tipping point - no doubt about it. We each have to draw our own lines.... Some people hate country music, some hate hip hop, some hate jazz. For each of those, there is an equal number that will ONLY listen to hip hop or country or jazz. To each his own. Art is extremely personal. And doing art for a living is the highest calling IMO. But with it comes a big responsibility. You must be a juggler and balance at the highest level to make art and make a living doing the same. I'd be willing to bet that the above-mentioned Moby piece is on the "art" side of HIS personal line. ALL IMO of course. Not trying to be an A******. Not sure why you addressed me with this. I basically agreed with what you said. I agree. We're in complete agreement I'd guess. I suppose I should have said that at the outset. I was just musing / thinking aloud on what you posted.... |
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Post by drbill on Aug 17, 2014 18:57:10 GMT -6
John - "We" aren't. I have no argument with you. Tony and I? Evidently, that's a different story. I have no problem with him, even after him calling me an asshole. I choose to believe the "issue" of our disagreements is because of past bad blood between us, a communication gap that seems to be impassable, and perhaps more to the crux of it - due to a style / mentality / form of expression / difference of experience / or what have you that is outside the range of comfort of tony. I dunno. I tend to get along well with others. Not sure what the deal is TBH. |
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Post by Ward on Aug 17, 2014 19:44:41 GMT -6
Let's discuss how badly 'Moby' needs a decent recording engineer and mixing engineer... granted, all their work could be for naught if the mastering engineer fries everything with the typical Loudness wars crap!
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) soft top end. heh heh But it had less NOISE..... right???
