hoot
Junior Member
Posts: 68
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Post by hoot on Sept 10, 2024 18:30:31 GMT -6
Hi all,
Preemptively saying I’ve gone hyper-neurotic when printing mixes to the point that I set the A/C panel to “off” when printing mixes and sometimes even unplug the fridge. Normally I’d say “if I’m crazy, let me be” but I’m also doing a lot of remote bouncing and am at a paradox of not wanting to leave the gear on without A/C and obviously can’t leave the fridge off. I’ll be honest, I can’t hear a difference but concerned I “feel” one. Can’t tell if I’m just being psychotic and willing to bet I am.
Can someone with some credible expertise help me rest assured from a technical standpoint I’m being insane? I think I’ve gotten used to looking for the Audio Approved outlets at work and, seeing as I have none in my downtown apartment, it’s got me in a bit of a friz when it comes to “this is the final mix bounce, just do this to be sure you’d reduce any micro-buzz or whatever.” Everything is plugged into a furman if that helps. Main hardware is a Silver Bullet with a stereo lunchbox compressor on the insert
Thanks in advance! Hahah
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Post by nick8801 on Sept 10, 2024 18:34:55 GMT -6
Hi all, Preemptively saying I’ve gone hyper-neurotic when printing mixes to the point that I set the A/C panel to “off” when printing mixes and sometimes even unplug the fridge. Normally I’d say “if I’m crazy, let me be” but I’m also doing a lot of remote bouncing and am at a paradox of not wanting to leave the gear on without A/C and obviously can’t leave the fridge off. I’ll be honest, I can’t hear a difference but concerned I “feel” one. Can’t tell if I’m just being psychotic and willing to bet I am. Can someone with some credible expertise help me rest assured from a technical standpoint I’m being insane? I think I’ve gotten used to looking for the Audio Approved outlets at work and, seeing as I have none in my downtown apartment, it’s got me in a bit of a friz when it comes to “this is the final mix bounce, just do this to be sure you’d reduce any micro-buzz or whatever.” Everything is plugged into a furman if that helps. Main hardware is a Silver Bullet with a stereo lunchbox compressor on the insert Thanks in advance! Hahah Dude. You’re fine. Go get some fresh air lol. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Sept 10, 2024 18:38:47 GMT -6
Hi all, Preemptively saying I’ve gone hyper-neurotic when printing mixes to the point that I set the A/C panel to “off” when printing mixes and sometimes even unplug the fridge. Normally I’d say “if I’m crazy, let me be” but I’m also doing a lot of remote bouncing and am at a paradox of not wanting to leave the gear on without A/C and obviously can’t leave the fridge off. I’ll be honest, I can’t hear a difference but concerned I “feel” one. Can’t tell if I’m just being psychotic and willing to bet I am. Can someone with some credible expertise help me rest assured from a technical standpoint I’m being insane? I think I’ve gotten used to looking for the Audio Approved outlets at work and, seeing as I have none in my downtown apartment, it’s got me in a bit of a friz when it comes to “this is the final mix bounce, just do this to be sure you’d reduce any micro-buzz or whatever.” Everything is plugged into a furman if that helps. Main hardware is a Silver Bullet with a stereo lunchbox compressor on the insert Thanks in advance! Hahah Dude. You’re fine. Go get some fresh air lol. Ah, why, if you hear no difference: just stop doing it. |
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Post by doubledog on Sept 10, 2024 22:12:42 GMT -6
if you are feeling crazy, try one bounce with the fridge and one without and see if they null? Sometimes I don't even do a real-time bounce for my final files. Nobody ever complained.
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Post by chessparov on Sept 11, 2024 1:31:49 GMT -6
I still think a Mini-Fridge...
Is a little cooler.
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Post by thehightenor on Sept 11, 2024 1:41:10 GMT -6
Hi all, Preemptively saying I’ve gone hyper-neurotic when printing mixes to the point that I set the A/C panel to “off” when printing mixes and sometimes even unplug the fridge. Normally I’d say “if I’m crazy, let me be” but I’m also doing a lot of remote bouncing and am at a paradox of not wanting to leave the gear on without A/C and obviously can’t leave the fridge off. I’ll be honest, I can’t hear a difference but concerned I “feel” one. Can’t tell if I’m just being psychotic and willing to bet I am. Can someone with some credible expertise help me rest assured from a technical standpoint I’m being insane? I think I’ve gotten used to looking for the Audio Approved outlets at work and, seeing as I have none in my downtown apartment, it’s got me in a bit of a friz when it comes to “this is the final mix bounce, just do this to be sure you’d reduce any micro-buzz or whatever.” Everything is plugged into a furman if that helps. Main hardware is a Silver Bullet with a stereo lunchbox compressor on the insert Thanks in advance! Hahah Why do you hear "clicks" in the audio when you A/C is on? Make multiple prints of mixes and see if they null. Any noise on your mains that's getting through to your gear will be, by definition random, so you will hear any residual noise when you do the null test. If the prints null to total 100% silence then you have ZERO residual noise. It's a very easy to test to do. |
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Post by frans on Sept 11, 2024 2:18:35 GMT -6
Does the fridge make your mixes better? No? So you can switch it off. How old is the wiring in your house or your neighbourhood? Who did the grounding? When? Is it still 100% - have somebody measure it.
Really, nothing against a clean and working install at the basics. If you want to get totally paranoid, do a research into symmetrical power. And if, only have it installed by somebody who does this regularly. Not some electrician who never did something like it.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,083 
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Post by ericn on Sept 11, 2024 2:39:03 GMT -6
Yeah fridges, A/C units can induce clicks and pops, try cleaning the cooling coils it’s simple, no expense and sometimes actually works.
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Post by thehightenor on Sept 11, 2024 5:34:51 GMT -6
I use internet over mains adapters in my house (LAN over mains) "allegedly" they can cause issues with audio gear.
In reality, using a mains filter for my studio means I have no issues from LAN over mains, fridges, fans, lights being turned on and off in the rest of the house etc etc.
I mean in 20 years in my current house I haven't had a single "click or pop" make it to a recording .... or any residual noise whatsoever.
I attribute this to these following three important points.
1. Using a professional mains filter for my studio mains (which uses a star distribution system to avoid any ground induced hum)
2. Keeping paranoia in check
3. Possibly the most critical .... wearing a tin foil hat at all times whilst I'm in the studio.
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Post by doubledog on Sept 11, 2024 6:51:17 GMT -6
3. Possibly the most critical .... wearing a tin foil hat at all times whilst I'm in the studio. keep it in the fridge when you are not wearing it... extra cool! |
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Post by indiehouse on Sept 11, 2024 7:43:42 GMT -6
I use internet over mains adapters in my house (LAN over mains) "allegedly" they can cause issues with audio gear. In reality, using a mains filter for my studio means I have no issues from LAN over mains, fridges, fans, lights being turned on and off in the rest of the house etc etc. I mean in 20 years in my current house I haven't had a single "click or pop" make it to a recording .... or any residual noise whatsoever. I attribute this to these following three important points. 1. Using a professional mains filter for my studio mains (which uses a star distribution system to avoid any ground induced hum) 2. Keeping paranoia in check 3. Possibly the most critical .... wearing a tin foil hat at all times whilst I'm in the studio. Could you discuss your professional mains filter and star distribution system? What is it and how can I do the same? I feel like I deal with some grounding issues. |
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Post by pessoa on Sept 11, 2024 8:37:27 GMT -6
I must admid that I have a thing that I do not like to switch on/off stuff like the lamp or a synth in the same room/elwctrical circut while bouncing a mix.
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Post by drbill on Sept 11, 2024 10:37:50 GMT -6
Could you discuss your professional mains filter and star distribution system? What is it and how can I do the same? I feel like I deal with some grounding issues. The simple answer is : for every piece of gear - only one (1) ONE path to ground. All pieces of gear arriving to that central "star" point, which is grounded to earth. That's the simple answer. The real answer could quite literally be a book. Complex and often difficult to pull off. There are as many ways to pull this off as there are studio techs. Most follow the basic rules, but often implement it differently. Finding a good studio tech who has built multiple studios is your best bet. Or befriend someone who will spend a lot of time helping you sort thru stuff. There is info out there on the net. I recall a very long and detailed thread on the other site. To the OP - YES - refrigerators and HVAC can absolutely corrupt the electrical lines if your studio shares it's electrical with the house. There are various ways to deal with this - but if you're hearing anomalies, then absolutely try to alleviate them. If you're not hearing them - don't worry about it. |
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,083
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Post by ericn on Sept 11, 2024 12:58:45 GMT -6
Hi all, Preemptively saying I’ve gone hyper-neurotic when printing mixes to the point that I set the A/C panel to “off” when printing mixes and sometimes even unplug the fridge. Normally I’d say “if I’m crazy, let me be” but I’m also doing a lot of remote bouncing and am at a paradox of not wanting to leave the gear on without A/C and obviously can’t leave the fridge off. I’ll be honest, I can’t hear a difference but concerned I “feel” one. Can’t tell if I’m just being psychotic and willing to bet I am. Can someone with some credible expertise help me rest assured from a technical standpoint I’m being insane? I think I’ve gotten used to looking for the Audio Approved outlets at work and, seeing as I have none in my downtown apartment, it’s got me in a bit of a friz when it comes to “this is the final mix bounce, just do this to be sure you’d reduce any micro-buzz or whatever.” Everything is plugged into a furman if that helps. Main hardware is a Silver Bullet with a stereo lunchbox compressor on the insert Thanks in advance! Hahah I’m going to ask a pair of dumb questions, is the fridge grounded? If so did you check the ground with one of those outlet anylizers? |
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Post by thehightenor on Sept 11, 2024 14:35:04 GMT -6
I use internet over mains adapters in my house (LAN over mains) "allegedly" they can cause issues with audio gear. In reality, using a mains filter for my studio means I have no issues from LAN over mains, fridges, fans, lights being turned on and off in the rest of the house etc etc. I mean in 20 years in my current house I haven't had a single "click or pop" make it to a recording .... or any residual noise whatsoever. I attribute this to these following three important points. 1. Using a professional mains filter for my studio mains (which uses a star distribution system to avoid any ground induced hum) 2. Keeping paranoia in check 3. Possibly the most critical .... wearing a tin foil hat at all times whilst I'm in the studio. Could you discuss your professional mains filter and star distribution system? What is it and how can I do the same? I feel like I deal with some grounding issues. It was built for me by a studio electrician and I'm not entirely sure how it's wired but there's a central distribution panel that's goes to one single mains inlet which has some fancy device on it for filtering mains - it's based on there being only one path to earth. I've been using it for ages and in that time I have never had a single hum, click, pop or residual noise of any sort and that's with 40 mains devices plugged into it or extensions coming of it. So I can say it does work very well. |
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hoot
Junior Member
Posts: 68
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Post by hoot on Sept 12, 2024 3:53:15 GMT -6
Hi all, Preemptively saying I’ve gone hyper-neurotic when printing mixes to the point that I set the A/C panel to “off” when printing mixes and sometimes even unplug the fridge. Normally I’d say “if I’m crazy, let me be” but I’m also doing a lot of remote bouncing and am at a paradox of not wanting to leave the gear on without A/C and obviously can’t leave the fridge off. I’ll be honest, I can’t hear a difference but concerned I “feel” one. Can’t tell if I’m just being psychotic and willing to bet I am. Can someone with some credible expertise help me rest assured from a technical standpoint I’m being insane? I think I’ve gotten used to looking for the Audio Approved outlets at work and, seeing as I have none in my downtown apartment, it’s got me in a bit of a friz when it comes to “this is the final mix bounce, just do this to be sure you’d reduce any micro-buzz or whatever.” Everything is plugged into a furman if that helps. Main hardware is a Silver Bullet with a stereo lunchbox compressor on the insert Thanks in advance! Hahah I’m going to ask a pair of dumb questions, is the fridge grounded? If so did you check the ground with one of those outlet anylizers? Hi! I don't have a receptacle tester but can get one. What would I be looking for? I wouldn't want to ground-lift my fridge for general safety, right? Also, I want to reiterate to all that I'm in a downtown apartment. I think in this case, my A/C would be central to the building as opposed to something that shares with my general outlets, no? Thanks for everyone chiming in! |
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,083
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Post by ericn on Sept 12, 2024 8:19:06 GMT -6
I’m going to ask a pair of dumb questions, is the fridge grounded? If so did you check the ground with one of those outlet anylizers? Hi! I don't have a receptacle tester but can get one. What would I be looking for? I wouldn't want to ground-lift my fridge for general safety, right? Also, I want to reiterate to all that I'm in a downtown apartment. I think in this case, my A/C would be central to the building as opposed to something that shares with my general outlets, no? Thanks for everyone chiming in! No Im thinking make sure the ground conductor is actually grounded, you would be surprised how many outlets either have a ground just hanging or just concreted to the outlet box, not a grounding pole. |
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Post by Ward on Sept 12, 2024 8:44:06 GMT -6
We all deal with things in different ways, Electrical interference, RF, 5G art whatever the hell kids are complaining about theses days, exist and bother the hell out of me as well.
So I hired an expert gold-seal level electrician to put in 27 unique circuits on BX wire - all 20 amps, and run isolated ground by groupings down into the actual earth until bedrock. It worked, the studio's power and isolation is really good!
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Post by andersmv on Sept 13, 2024 10:30:14 GMT -6
Who knows how everything is wired at your place, more than likely issues related to a refrigerator or something are going to show up during the tracking stage when you have microphones and preamps going. I had a lot of problems that were power related when I first moved into my studio space here. I'm very rural down some dirt roads, my house is literally the last thing on the power grid. I would wake up some mornings in the middle of week long tracking sessions where the noise floor on all the mics was noticeably higher with a lot of other intermittent issues. Dirty power sucks and can really ruin things. I ended up spending a lot of money on a nice EquiTech balanced power supply, it thankfully solved all the issues I was having (which I consulted with an electrician and a studio designer before hand to confirm that would help fix the issues I was having). Aside from actually solving my problems, I have to be completely honest and admit that the EquiTech was worth it purely from a peace of mind standpoint. I do not think about power anymore. Every single thing in the studio runs through that EquiTech, I even have a long extension cord running from the EquiTech in the control room out to the live room so all my tube mics, guitar amps, whatever... Everything running in the studio goes through it and shares that common ground. Problems solved, no more thinking about power. Turning off the fridge every time you bounce a mix isn't a solution. You're just temporarily putting a gag on that OCD part of your brain. Get an electrician to come in and isolate stuff on your breaker box will probably solve a lot of your worries from a technical stand point, I have no idea if the simple act of hiring a professional to move some stuff around on the electrical is going to be enough for you to stop worrying about it. You don't have to spend thousands of dollars on the EquiTech like I did, there are cheaper options out there that do the same thing. I can only tell you how my brain works: "Buy once, cry once". Two of the best studios I've ever worked in have their whole building done by EquiTech, they were both extremely quiet without power problems. The EquiTech did it for me (both from a practical standpoint and a mental one). Go find your "EquiTech"  |
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Post by EmRR on Sept 13, 2024 11:02:15 GMT -6
My wiring is god awful, 80 years of build-ons. I used power conditioners until the fire inspector didn't like them, so they got pulled. No change, no problem. I just took them to E-waste today, freed up some space. What will get in is ticks from a nearby radio/cell tower, tube rectifier amplifiers, apparently there's a rectification mechanism with super high frequencies that will do this.
You either have a problem, or you don't. I've stopped questioning it when I don't.
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Post by drbill on Sept 13, 2024 12:53:38 GMT -6
I've done a lot of studio installs / consults. Sometimes the EquiTech's work fantastically. Other times, although nice, they just don't solve the problems. Each situation is unique, and you have to figure out exactly how to solve the issue(s). Takes time and determination.
Personally, I've always done star grounded studios until the one I am in now. When I moved here, I just hooked stuff up with no ground considerations, and it was amazingly quiet. No issues. It might even be quieter than my last couple of star grounded studio's - but I don't have a console in this one, so that might be part of it. So....this time around, I have not bothered to star ground the studio. Go figure.
It all starts with things being done "right" though. That's where the OP should start. The Equitech is a band aid. An incredibly heavy, incredibly expensive, and often an incredibly lifesaving bandaid (as in andersmv's situation) solution. IMO, it's not the place to start. It's the place to end up at if you can't get things right by addressing proper electrical issues. Some times, there are elements (neighbors and upstream uses) that you just can't fix.
Good luck!
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,083
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Post by ericn on Sept 13, 2024 14:12:23 GMT -6
I've done a lot of studio installs / consults. Sometimes the EquiTech's work fantastically. Other times, although nice, they just don't solve the problems. Each situation is unique, and you have to figure out exactly how to solve the issue(s). Takes time and determination. Personally, I've always done star grounded studios until the one I am in now. When I moved here, I just hooked stuff up with no ground considerations, and it was amazingly quiet. No issues. It might even be quieter than my last couple of star grounded studio's - but I don't have a console in this one, so that might be part of it. So....this time around, I have not bothered to star ground the studio. Go figure. It all starts with things being done "right" though. That's where the OP should start. The Equitech is a band aid. An incredibly heavy, incredibly expensive, and often an incredibly lifesaving bandaid (as in andersmv's situation) solution. IMO, it's not the place to start. It's the place to end up at if you can't get things right by addressing proper electrical issues. Some times, there are elements (neighbors and upstream uses) that you just can't fix. Good luck! Bill is right, the basic infrastructure is where it all starts. Unfortunately most of this infrastructure is inside the walls, up on the poles or underground. In many cases it’s impractical or impossible do anything about it. Yet I always suggest to start here and find the real issue. Contrary to what you find on the internet, please pardon the pun, there is no Silver Bullet. Each and every power device has particular uses, yeah most add copy & most gear pimps don’t cover these so you are pretty much on your own to dive down this rabbit hole. Grounding is probably the number 1 issue, unfortunately there is no magic box to deal with it. Stories of “ this worked for me” are completely useless unless the writer brought in an electrician who diagnosed the problem and you brought in an electrician who has diagnosed the same thing. The situation where the electrical inspector didn’t like all the conditioners doesn’t suprise me, anybody who has ever worked in the world of remote or SR knows different inspectors have different interpretations of the electrical code. Major pain in the ass but you learn to roll with it. |
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Post by drbill on Sept 13, 2024 15:25:24 GMT -6
I've done a lot of studio installs / consults. Sometimes the EquiTech's work fantastically. Other times, although nice, they just don't solve the problems. Each situation is unique, and you have to figure out exactly how to solve the issue(s). Takes time and determination. Personally, I've always done star grounded studios until the one I am in now. When I moved here, I just hooked stuff up with no ground considerations, and it was amazingly quiet. No issues. It might even be quieter than my last couple of star grounded studio's - but I don't have a console in this one, so that might be part of it. So....this time around, I have not bothered to star ground the studio. Go figure. It all starts with things being done "right" though. That's where the OP should start. The Equitech is a band aid. An incredibly heavy, incredibly expensive, and often an incredibly lifesaving bandaid (as in andersmv's situation) solution. IMO, it's not the place to start. It's the place to end up at if you can't get things right by addressing proper electrical issues. Some times, there are elements (neighbors and upstream uses) that you just can't fix. Good luck! Bill is right, the basic infrastructure is where it all starts. Unfortunately most of this infrastructure is inside the walls, up on the poles or underground. In many cases it’s impractical or impossible do anything about it. Yet I always suggest to start here and find the real issue. Contrary to what you find on the internet, please pardon the pun, there is no Silver Bullet. Each and every power device has particular uses, yeah most add copy & most gear pimps don’t cover these so you are pretty much on your own to dive down this rabbit hole. Grounding is probably the number 1 issue, unfortunately there is no magic box to deal with it. Stories of “ this worked for me” are completely useless unless the writer brought in an electrician who diagnosed the problem and you brought in an electrician who has diagnosed the same thing. The situation where the electrical inspector didn’t like all the conditioners doesn’t suprise me, anybody who has ever worked in the world of remote or SR knows different inspectors have different interpretations of the electrical code. Major pain in the ass but you learn to roll with it. Well articulated Eric!!! |
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,083
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Post by ericn on Sept 13, 2024 15:49:33 GMT -6
Bill is right, the basic infrastructure is where it all starts. Unfortunately most of this infrastructure is inside the walls, up on the poles or underground. In many cases it’s impractical or impossible do anything about it. Yet I always suggest to start here and find the real issue. Contrary to what you find on the internet, please pardon the pun, there is no Silver Bullet. Each and every power device has particular uses, yeah most add copy & most gear pimps don’t cover these so you are pretty much on your own to dive down this rabbit hole. Grounding is probably the number 1 issue, unfortunately there is no magic box to deal with it. Stories of “ this worked for me” are completely useless unless the writer brought in an electrician who diagnosed the problem and you brought in an electrician who has diagnosed the same thing. The situation where the electrical inspector didn’t like all the conditioners doesn’t suprise me, anybody who has ever worked in the world of remote or SR knows different inspectors have different interpretations of the electrical code. Major pain in the ass but you learn to roll with it. Well articulated Eric!!! Thanks Doc, but just imagine in my gear pimp days how often I had to try to fix a power issue after someone had blown their budget buying the box of the month from someone else😎 |
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Post by drbill on Sept 13, 2024 15:59:02 GMT -6
Thanks Doc, but just imagine in my gear pimp days how often I had to try to fix a power issue after someone had blown their budget buying the box of the month from someone else😎 ?? 3X's per day X 5 days a week X 50 weeks a year...... 7-800X per year? |
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