Likely vocal mic upgrade - trying to zero in on an 87...
Nov 24, 2024 14:49:48 GMT -6
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Post by ironinthepath on Nov 24, 2024 14:49:48 GMT -6
I went on a crazy mic binge the past few years while I happen to be at a crossroads in my life. When I was young (20+ years ago) I could hear right near 20kHz, had much more trust in my ears, but very little money. Still didn’t trust my skills enough to go full time audio engineer (did run FOH live sound for five years though). Went EE in the end.
Now that I’m older, a bit more established (and married to a supportive woman who also works) I’ve got a limited time window with deteriorating hearing (probably in part due to that FOH gig) but able to temporarily “invest” in various high end gear pieces to compare apples to apples (imperfect subjective apples comparison mostly though) myself. Eventually I’ll have to sell the “test subjects” to support real life expenses.
Anyway, one sort of experiment/comparison I’ve been making is with the various Neumann U87 models out there, including some coverage of the board revisions. In case it helps I’ll summarize my subjective findings here.
1. My friend had a “daughter board” U87ai (which I believe is Rev 4, but might be recalling the revision incorrectly). It does have a slightly different texture (if I had to describe it)…my friend prefers it, but it wasn’t my preference. Certainly not a horrible mic or something (which some seem to imply). I’d describe it as a mild “fuzz” in the mids.
2. I bought an early 90s rev2 U87ai, capsule in good shape as far as I can tell. Smoother sounding compared to mic 1.
3. Bought two modern Rev 6 U87ai models which apparently go back, more or less, to the Rev2 circuit. I was surprised about how well they match, feel like no need to buy matched stereo pair at all…these were purchased used from two different original owners, serial numbers not super close but one is as new 2022. I was very careful to avoid the very convincing fakes out there for this current model.
4. Bought a U87i from the early 80s
5. Found another U87i from early 70s for a good price.
6. Bought a U67ri for another point of comparison (and obviously because of it’s deserving reputation)
Even 4 and 5 match pretty well if gain is fine tuned…both mics seem to have been very well taken care of, no major dents, etc.
Probably because of age, #2 has a bit less brightness and sits in between the tonality of the two modern Rev 6 mics and the two older U87i mics. They’re all truly professional options to my ears. The 67ri has some similar family characteristics but has a different midrange and the tube overtones are really nice.
Of the U87s above, I do like the older one best, just sounds like all those old recordings I like. I’ll probably keep longest
(A) the 1970s 87i (no strong preference over the early 80s u87i but the older one says “made in Western Germany” and that’s somehow mildly more nostalgic or something)
(B) modern 87ai pair, since they match so well and I like experimenting with stereo techniques.
The 90s 87ai is really nice, but it’s not paired with anything so if I’d likely sell it first. The only reason I’d sell 67ri would be greater potential to pay off a larger expense when the time comes.
I recently added to the experiment with a TLM170i: super nice underrated mic that should be in conversations comparing U87 caliber mics. Maybe in 2025 I’ll try to get my hands on a U89 (shares capsule with TLM170). From what I can tell, if you find the mild distortion of U87 mics a bit undesirable, consider trying these other Neumann variants: really smooth, still sound clear/“big”.
Otherwise, I’d bet a modern U87ai would be a really nice choice. I will say the limited headroom of the ai is apparent if you’re a loud singer though and it’s my understanding that the Klaus mods address limited headroom issues and some sources of distortion, including a transformer swap. I’ve tried using the pad to address this with the unmodified mics above: it obviously helps but comes with some tonal side effects to my ears.
Sorry for the novel, but I don’t think I have the bandwidth to do YouTube videos*(or the guts, considering my voice). Just trying to help out some, considering I’ve taken the plunge to do this.
-Chris
*I’d to point out crillemannen’s videos have been exceptionally helpful
Now that I’m older, a bit more established (and married to a supportive woman who also works) I’ve got a limited time window with deteriorating hearing (probably in part due to that FOH gig) but able to temporarily “invest” in various high end gear pieces to compare apples to apples (imperfect subjective apples comparison mostly though) myself. Eventually I’ll have to sell the “test subjects” to support real life expenses.
Anyway, one sort of experiment/comparison I’ve been making is with the various Neumann U87 models out there, including some coverage of the board revisions. In case it helps I’ll summarize my subjective findings here.
1. My friend had a “daughter board” U87ai (which I believe is Rev 4, but might be recalling the revision incorrectly). It does have a slightly different texture (if I had to describe it)…my friend prefers it, but it wasn’t my preference. Certainly not a horrible mic or something (which some seem to imply). I’d describe it as a mild “fuzz” in the mids.
2. I bought an early 90s rev2 U87ai, capsule in good shape as far as I can tell. Smoother sounding compared to mic 1.
3. Bought two modern Rev 6 U87ai models which apparently go back, more or less, to the Rev2 circuit. I was surprised about how well they match, feel like no need to buy matched stereo pair at all…these were purchased used from two different original owners, serial numbers not super close but one is as new 2022. I was very careful to avoid the very convincing fakes out there for this current model.
4. Bought a U87i from the early 80s
5. Found another U87i from early 70s for a good price.
6. Bought a U67ri for another point of comparison (and obviously because of it’s deserving reputation)
Even 4 and 5 match pretty well if gain is fine tuned…both mics seem to have been very well taken care of, no major dents, etc.
Probably because of age, #2 has a bit less brightness and sits in between the tonality of the two modern Rev 6 mics and the two older U87i mics. They’re all truly professional options to my ears. The 67ri has some similar family characteristics but has a different midrange and the tube overtones are really nice.
Of the U87s above, I do like the older one best, just sounds like all those old recordings I like. I’ll probably keep longest
(A) the 1970s 87i (no strong preference over the early 80s u87i but the older one says “made in Western Germany” and that’s somehow mildly more nostalgic or something)
(B) modern 87ai pair, since they match so well and I like experimenting with stereo techniques.
The 90s 87ai is really nice, but it’s not paired with anything so if I’d likely sell it first. The only reason I’d sell 67ri would be greater potential to pay off a larger expense when the time comes.
I recently added to the experiment with a TLM170i: super nice underrated mic that should be in conversations comparing U87 caliber mics. Maybe in 2025 I’ll try to get my hands on a U89 (shares capsule with TLM170). From what I can tell, if you find the mild distortion of U87 mics a bit undesirable, consider trying these other Neumann variants: really smooth, still sound clear/“big”.
Otherwise, I’d bet a modern U87ai would be a really nice choice. I will say the limited headroom of the ai is apparent if you’re a loud singer though and it’s my understanding that the Klaus mods address limited headroom issues and some sources of distortion, including a transformer swap. I’ve tried using the pad to address this with the unmodified mics above: it obviously helps but comes with some tonal side effects to my ears.
Sorry for the novel, but I don’t think I have the bandwidth to do YouTube videos*(or the guts, considering my voice). Just trying to help out some, considering I’ve taken the plunge to do this.
-Chris
*I’d to point out crillemannen’s videos have been exceptionally helpful
