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Post by ninworks on Aug 15, 2024 16:08:32 GMT -6
Is anyone here concerned about humidity effecting their microphones? Since I'm in Tennessee I figure that the humidity could be a factor in the long-term. Even in a climate controlled environment the humidity rarely gets below 45%. Having been born and raised in Phoenix, and living there until my late 50's, I never had to be concerned about that. I have a gallon paint can full of some plasic-ish blue desiccant beads I bough a few years ago when I was transferring some old multi-track tapes to digital. I would bake the tapes and then store them in a sealed plastic Tupperware cake container, with about an inch of the beads in the bottom, until I could get around to doing the transfers. The beads can be rejuvenated by baking them in the microwave for a few minutes at low heat. They turn pink when saturated and blue when they are dry. Since I still have the beads I bought some 3" X 4" tea bags from Amazon and I made my own desiccant pouches to put in with the microphones. The tea bags are transparent enough I can see when the color of the beads changes and need to be nuked. I don't have the mikes sitting out in the open. They are all inside some kind of container so I could control their environment very well. I was just wondering if anyone ever had any issues with their mikes due to moisture. Anyone wanna cuppa? i.postimg.cc/1t3YkNf3/Blue-Desiccant.jpgi.postimg.cc/g0YMh6yH/Blue-Beads.jpgi.postimg.cc/WzJSVmjT/Blue-Bag.jpg |
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Ari
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Post by Ari on Aug 15, 2024 16:39:32 GMT -6
the issue is the reverse if anything. you don't want to use or store a condenser mic below 40% RH. 35% bare minimum. as humidity goes down, the plastic loses the ability to discharge environmental static, which can cause the diaphragm to suck into the backplate even if the metal isn't charged. this is true of a lot of ESD sensitive devices. They hate being wet, but they also hate being dry. Neumann ran into some really interesting problems with this in the 60s. When they assembled in their relatively humid environment and shipped their mics to drier places, the capsules collapsed. They tried to fix this tons of ways, including plastic dots on the backplate to physically hold the diaphragm up in the 70s. Eventually they gave up and increased the diaphragm tension, which is why newer Neumann capsules sound different. This can still happen with boutique capsules to this day if they're assembled in high humidity places like the American south and shipped north to the east coast, Midwest US or drier parts of Europe.
the best way to make sure moisture doesn't damage a mic AND make sure humidity doesn't get too low is to store the mics in tyvek. treat them like wood.
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Post by Tbone81 on Aug 15, 2024 16:46:21 GMT -6
Yes, humidity can be a problem. I just got a mic back from being serviced…it had visible humidity damage to the diaphragm. I bought it used so not sure how it was handled before me. The damage was more likely from spit than humidity though.
Not sure how much humidity is too much. Someone smarter than me is sure to comment.
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Ari
Full Member
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Post by Ari on Aug 15, 2024 16:49:23 GMT -6
Yes, humidity can be a problem. I just got a mic back from being serviced…it had visible humidity damage to the diaphragm. I bought it used so not sure how it was handled before me. The damage was more likely from spit than humidity though. Not sure how much humidity is too much. Someone smarter than me is sure to comment. over 40 but under 60 is where i like to keep it. more important is giving the spit a way to evaporate out |
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Post by doubledog on Aug 15, 2024 23:03:36 GMT -6
I now keep my mics in plastic ziplocs with desiccant packs inside. I always have a dehumidifier running in my studio when it's not in use, but it seems that there is something about a hyper-sealed building in the middle of Texas summer that seems to invite the humidity inside.... hence the dehumidifier (the AC just can't seem to keep up on it's own). So yeah, bags, beads, all that stuff. I try to keep it around 50%. those silica gel packs are cheap on Amazon. I have a bunch (and they are rechargeable)
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Post by chessparov on Aug 16, 2024 8:50:36 GMT -6
the issue is the reverse if anything. you don't want to use or store a condenser mic below 40% RH. 35% bare minimum. as humidity goes down, the plastic loses the ability to discharge environmental static, which can cause the diaphragm to suck into the backplate even if the metal isn't charged. this is true of a lot of ESD sensitive devices. They hate being wet, but they also hate being dry. Neumann ran into some really interesting problems with this in the 60s. When they assembled in their relatively humid environment and shipped their mics to drier places, the capsules collapsed. They tried to fix this tons of ways, including plastic dots on the backplate to physically hold the diaphragm up in the 70s. Eventually they gave up and increased the diaphragm tension, which is why newer Neumann capsules sound different. This can still happen with boutique capsules to this day if they're assembled in high humidity places like the American south and shipped north to the east coast, Midwest US or drier parts of Europe.
the best way to make sure moisture doesn't damage a mic AND make sure humidity doesn't get too low is to store the mics in tyvek. treat them like wood.
I'm avoiding Dry Humour then. |
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Post by tonycamphd on Aug 16, 2024 9:57:54 GMT -6
the issue is the reverse if anything. you don't want to use or store a condenser mic below 40% RH. 35% bare minimum. as humidity goes down, the plastic loses the ability to discharge environmental static, which can cause the diaphragm to suck into the backplate even if the metal isn't charged. this is true of a lot of ESD sensitive devices. They hate being wet, but they also hate being dry. Neumann ran into some really interesting problems with this in the 60s. When they assembled in their relatively humid environment and shipped their mics to drier places, the capsules collapsed. They tried to fix this tons of ways, including plastic dots on the backplate to physically hold the diaphragm up in the 70s. Eventually they gave up and increased the diaphragm tension, which is why newer Neumann capsules sound different. This can still happen with boutique capsules to this day if they're assembled in high humidity places like the American south and shipped north to the east coast, Midwest US or drier parts of Europe.
the best way to make sure moisture doesn't damage a mic AND make sure humidity doesn't get too low is to store the mics in tyvek. treat them like wood.
I put all my mics away with a silica pack as well, i'm second guessing this after reading this^, that said i've had a pair of sm81's get completely destroyed due to decomposing foam in their cases, seemed wet when i tried to clean up the mess. I haven't had any adverse effects from storing with silica packs in baggies and without baggies for decades now so i'll stick with it |
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,083 
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Post by ericn on Aug 16, 2024 10:19:23 GMT -6
Is anyone here concerned about humidity effecting their microphones? Since I'm in Tennessee I figure that the humidity could be a factor in the long-term. Even in a climate controlled environment the humidity rarely gets below 45%. Having been born and raised in Phoenix, and living there until my late 50's, I never had to be concerned about that. I have a gallon paint can full of some plasic-ish blue desiccant beads I bough a few years ago when I was transferring some old multi-track tapes to digital. I would bake the tapes and then store them in a sealed plastic Tupperware cake container, with about an inch of the beads in the bottom, until I could get around to doing the transfers. The beads can be rejuvenated by baking them in the microwave for a few minutes at low heat. They turn pink when saturated and blue when they are dry. Since I still have the beads I bought some 3" X 4" tea bags from Amazon and I made my own desiccant pouches to put in with the microphones. The tea bags are transparent enough I can see when the color of the beads changes and need to be nuked. I don't have the mikes sitting out in the open. They are all inside some kind of container so I could control their environment very well. I was just wondering if anyone ever had any issues with their mikes due to moisture. Anyone wanna cuppa? i.postimg.cc/1t3YkNf3/Blue-Desiccant.jpgi.postimg.cc/g0YMh6yH/Blue-Beads.jpgi.postimg.cc/WzJSVmjT/Blue-Bag.jpgAll mics are usually stored in Seahorse cases each in its own ziploc baggie with color changing desiccant packs, but on the advice of the Leica Medical rep I don’t re charge them. It seams they found out the hard way that dried packs are not as effective nor is the color change as accurate. Seams they had to trash a $50,000 demo device. |
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,083
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Post by ericn on Aug 16, 2024 10:21:26 GMT -6
the issue is the reverse if anything. you don't want to use or store a condenser mic below 40% RH. 35% bare minimum. as humidity goes down, the plastic loses the ability to discharge environmental static, which can cause the diaphragm to suck into the backplate even if the metal isn't charged. this is true of a lot of ESD sensitive devices. They hate being wet, but they also hate being dry. Neumann ran into some really interesting problems with this in the 60s. When they assembled in their relatively humid environment and shipped their mics to drier places, the capsules collapsed. They tried to fix this tons of ways, including plastic dots on the backplate to physically hold the diaphragm up in the 70s. Eventually they gave up and increased the diaphragm tension, which is why newer Neumann capsules sound different. This can still happen with boutique capsules to this day if they're assembled in high humidity places like the American south and shipped north to the east coast, Midwest US or drier parts of Europe.
the best way to make sure moisture doesn't damage a mic AND make sure humidity doesn't get too low is to store the mics in tyvek. treat them like wood.
I put all my mics away with a silica pack as well, i'm second guessing this after reading this^, that said i've had a pair of sm81's get completely destroyed due to decomposing foam in their cases, seemed wet when i tried to clean up the mess. I haven't had any adverse effects from storing with silica packs in baggies and without baggies for decades now so i'll stick with it Ziplocs help with this but I was taught as a very youngin to keep 2-3 pouches under the foam insert of the case. |
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Post by andersmv on Aug 16, 2024 10:43:21 GMT -6
I've always kept my studios at around 50% humidity, if the instruments are happy the electronics should be happy. During the summer here in Arkansas, luckily my mini split system keeps it right around there. During the winter I have to run a humidifier, but it's been pretty easy to keep it running right around there with one cheaper walmart humidifier that I usually refill once in the morning.
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Ari
Full Member
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Post by Ari on Aug 16, 2024 16:52:57 GMT -6
the issue is the reverse if anything. you don't want to use or store a condenser mic below 40% RH. 35% bare minimum. as humidity goes down, the plastic loses the ability to discharge environmental static, which can cause the diaphragm to suck into the backplate even if the metal isn't charged. this is true of a lot of ESD sensitive devices. They hate being wet, but they also hate being dry. Neumann ran into some really interesting problems with this in the 60s. When they assembled in their relatively humid environment and shipped their mics to drier places, the capsules collapsed. They tried to fix this tons of ways, including plastic dots on the backplate to physically hold the diaphragm up in the 70s. Eventually they gave up and increased the diaphragm tension, which is why newer Neumann capsules sound different. This can still happen with boutique capsules to this day if they're assembled in high humidity places like the American south and shipped north to the east coast, Midwest US or drier parts of Europe.
the best way to make sure moisture doesn't damage a mic AND make sure humidity doesn't get too low is to store the mics in tyvek. treat them like wood.
I put all my mics away with a silica pack as well, i'm second guessing this after reading this^, that said i've had a pair of sm81's get completely destroyed due to decomposing foam in their cases, seemed wet when i tried to clean up the mess. I haven't had any adverse effects from storing with silica packs in baggies and without baggies for decades now so i'll stick with it you can store them dry, it's just best practice to make sure to give them time to come back up to room humidity before you use them |
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Ari
Full Member
Posts: 35
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Post by Ari on Aug 16, 2024 17:03:09 GMT -6
This is a bigger issue with spare capsules than it is with capsules in microphones. The capsules in microphones are installed, emi shielded, grounded etc inside the mic, so there's a much lower chance of them accumulating any static charge in the plastic. Here's an interesting case that happened to a client of mine with one of my capsules:
The static charge conducted thru the plastic box into the diaphragm. There was a heat wave, the temperature of the box rose, the relative humidity fell, and the plastic could not discharge under these conditions, so it sucked into the backplate. You actually see a lot of vintage Neumann capsules with this damage especially in places like storage units. If you ever see a Neumann capsule on ebay that's otherwise fine, but it's got these telltale nearly invisible circular marks in the gold layer in a specific area from the backplate, this is what happened. That's what this kind of damage looks like after the diaphragm detaches. Surprisingly, this doesn't really affect the sound of the capsule. I have several old capsules that have experienced this and they bounce back fine after being brought to normal humidity and grounded. No real change in sound.
The susceptibility of the capsule to this issue is directly related to the surface texture of the plastic. Capsules that use high clarity Toray Lumirror film like most Chinese capsules don't really have this problem, but Mylar C is much rougher. Hostaphan RN is kind of in the middle.
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