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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 30, 2024 14:16:43 GMT -6
I bet having a better DA from the headphone cue system makes a big difference. But I might be inventing issues. I'm starting to think I just suck and it's just the way it is.
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Post by wiz on Aug 30, 2024 15:52:06 GMT -6
I have a custom built headphone amp from pro harmonic……it made a world of difference for me above something like the Apollo headphone outputs…and other interface headphone amps I have had in the past.
I use extreme isolation cans……I have two sets of those…and a set of DT150s…….i have a favourite pair of the extremes I use….lord knows what I will do if they break.
The Proharmonic headphone amp is based in part on some JLM audio parts……
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Post by bossanova on Aug 30, 2024 15:55:59 GMT -6
I think to some degree it also helps having someone else running the headphone/monitor mix. I sometimes struggle with getting the balance between too much or too little vocal, and consequently under or over singing when I'm recording in headphones to my own mix.
Conversely, I've sung for engineers who just seem to nail it with a tweak here and there and I sound like a million bucks.
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 30, 2024 17:30:32 GMT -6
I have a custom built headphone amp from pro harmonic……it made a world of difference for me above something like the Apollo headphone outputs…and other interface headphone amps I have had in the past. I use extreme isolation cans……I have two sets of those…and a set of DT150s…….i have a favourite pair of the extremes I use….lord knows what I will do if they break. The Proharmonic headphone amp is based in part on some JLM audio parts…… The Hearback is no better than the Apollo. Maybe a little better…IDK. I’ve been in commercial studios where they have what looks like military grade equipment. Can’t think of the brand - but there have been multiple times I’ve had headphones on and someone says something and I think they’re like behind me…it literally sounds like they’re right beside you. I’ve never had that experience with my Hearback system. And maybe THAT’S a good way describe the issue - everything just sounds flat. We’re talking relative here - it works and has worked for me for years - I just know there’s better because I’ve heard it. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 30, 2024 17:31:34 GMT -6
Mytek Private Q…
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Post by ab101 on Aug 30, 2024 17:41:00 GMT -6
What helps me as a so so singer:
Keyboard track for pitch help and open backed headphones with one ear partially off.
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Post by notneeson on Aug 30, 2024 17:47:20 GMT -6
I have a custom built headphone amp from pro harmonic……it made a world of difference for me above something like the Apollo headphone outputs…and other interface headphone amps I have had in the past. I use extreme isolation cans……I have two sets of those…and a set of DT150s…….i have a favourite pair of the extremes I use….lord knows what I will do if they break. The Proharmonic headphone amp is based in part on some JLM audio parts…… The Hearback is no better than the Apollo. Maybe a little better…IDK. I’ve been in commercial studios where they have what looks like military grade equipment. Can’t think of the brand - but there have been multiple times I’ve had headphones on and someone says something and I think they’re like behind me…it literally sounds like they’re right beside you. I’ve never had that experience with my Hearback system. And maybe THAT’S a good way describe the issue - everything just sounds flat. We’re talking relative here - it works and has worked for me for years - I just know there’s better because I’ve heard it. I also don’t love the sound quality of the hearback. Newer one might be better, not sure? The limiter on the OG can really jack up a session if the client goes rogue. (I know, not the case here, just venting). |
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 30, 2024 17:52:46 GMT -6
Looks like they don’t make the Mytek anymore. Just thinking about it - I’m going ADAT out of the Apollo into the HB…I was reading somewhere and apparently there’s even latency with the analog connections.
At least with the analog, you’re not hearing the Hearback conversion, right? Damn I with I’d gotten at least an Apollo 8…
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 30, 2024 17:53:41 GMT -6
The Hearback is no better than the Apollo. Maybe a little better…IDK. I’ve been in commercial studios where they have what looks like military grade equipment. Can’t think of the brand - but there have been multiple times I’ve had headphones on and someone says something and I think they’re like behind me…it literally sounds like they’re right beside you. I’ve never had that experience with my Hearback system. And maybe THAT’S a good way describe the issue - everything just sounds flat. We’re talking relative here - it works and has worked for me for years - I just know there’s better because I’ve heard it. I also don’t love the sound quality of the hearback. Newer one might be better, not sure? The limiter on the OG can really jack up a session if the client goes rogue. (I know, not the case here, just venting). One of mine has a dirty pot that will literally make you deaf if you’re not careful. |
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Post by wiz on Aug 30, 2024 18:24:49 GMT -6
I also don’t love the sound quality of the hearback. Newer one might be better, not sure? The limiter on the OG can really jack up a session if the client goes rogue. (I know, not the case here, just venting). One of mine has a dirty pot that will literally make you deaf if you’re not careful. Do you require something as sophisticated as the hear back in your studio.. with just you and maybe one other? cheers Wiz |
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Post by wiz on Aug 30, 2024 18:29:50 GMT -6
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Post by ab101 on Aug 30, 2024 18:56:57 GMT -6
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 30, 2024 19:14:42 GMT -6
One of mine has a dirty pot that will literally make you deaf if you’re not careful. Do you require something as sophisticated as the hear back in your studio.. with just you and maybe one other? cheers Wiz No - I thought I would be all cool and do phone mixes…but screw that. But really all I need is the 2 mix and one or two mono channels. IDK…before I get crazy replacing the HB, I might try some new HPs. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 30, 2024 19:16:03 GMT -6
Probably…I want to try the HB analog to see what difference that makes… |
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Post by aremos on Aug 30, 2024 21:02:20 GMT -6
Doesn't matter the headphone (but not too bright) as long as one is:
1) Making sure balance of music & vox & on one side of headphone is to one's liking
2) Other headphone side off (or slightly to the side) to feel/hear one's vox (position/technique)
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,083 
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Post by ericn on Aug 30, 2024 21:29:35 GMT -6
Probably…I want to try the HB analog to see what difference that makes… Personally I would try simply setting up a headphone mix on an aux and run it through the Hilo, probably the best combo of converter headphone amp you have. Plenty of HUI apps you can run on an IPad if you want control in front of you. |
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Post by popmann on Aug 30, 2024 22:19:04 GMT -6
I think analog makes a difference for ME at least in pitch perception. It’s not just singing. Same thing with fretless bass. Unlike singing, where I can just leave the vocal out of the phones and keep an ear off…no simple solution for fretless bass unless I’m also using an amp, which isn’t typical for me these days.
DA quality? Feeding the analog headphone mixer is the only thing I use the RME antiques for…but, if it’s single rate, maybe.
The cue feed can certainly very much influence performance and that feedback loop in every way. I’ve sworn I should set up the Gefell to capture my voice but feed me an sm7 with the mid scoop in the headphones. The Gefell consistently sounds better, but there’s an anti confidence instilling presence that I think makes me sing lighter.
Do you consistently sing “better” at specific places? Or just on some
Sessions at various studios? Same mics? Sample rates?
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Post by thehightenor on Aug 31, 2024 2:15:28 GMT -6
Good point - in the studio I always use an analog monitoring mixer - latency can definitely effect pitch and timing in a negative way.
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Post by keymod on Aug 31, 2024 6:11:13 GMT -6
I have a custom built headphone amp from pro harmonic……it made a world of difference for me above something like the Apollo headphone outputs…and other interface headphone amps I have had in the past. I use extreme isolation cans……I have two sets of those…and a set of DT150s…….i have a favourite pair of the extremes I use….lord knows what I will do if they break. The Proharmonic headphone amp is based in part on some JLM audio parts…… I built a rack mount headphone amp, for two sets of phones, using the JLM kits. Sounds fantastic. |
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Post by sean on Aug 31, 2024 6:45:37 GMT -6
There are some singers I work with who just can’t sing on headphones, and in those cases I’ll usually use something like a SM7 in the control room with the speakers low / just loud enough to where the singer can still hear the music when they sing loud.
Other times open back headphones help some singers (or fiddle players). Or as others have suggested taking one ear off.
You could try something like a little Galaxy Hot Spot monitor…they make powered and passive versions…those are great to have around the studio.
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 31, 2024 7:15:56 GMT -6
I think analog makes a difference for ME at least in pitch perception. It’s not just singing. Same thing with fretless bass. Unlike singing, where I can just leave the vocal out of the phones and keep an ear off…no simple solution for fretless bass unless I’m also using an amp, which isn’t typical for me these days. DA quality? Feeding the analog headphone mixer is the only thing I use the RME antiques for…but, if it’s single rate, maybe. The cue feed can certainly very much influence performance and that feedback loop in every way. I’ve sworn I should set up the Gefell to capture my voice but feed me an sm7 with the mid scoop in the headphones. The Gefell consistently sounds better, but there’s an anti confidence instilling presence that I think makes me sing lighter. Do you consistently sing “better” at specific places? Or just on some Sessions at various studios? Same mics? Sample rates? No…not particularly. Idk…I’m just always obsessing. |
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Post by gwlee7 on Aug 31, 2024 7:19:07 GMT -6
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Post by christopher on Aug 31, 2024 9:30:05 GMT -6
Something that is easy to overlook, and honestly I overlooked it for years, is polarity when monitoring your own voice. Since our body and skull is vibrating we get that deep voice that is conducting into the ear canal. If the headphones are out of phase it’s gonna cancel a lot of that. So I always flip polarity on the headphone feed and figure out which way it sounds most full. That includes setting cans for artists, I wear their headphones and speak into their mics.
Otherwise, I’m in the same boat as far as capturing a natural take while wearing headphones. Really, I do better while strumming and singing at the same time. I still haven’t decided if recording that way is worth it. So far yes, because I simply do better takes. But I’m not happy with the tone, and overdubbing I don’t perform the same
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Post by mjheck on Aug 31, 2024 10:19:13 GMT -6
Ive had the most luck tracking with open back headphones. It even helps with stuff like electric guitar where I can start to fool myself with pitch issues using closed back.
Of course, there is more bleed, but nothing that can't be largely combatted by not monitoring the spikier parts of the mix. And really, anything that is problematic can be handled with a good transient designer, gate or RX.
As for the quality level as it pertains to tracking, I dont have a clear perspective on that. I ended up with the open back headphones that I could use during mixing. For me that was the Audeze LCD MX 4. I did better with these than on the LCD X, LCD 3, LCD 4, Grados, Sennheiser 600's, or AT 700's. Ive not tried the Audeze MMs.
It almost has the same effect as the one ear off or like a mix knob where you hear your self and the headphone signal.
This may be way off, but it did solve some problems over here. Maybe different problems though : ).
JMH
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Post by thehightenor on Aug 31, 2024 12:20:04 GMT -6
I think analog makes a difference for ME at least in pitch perception. It’s not just singing. Same thing with fretless bass. Unlike singing, where I can just leave the vocal out of the phones and keep an ear off…no simple solution for fretless bass unless I’m also using an amp, which isn’t typical for me these days. DA quality? Feeding the analog headphone mixer is the only thing I use the RME antiques for…but, if it’s single rate, maybe. The cue feed can certainly very much influence performance and that feedback loop in every way. I’ve sworn I should set up the Gefell to capture my voice but feed me an sm7 with the mid scoop in the headphones. The Gefell consistently sounds better, but there’s an anti confidence instilling presence that I think makes me sing lighter. Do you consistently sing “better” at specific places? Or just on some Sessions at various studios? Same mics? Sample rates? No…not particularly. Idk…I’m just always obsessing. John, I’ve heard a fair amount of your very appealing musical sounding singing. You’re not a pitchy singer - the opposite in fact. What is the area of improvement you’re aiming at? |
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