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Post by drumsound on Sept 22, 2024 10:47:12 GMT -6
I remember there was a time where people seemed to be into using boundary mics (Esp. the Shure SM91) inside the bass drum. I don't have an SM81, but a couple of years ago I bought a pair of the Monoprice versions for about $50 fir shits and giggles. On a whim I put one inside the BD (along with a Sennheiser e602) and what I got out of it was mostly click and attack. It actually seems like it will be helpful come mix time.
I'm curious, is that why any of the more known boundary mics are used inside a BD, or is attack the reason to use one?
Who's into it, who is not? What made you like/dislike using a boundary mic inside a bass drum?
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Post by bgrotto on Sept 22, 2024 11:55:19 GMT -6
It's a pretty click-y sound, regardless of the mic used. That can indeed be really useful, esp for heavier stuff.
One thing I don't like, though, is the exaggerated click often means dynamic playing sounds really uneven and weird. For example, you get a super bright spikey attack on hard hits, while moderate or quiet playing results in much darker transients. This can make eq'ing in particular a big challenge, and also has a sometimes weird effect on compression. Basically, it just sorta takes what's happening tonally and dynamically, and magnifies it.
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Post by doubledog on Sept 22, 2024 11:58:41 GMT -6
for everything that I've heard where the SM91 was used, that seemed to be exactly what they do. Lots of click and attack. And most of those bass drums had a pillow or good deal of muffling. I don't think they would sound good without something in the drum to knock down the resonance/echo (probably kind of hollow, etc.). I don't have one myself either, but have used them with others.
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Post by drumsound on Sept 22, 2024 13:15:52 GMT -6
Thanks, guys. This makes me feel like there isn't a need to think about a more expensive model when this is doing the same job.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,083 
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Post by ericn on Sept 22, 2024 14:20:12 GMT -6
When the whole Boundary on Kick started it was always interesting to see what users were using as signal chain to get rid of the click. The thing is used as room mics you don’t get the click.
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Post by drumsound on Sept 22, 2024 14:48:32 GMT -6
When the whole Boundary on Kick started it was always interesting to see what users were using as signal chain to get rid of the click. The thing is used as room mics you don’t get the click. I've used the Monoprice pair on rooms a lot. They are cool there for sure. |
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Post by phdamage on Sept 23, 2024 8:08:12 GMT -6
I hate the beta91 click. So damn plastic-y. I feel the rare times I use something like that (Beyer d71c), I am always trying to take that click down a bit. Usually I use a dynamic and if I need some more click I’ll blend a sample in just a smidge
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Post by Quint on Sept 23, 2024 8:25:13 GMT -6
You could maybe use the boundary mic signal to trigger the side chain on a compressor, and have some fun with it that way. Sort of like a de-esser for your drums.
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Post by drumsound on Sept 23, 2024 8:56:02 GMT -6
You could maybe use the boundary mic signal to trigger the side chain on a compressor, and have some fun with it that way. Sort of like a de-esser for your drums. I hadn't considered that. |
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Post by smashlord on Sept 23, 2024 9:47:32 GMT -6
I use a Beta 91A all the time and love it. Easy, quick positioning is of course great, but it seems to have the right amount of smiley face for a lot of rock stuff where it guides you towards the goal, but still leaves you some room to tailor it to your own preferences, unlike a D6 or something of that nature.
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Post by Quint on Sept 23, 2024 9:52:38 GMT -6
You could maybe use the boundary mic signal to trigger the side chain on a compressor, and have some fun with it that way. Sort of like a de-esser for your drums. I hadn't considered that. Mind you, I've never tried this. It just occured to me that, if you have a mic with a frequency response skewed toward the high end, you could send that to a comp side chain, and then have that clamp down on those very plasticky high frequency sounds you've already stated that you don't like. I might have to try this myself. Maybe it'll work great. Maybe not. That's the theory, anyway. It'd be interesting either way. |
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Post by drumsound on Sept 23, 2024 10:28:49 GMT -6
I hadn't considered that. Mind you, I've never tried this. It just occured to me that, if you have a mic with a frequency response skewed toward the high end, you could send that to a comp side chain, and then have that clamp down on those very plasticky high frequency sounds you've already stated that you don't like. I might have to try this myself. Maybe it'll work great. Maybe not. That's the theory, anyway. It'd be interesting either way. It's not that I don't like what the mic/sound can add, I was just curious if that was to be expected of other 'pricier' models. Your idea is still good. |
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Post by tonycamphd on Sept 23, 2024 10:30:07 GMT -6
Did they use a boundary mic on this? My LEAST favorite kick drum sound of all time on an otherwise very cool song(this sound has D112 written all over it but something else is helping to push it into the fires of perdition😂)
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Post by drumsound on Sept 23, 2024 11:03:07 GMT -6
Did they use a boundary mic on this? My LEAST favorite kick drum sound of all time on an otherwise very cool song(this sound has D112 written all over it but something else is helping to push it into the fires of perdition😂) That's a pretty pushed forward BD mix. Drums in that are really upfront. I wonder if that's why you don't care for it. I could be a D112, but it doesn't sound as 'basketbally" to me. It's been quite a while since I had or used a D112 though. |
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Post by doubledog on Sept 23, 2024 13:18:10 GMT -6
Did they use a boundary mic on this? My LEAST favorite kick drum sound of all time on an otherwise very cool song(this sound has D112 written all over it but something else is helping to push it into the fires of perdition😂) I always thought that was assisted by triggering an Alesis DM4 or DM5 (which was a thing - metal guys would do it) and pushing it way up in the mix but i wasn't there so I could be way off. Listen to how there is absolutely no dynamics on the bass drum (which is why I say trigger/sample). But the SM91 has a similar "click". A lot of the drums on both Purple and Core had that same sorta kick sound... |
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Post by christopher on Sept 23, 2024 20:45:35 GMT -6
It never bothered me until someone called it typewriter kick. And ever since I can’t listen to metal without imagining old typing
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Post by drumsound on Sept 23, 2024 21:20:41 GMT -6
Did they use a boundary mic on this? My LEAST favorite kick drum sound of all time on an otherwise very cool song(this sound has D112 written all over it but something else is helping to push it into the fires of perdition😂) I always thought that was assisted by triggering an Alesis DM4 or DM5 (which was a thing - metal guys would do it) and pushing it way up in the mix but i wasn't there so I could be way off. Listen to how there is absolutely no dynamics on the bass drum (which is why I say trigger/sample). But the SM91 has a similar "click". A lot of the drums on both Purple and Core had that same sorta kick sound... Putting a lot of padding in a BD also pterry much takes the dynamics away, but Brendan O'brien said in the first hour of 3 in the recent Rick Beato interview that he almost always uses samples to augment drum sounds. It never bothered me until someone called it typewriter kick. And ever since I can’t listen to metal without imagining old typing That's amusing. |
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Post by forgotteng on Sept 24, 2024 12:58:09 GMT -6
I'm not sure I've ever used this without another mic to provide the beef. I also find it's helpful live but I've never loved it in the studio.
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Post by drumsound on Sept 24, 2024 22:22:07 GMT -6
I'm not sure I've ever used this without another mic to provide the beef. I also find it's helpful live but I've never loved it in the studio. My attempt with my cheap boundary mic was along with an e602 inside and a FET47 outside. |
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Post by frans on Sept 25, 2024 1:39:49 GMT -6
I call it the sound of chopsticks.
For uneven kickdrum playing, having a spectral conformer or multiband compression or any of those dynamic eq things is useful. After that, still a cup full of automation. I mean, there are many ways to record a kickdrum, those who want it to punch through two months of doubling through a dimed Mesa Recto like to have an extra channel with a chopstick mic.
For live i like a boundary mic on smaller stages as there is one stand less to trip over, eq-ing it to sound like a kickdrum.
Apart from that, the shell inside a kickdrum can be a natural resonator or small pingy reverb chamber... boundary mics pick that up. For that resason, some folks use a figure 8 inside the kick ... if you HAVE to have a mic in there.
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Post by smashlord on Sept 27, 2024 10:08:16 GMT -6
Beta 91A did the trick once again. Did a live session the other night and the chief engineer recommended some DPA the studio just got for kick in... tried it... sounded cool in solo, but was allllllll lowend. No mids to punch through the bass and guitars and I was cranking the mid band on the Neve. In haste, just tossed the Beta 91A on the floor of the drum and "voila!", punchy kick in the mix (with a FET 47 on the outside).
I will admit, the mic sounds not so pretty in solo, but since no one is going to hear it that way, it doesn't matter.
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