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Post by Johnkenn on Sept 9, 2024 13:34:06 GMT -6
Any thoughts on this? Price is certainly right and I’ve recorded many a thing through an 80b. matt@IAA jsteiger Locomotive Audio and any others…So what’s the difference in some of the eq’s you guys make and this one? I guess what I’m asking - what makes a good eq and a bad one? I mean other than tracking at places with consoles, I don’t have much time with outboard eq’s. I’ve just kind’ve held the “if it sounds good it is good” mantra, but maybe there are things I don’t listen for that you guys do? Are the negatives that this is all surface mount and cheap parts, etc? Come to think of it, this doesn’t have a transformer does it? |
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Post by jsteiger on Sept 9, 2024 13:40:05 GMT -6
I'm not really familiar with the 80b.
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Post by drbill on Sept 9, 2024 13:42:00 GMT -6
Correct - no transformers. They are "OK". Typical 90's console style EQ's. I wouldn't call them great, and I wouldn't call them bad. The trident lineage doesn't mean much to me. If you worked on typical consoles in the 90's (aside from Neves and API's) you've used similar EQ;s. They are mostly surface mount if that makes a difference to you. Makes no difference to me. They are what they are - a useful tool at times.
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Post by sean on Sept 9, 2024 14:00:14 GMT -6
As someone who works on a Series 80 daily I don't think theEQ's are special. I wouldn’t even say they are good. Sometimes the 8K or 12K shelf is nice. The low and mid bands get pretty phasey quick. They are not much different from most 80's designs based around TL072 or NE5532 op-amps, only they don't have adjustable Q. I think what made the Trident 80B so popular was all the routing and features for the price point at the time, not the sound of the EQ. An A Range/Daking is a totally different thing and are inductor based. I think if you wanted an op-amp based EQ that could get really surgical if needed I'd look at a SSL or Speck or something like that.
Usually what makes an analog EQ "special" are inductors, transformers, discrete op amps...things with a "sound".
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Post by ulriggribbons on Sept 9, 2024 14:00:25 GMT -6
Although the 500 series module looks surface mount, the original EQ's on the console were all through hole.
The console 80 series EQ was a fairly straightforward design using TL071 op amps throughout (there is a single NE5534 in the group mix amp of the input module). They work, but are not something to drool over, in my opinion.
I used to care/feed a Trident 80C with Diskmix automation for a studio here in Seattle.
$.02
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Post by ericn on Sept 9, 2024 14:01:04 GMT -6
300 for a very basic British console 4 band with mid sweeps? A little much, if you’re patient you could find a used 8 ch Soundcraft 200 sweep EQ console for less than the price of 2 of these with 8 similar EQ’s and a small console to boot !
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Post by Quint on Sept 9, 2024 14:55:00 GMT -6
Kush Electra.
These go for $400 all of the time and are a great eq in the opamp based eq category.
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Post by kbsmoove on Sept 9, 2024 15:19:42 GMT -6
i think trident 80 eqs are some of the best EQs for kick/snare/toms for metal/heavy rock. other than that, hit or miss - usually miss.
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Post by Johnkenn on Sept 9, 2024 15:32:38 GMT -6
Although the 500 series module looks surface mount, the original EQ's on the console were all through hole. The console 80 series EQ was a fairly straightforward design using TL071 op amps throughout (there is a single NE5534 in the group mix amp of the input module). They work, but are not something to drool over, in my opinion. I used to care/feed a Trident 80C with Diskmix automation for a studio here in Seattle. $.02 BTW - if you guys want a great clean pre at a great price, check out the Si from Shinybox. |
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Post by drbill on Sept 9, 2024 17:54:26 GMT -6
Although the 500 series module looks surface mount, the original EQ's on the console were all through hole. This is true. However, I believe Alan Hyatt from PMI has mentioned that the design is identical - but with surface mount equivalents. |
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Post by ericn on Sept 9, 2024 20:49:17 GMT -6
Although the 500 series module looks surface mount, the original EQ's on the console were all through hole. This is true. However, I believe Alan Hyatt from PMI has mentioned that the design is identical - but with surface mount equivalents. And that basic design is as common as the single chip mic pre. |
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Post by timcampbell on Sept 9, 2024 23:05:26 GMT -6
I always hated the eq section on the Trident 80b. If you want an incredible analog eq look around for a used tc electronic 1140. They are so powerful.
If you want something with more color the Gyraf DIY Calrec eq is excellent and such an easy build.
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Post by matt@IAA on Sept 10, 2024 7:16:49 GMT -6
what’s the difference in some of the eq’s you guys make and this one? I guess what I’m asking - what makes a good eq and a bad one? Things that matter: - Box tone. This is basically distortion from one source or another. High frequency distortion generally comes from the circuit (op amp, discrete class A etc) and low end from transformers. - Shape of the curves. Different designs have different curve shapes and sometimes pre-selected points that sound different. - Flexibility. Whether you can get the function you want from it - carve, shelf/bell, broad shaping etc. - Headroom. Some like to be pushed and some don't, and when you need to a healthy boost, headroom matters. Not sure how the 80b fits into that, I've never played with one. In my opinion based on my own testing a thing that doesn't matter: whether a design is SMT or not.  |
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Post by ericn on Sept 10, 2024 8:28:39 GMT -6
Since there is absolutely nothing special in this I do wonder how cheap you could DIY it, personally I would either grab one of the options Tim suggested or on the cheap a used, Rane, Audio Arts or Symetrix parametric for more versatility, with all sweepable brands and variable bandwidth pretty easy to mimic an 80B & then some.
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Post by ulriggribbons on Sept 10, 2024 11:36:23 GMT -6
When you look at DIY, it often comes down to finding where bang for the buck meets sonic bliss. If a couple transformers and a discrete op amp can get you in the ballpark of an API mic pre, for example, that's time and money well spent. I discovered this in the dawn of my interest in audio electronics, back when I was home etching circuit boards, and was chasing audio windmills because I had all the time and little $.
In looking at this EQ circuit, you can likely find something on the second hand market that sonically is an equal or better, has multiple channels of it, all for not a lot of $, and no time ( as I age, I value that time more than the $ ). I think you pointed out as much above =)
PS Thanks John, for the mention of the Si mic pre. I still have some stock of them, but most of my time these days is spent working on seismic sensors. We're working with NASA to put our sensor on the moon with the Artemis III mission. I check in here, because I will always be in love with audio. =)
Jon
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Post by Johnkenn on Sept 10, 2024 11:57:56 GMT -6
When you look at DIY, it often comes down to finding where bang for the buck meets sonic bliss. If a couple transformers and a discrete op amp can get you in the ballpark of an API mic pre, for example, that's time and money well spent. I discovered this in the dawn of my interest in audio electronics, back when I was home etching circuit boards, and was chasing audio windmills because I had all the time and little $. In looking at this EQ circuit, you can likely find something on the second hand market that sonically is an equal or better, has multiple channels of it, all for not a lot of $, and no time ( as I age, I value that time more than the $ ). I think you pointed out as much above =) PS Thanks John, for the mention of the Si mic pre. I still have some stock of them, but most of my time these days is spent working on seismic sensors. We're working with NASA to put our sensor on the moon with the Artemis III mission. I check in here, because I will always be in love with audio. =) Jon Wow...that's awesome! |
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Post by ragan on Sept 10, 2024 12:38:49 GMT -6
When you look at DIY, it often comes down to finding where bang for the buck meets sonic bliss. If a couple transformers and a discrete op amp can get you in the ballpark of an API mic pre, for example, that's time and money well spent. I discovered this in the dawn of my interest in audio electronics, back when I was home etching circuit boards, and was chasing audio windmills because I had all the time and little $. In looking at this EQ circuit, you can likely find something on the second hand market that sonically is an equal or better, has multiple channels of it, all for not a lot of $, and no time ( as I age, I value that time more than the $ ). I think you pointed out as much above =) PS Thanks John, for the mention of the Si mic pre. I still have some stock of them, but most of my time these days is spent working on seismic sensors. We're working with NASA to put our sensor on the moon with the Artemis III mission. I check in here, because I will always be in love with audio. =) Jon Hey I work on space stuff during the day and audio stuff at night (when there’s time, which is not nearly as much as I would like) too. High five! ✋ |
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Post by ragan on Sept 10, 2024 13:29:36 GMT -6
Also, ulriggribbons I think I met you a long time ago at Avast! while I was renting some things from Stuart |
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Post by ulriggribbons on Sept 10, 2024 14:39:31 GMT -6
Also, ulriggribbons I think I met you a long time ago at Avast! while I was renting some things from Stuart Yes! Stuart is the best! |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Sept 10, 2024 16:37:15 GMT -6
When you look at DIY, it often comes down to finding where bang for the buck meets sonic bliss. If a couple transformers and a discrete op amp can get you in the ballpark of an API mic pre, for example, that's time and money well spent. I discovered this in the dawn of my interest in audio electronics, back when I was home etching circuit boards, and was chasing audio windmills because I had all the time and little $. In looking at this EQ circuit, you can likely find something on the second hand market that sonically is an equal or better, has multiple channels of it, all for not a lot of $, and no time ( as I age, I value that time more than the $ ). I think you pointed out as much above =) PS Thanks John, for the mention of the Si mic pre. I still have some stock of them, but most of my time these days is spent working on seismic sensors. We're working with NASA to put our sensor on the moon with the Artemis III mission. I check in here, because I will always be in love with audio. =) Jon So what you’re saying is my vintage Mercenary Shirt is wrong? It is Rocket Surgery 😁 |
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