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Post by wiz on Aug 23, 2024 19:09:31 GMT -6
When you guys are mastering... or even on your mixes.... how much are you "mono'ing" the bottom end? (using MS EQ)
cheers
Wiz
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Post by Mister Chase on Aug 23, 2024 19:39:44 GMT -6
Some. Usually never on a mix, though. Just mastering. I would say it depends on genre etc. Some mixes it really makes things more focused.
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Post by Tbone81 on Aug 23, 2024 20:30:06 GMT -6
All the low end in my mixes is already mono (kick, bass etc) unless it’s a synth. Then it might be intentionally stereo. Either way don’t find it necessary…unless I’m miss understanding the purpose?
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Post by bgrotto on Aug 23, 2024 20:55:37 GMT -6
it sorta just happens. the only tracks with any real sub are typically kick and bass, and those are panned center. there's maybe like a smidge of big energy at 60-80hz in stereo via floor toms, and like 100-150 via rack toms. Otherwise, the low end is generally just sorta already mono'd
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Post by drumsound on Aug 23, 2024 21:12:28 GMT -6
I mix with the Bereich03 Bax EQ and it has Middle, Side or Stereo options on each band. A good amount of mixes with get the low on the mid setting, but sometimes it just sounds bigger in stereo. I don't think I've ever just used the bass band on the sides.
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Post by frans on Aug 24, 2024 6:55:08 GMT -6
On request i prepare the mixes as they would appear after mastering - some lowend-mono-ing and some peak limiting on the master, which naturally gets switched off when mixes are exported for mastering. But to kind of anticipate what will be a contributing factor and to prevent nasty surprises, i do that.
Of course a mastering house is the place where that should be done, if needed. I also tell the mastering engineer what the band has listened to and include my makeshift 2bus mixes with the 24 bit files.
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Post by doubledog on Aug 24, 2024 8:20:33 GMT -6
when I use the Amek EQ 200 plugin (Plugin Alliance) I will invoke the "mono maker" knob - and I usually have it up around 90-105Hz. Although as others said, the low end is mostly mixed mono already except for a few drums that might get panned out (but I usually find myself cutting some lows from those anyway). It just seems to tighten it up a bit more in the master.
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Post by trakworxmastering on Aug 24, 2024 10:50:06 GMT -6
When you guys are mastering... or even on your mixes.... how much are you "mono'ing" the bottom end? (using MS EQ) cheers Wiz Usually none. Unless I hear a reason for it. Same goes for any and every EQ setting. Panned toms, gtrs, keys, etc. often have LF content that matters. Using M/S EQ for this can smear stereo imaging in the lows and low mids. HPFs in general do that too. Even when mastering for vinyl, mono-ing the low end is often unnecessary and should be left to the cutting engineer to decide. |
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Post by niklas1073 on Aug 24, 2024 12:16:09 GMT -6
I dont remember that I would have used a m/s or otherwise monoed the mix. I am fairly religious though on centering the bottom end pan wise. Though… i do take most of the drum kit from overheads, which results in a fair amount of kick on the sides too. But when it comes to mastering it’s another thing, especially when it comes to vinyl masters, then mono tools comes out.
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Post by thehightenor on Aug 24, 2024 12:29:06 GMT -6
Sometimes, I like to send some signal to a stereo mod FX like a Dimension D (HPF out the low end on this send) and it makes the bass have a nice pseudo stereo spread
cool to make bass blend if the track is more slow/ambient and the bass just has too much "mono muscle" in the mix (so to speak)
Other times I like it to sound as centre mono as possible - same for the kick.
Every piece is different and needs a different treatment for the low end.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,083 
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Post by ericn on Aug 24, 2024 13:52:59 GMT -6
As much as I’m not a fan of mono bass, here is a Pre THX film mixers version of a live sound technique. In large scale touring it is common to have a second set of subs with its own mono LF mix you mix bass Keys , lower Toms & kick on an aux send basically fullrange to its own subs. At first when Dolby came out film mixers would do the same but THX put bandwidth limits on th sub out so they started folding it back into the main R/ L mix.
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Post by viciousbliss on Aug 24, 2024 13:56:51 GMT -6
I always use Basslane Pro and occasionally TDR Elliptical before it. Then Cedar Adaptive Limiter after.
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Post by paulcheeba on Aug 25, 2024 20:47:55 GMT -6
I usually mono with a plug and mess around until it sounds like a record.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Aug 26, 2024 20:35:12 GMT -6
This has always been done way less often than people seem to assume and when it was done, it was typically 50 Hz or below.
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Post by Blackdawg on Aug 26, 2024 21:17:57 GMT -6
Only time an elliptical filter gets used to do that is if something is wrong.
Only people that do it on a regular basis are cutting engineers for vinyl.
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Post by svart on Aug 27, 2024 7:00:45 GMT -6
None. The bass and kick are already mono and my guitars are typically HPF at 100hz or higher..
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Post by christopher on Aug 27, 2024 10:33:57 GMT -6
Thanks for this thread. I have only ever seen people say the rule is mono low end -always. But I swear I hear wideners on the sub pretty often, and that has had me confused. -not that I like to widening down there, but it’s good to know the mastering isn’t gonna just collapse it as a routine
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Post by Mister Chase on Aug 27, 2024 11:20:44 GMT -6
I kind of grow a little tired of the rule but I know why it exists. I'm listening to "The Poll Winners" right now and I love how Ray is over on the hard right and Barney on the left. I love albums from the dawn of stereo when they were still experimenting. Sometimes it failed miserably but sometimes it's cool or at least interesting. If you want to hear some real experimenting check out the "Bachelor Pad" music from albums like "Provocative Percussion" and "Persuasive Percussion". Absolute top killer players but some stereo antics going on.
Anyway. Yea. Lows are basically all centered these days. Kudos to those who break the rules, though.
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Post by bgrotto on Aug 27, 2024 11:28:39 GMT -6
Thanks for this thread. I have only ever seen people say the rule is mono low end -always. But I swear I hear wideners on the sub pretty often, and that has had me confused. -not that I like to widening down there, but it’s good to know the mastering isn’t gonna just collapse it as a routine I listen to reference material in A+B/A-B a fair amount (I find it really useful for troubleshooting) and basically never hear widening in the subs.p, or even stereo sub content. Are you sure you mean “subs” and not just “some LF information”? What do you consider sub? |
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Aug 27, 2024 15:21:29 GMT -6
Only cheap, mass-production "compress everything" style cutting engineers who master a disk in an hour use it constantly.
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Post by Dan on Aug 27, 2024 22:24:43 GMT -6
I don’t use it at all anymore. It’s digital, including CDs. If the consumer playback system or pa has a mono sub, it will usually have some sort of bass management built in.
When I mix, I pan the over heads to the room mics or delayed room mics and the kick and snare to the overrheads. Hits harder and more depth. I might pan the overheads so that the kick or snare is perfectly in the middle though. No phasey weird toms 20 feet apart bs from LCR mixing.
I will usually high pass effects sends though to avoid mud. If bass is tracked separately, I’ll keep it centered too.
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Post by christopher on Aug 27, 2024 22:38:54 GMT -6
Thanks for this thread. I have only ever seen people say the rule is mono low end -always. But I swear I hear wideners on the sub pretty often, and that has had me confused. -not that I like to widening down there, but it’s good to know the mastering isn’t gonna just collapse it as a routine I listen to reference material in A+B/A-B a fair amount (I find it really useful for troubleshooting) and basically never hear widening in the subs.p, or even stereo sub content. Are you sure you mean “subs” and not just “some LF information”? What do you consider sub? It’s definitely sub, but I don’t do mix minus. It’s just clearly someone using plugins thinking a little width down there will goose 3D-ness. Dance. Hiphop. Rap etc. -mostly it’s stuff for teeny boppers that I don’t realize exists and gets millions of views. Sorry I don’t have examples.. I went through top100 and hit skip every 15 seconds |
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Post by jampa on Aug 27, 2024 23:33:18 GMT -6
During mixing - I will centre bass drum and bass guitar in the middle, but no 'mono-ing the low end' eq on any bus
During mastering - I will occasionally and gently hpf the sides at a higher freq than the mid (e.g., 70Hz on sides, 35Hz mid), typically with a linear phase eq (hence the gentle slopes)
Much prefer to sort it during mixing (or earlier)
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Post by viciousbliss on Aug 28, 2024 3:38:27 GMT -6
I'm using TDR Elliptical and/or Basslane Pro after using Fusion's Space and the VSM-2 in MS. So, I'm pushing a decent amount of bass into the sides before folding any of it to mono. Not sure I'd end up doing the same thing if I wasn't already doing that. Anyone else doing any stereo imaging before mono bass?
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Post by robo on Aug 28, 2024 8:44:42 GMT -6
I usually use Basslane Pro at the end of the drum bus. It gives me a little extra headroom, and usually is harmless or helps give the kit a little more focus.
Other than drums, there is rarely any stereo sub stuff happening anyway, so it doesn’t go on the master.
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