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Post by Mister Chase on Aug 4, 2024 11:30:49 GMT -6
I thought it was pretty neat how he went about recalling the parameters vs a USB type technology.
Oh, it sounds good, too.
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Post by veggieryan on Aug 4, 2024 13:26:18 GMT -6
Wow. JCF always seems to find the most unique ways to not ruin your audio.
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Post by Oneiro on Aug 4, 2024 16:25:29 GMT -6
So badass.
Josh is insane in the best way. Sounds amazing as usual. I will sing his praises from the mountain tops because he really is a tremendously creative but also pragmatic person.
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Post by drumsound on Aug 4, 2024 22:58:13 GMT -6
What an interesting idea.
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Post by Blackdawg on Aug 5, 2024 0:51:50 GMT -6
They had a fully recallable console too they teased. Looked amazing.
Smart dude. Great ways to future proof the recall!
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Post by Quint on Aug 5, 2024 7:32:04 GMT -6
Has a price ever been mentioned anywhere?
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Post by svart on Aug 5, 2024 8:06:10 GMT -6
Probably uses digital pots in place of mechanical ones.
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Post by Mister Chase on Aug 5, 2024 8:17:20 GMT -6
Probably uses digital pots in place of mechanical ones. The Bell 202 modulation recall is what really seems cool to me. No worry about usb or plugins or anything. Just record the burst on the track and play it back to the unit all analog and it will recall. It's recallable also via text file over wifi and OSC over wifi.
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Post by svart on Aug 5, 2024 8:27:54 GMT -6
Probably uses digital pots in place of mechanical ones. The Bell 202 modulation recall is what really seems cool to me. No worry about usb or plugins or anything. Just record the burst on the track and play it back to the unit all analog and it will recall. It's recallable also via text file over wifi and OSC over wifi. Yeah, it's cool, but with "no usb or plugins or anything" also means that if there is a hardware failure in a module with fully digital control, then it's completely useless. To recall using 202 modulation (AFSK modulation) then it must have an A/D built in as well. I guess it could be included solely for this purpose, but I wonder if they use digital processing for the audio instead of actual analog signal paths?
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Post by Mister Chase on Aug 5, 2024 10:09:02 GMT -6
The Bell 202 modulation recall is what really seems cool to me. No worry about usb or plugins or anything. Just record the burst on the track and play it back to the unit all analog and it will recall. It's recallable also via text file over wifi and OSC over wifi. Yeah, it's cool, but with "no usb or plugins or anything" also means that if there is a hardware failure in a module with fully digital control, then it's completely useless. To recall using 202 modulation (AFSK modulation) then it must have an A/D built in as well. I guess it could be included solely for this purpose, but I wonder if they use digital processing for the audio instead of actual analog signal paths? Yea, I have the same concern about my Wes audio stuff. Guess that's a hurdle of externally recallable gear. What's the answer? Also, by hardware failure, do you mean digital control circuits inside? I mean, if my 550 type EQ has a hardware failure, isn't it also useless until it's fixed? The fix would seem the difficult part. I guess the fail safe option would be an analog control and digital control in the same unit for redundancy.
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Post by poppaflavor on Aug 5, 2024 13:28:50 GMT -6
To recall using 202 modulation (AFSK modulation) then it must have an A/D built in as well. I guess it could be included solely for this purpose, but I wonder if they use digital processing for the audio instead of actual analog signal paths? Oofda. I hadn't realized that to decode that modem burst that it would need to covert ad/da. Great question. Is the entire audio path subject to that conversion or is there a bifurcation and a bit of the signal is continually picked off in order to do the do the settings change in real time? I'd like to know this as well.I'd like to know this as well.
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Post by Quint on Aug 5, 2024 13:53:38 GMT -6
To recall using 202 modulation (AFSK modulation) then it must have an A/D built in as well. I guess it could be included solely for this purpose, but I wonder if they use digital processing for the audio instead of actual analog signal paths? Oofda. I hadn't realized that to decode that modem burst that it would need to covert ad/da. Great question. Is the entire audio path subject to that conversion or is there a bifurcation and a bit of the signal is continually picked off in order to do the do the settings change in real time? I'd like to know this as well.I'd like to know this as well. Maybe the burst is really high frequency, and the signal gets split in the analog domain? If so, perhaps an analog filter could be placed on the analog side, to filter out anything not in audio range, and then the other side of the split gets sent to an AD for recall purposes? Either way, I kind of doubt that the entirety of the signal path is going thru an AD. If so, why even bother with all of the digitally controlled analog in the first place?
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Post by kbsmoove on Aug 5, 2024 15:09:30 GMT -6
Yea, I have the same concern about my Wes audio stuff. Guess that's a hurdle of externally recallable gear. What's the answer? Also, by hardware failure, do you mean digital control circuits inside? I mean, if my 550 type EQ has a hardware failure, isn't it also useless until it's fixed? The fix would seem the difficult part. I guess the fail safe option would be an analog control and digital control in the same unit for redundancy. i used a 550a with no low shelf option for about a year before i replaced the switch. no big deal. if that single encoder or the screen die, that JCF unit is toast until it can be fixed. i think digital / plugin control on a fully sweepable EQ like the wes, or their 16 channel vca box for automating a small console is great. i'll take that long term risk for the usefulness / repeatability / utility. but a 550? takes about 10 seconds to recall.
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Post by Mister Chase on Aug 5, 2024 15:34:28 GMT -6
Yea, I have the same concern about my Wes audio stuff. Guess that's a hurdle of externally recallable gear. What's the answer? Also, by hardware failure, do you mean digital control circuits inside? I mean, if my 550 type EQ has a hardware failure, isn't it also useless until it's fixed? The fix would seem the difficult part. I guess the fail safe option would be an analog control and digital control in the same unit for redundancy. i used a 550a with no low shelf option for about a year before i replaced the switch. no big deal. if that single encoder or the screen die, that JCF unit is toast until it can be fixed. i think digital / plugin control on a fully sweepable EQ like the wes, or their 16 channel vca box for automating a small console is great. i'll take that long term risk for the usefulness / repeatability / utility. but a 550? takes about 10 seconds to recall. Makes sense. And yea, my bt50 is the easiest thing to recall that I own I think. Something like an SSL fully parametric with 4 bands and filters recallable would be great for recall.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,083
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Post by ericn on Aug 5, 2024 16:14:13 GMT -6
Yea, I have the same concern about my Wes audio stuff. Guess that's a hurdle of externally recallable gear. What's the answer? Also, by hardware failure, do you mean digital control circuits inside? I mean, if my 550 type EQ has a hardware failure, isn't it also useless until it's fixed? The fix would seem the difficult part. I guess the fail safe option would be an analog control and digital control in the same unit for redundancy. i used a 550a with no low shelf option for about a year before i replaced the switch. no big deal. if that single encoder or the screen die, that JCF unit is toast until it can be fixed. i think digital / plugin control on a fully sweepable EQ like the wes, or their 16 channel vca box for automating a small console is great. i'll take that long term risk for the usefulness / repeatability / utility. but a 550? takes about 10 seconds to recall. The dirty little secret about automated recall, the easiest gear to recall without automation are the easiest to build an automated recall system for, switches are easier than pots and the less controls / possible positions the easier. One other secret that those of us who have lived with VCA based automation is , it’s not like a pot, there are steps, tiny steps but you start noticing it pretty quickly. I’ll say it again let’s develop a modern universal protocol for automation/ recall so even if it becomes an orphan tech, all I need is one ancient computer and not 20! Oh do a search API had one of the earliest EQ’s with recall the 913 I think?
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Post by drumsound on Aug 5, 2024 17:31:36 GMT -6
Yea, I have the same concern about my Wes audio stuff. Guess that's a hurdle of externally recallable gear. What's the answer? Also, by hardware failure, do you mean digital control circuits inside? I mean, if my 550 type EQ has a hardware failure, isn't it also useless until it's fixed? The fix would seem the difficult part. I guess the fail safe option would be an analog control and digital control in the same unit for redundancy. i used a 550a with no low shelf option for about a year before i replaced the switch. no big deal. if that single encoder or the screen die, that JCF unit is toast until it can be fixed. i think digital / plugin control on a fully sweepable EQ like the wes, or their 16 channel vca box for automating a small console is great. i'll take that long term risk for the usefulness / repeatability / utility. but a 550? takes about 10 seconds to recall. i used a 550a with no low shelf option for about a year before i replaced the switch. no big deal. if that single encoder or the screen die, that JCF unit is toast until it can be fixed. i think digital / plugin control on a fully sweepable EQ like the wes, or their 16 channel vca box for automating a small console is great. i'll take that long term risk for the usefulness / repeatability / utility. but a 550? takes about 10 seconds to recall. Makes sense. And yea, my bt50 is the easiest thing to recall that I own I think. Something like an SSL fully parametric with 4 bands and filters recallable would be great for recall. I was thinking about this. The 550 is the easiest EQ on the planet to recall. My dear friend Mark Rubel had a DeMedio console with API components. He would record a track in the DAW saying the settings of each channel "Ch 1 Bass Drum Low Shelf plus 4 DB at 50hz" etc.
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Post by Blackdawg on Aug 5, 2024 23:49:55 GMT -6
The Bell 202 modulation recall is what really seems cool to me. No worry about usb or plugins or anything. Just record the burst on the track and play it back to the unit all analog and it will recall. It's recallable also via text file over wifi and OSC over wifi. Yeah, it's cool, but with "no usb or plugins or anything" also means that if there is a hardware failure in a module with fully digital control, then it's completely useless. To recall using 202 modulation (AFSK modulation) then it must have an A/D built in as well. I guess it could be included solely for this purpose, but I wonder if they use digital processing for the audio instead of actual analog signal paths? Looks analog to me, has transformers in the shots. but probably has an AD somehow in it. It has to to do that. Or it has a hybid setup where its got a transformer output on a DA? Who knows. Someone buy one. The only real downside to this I think is that you can't automate it digitally like you can other digitally controlled devices. Still cool though.
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Post by svart on Aug 6, 2024 7:57:31 GMT -6
Oofda. I hadn't realized that to decode that modem burst that it would need to covert ad/da. Great question. Is the entire audio path subject to that conversion or is there a bifurcation and a bit of the signal is continually picked off in order to do the do the settings change in real time? I'd like to know this as well.I'd like to know this as well. Maybe the burst is really high frequency, and the signal gets split in the analog domain? If so, perhaps an analog filter could be placed on the analog side, to filter out anything not in audio range, and then the other side of the split gets sent to an AD for recall purposes? Either way, I kind of doubt that the entirety of the signal path is going thru an AD. If so, why even bother with all of the digitally controlled analog in the first place? If it's truly Bell 202 modulation, then it's in the 1K-3KHz range. It seems it has to be in the audio band anyway, so you can play back the audio into the device to "program" it.
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Post by svart on Aug 6, 2024 8:01:35 GMT -6
Yeah, it's cool, but with "no usb or plugins or anything" also means that if there is a hardware failure in a module with fully digital control, then it's completely useless. To recall using 202 modulation (AFSK modulation) then it must have an A/D built in as well. I guess it could be included solely for this purpose, but I wonder if they use digital processing for the audio instead of actual analog signal paths? Yea, I have the same concern about my Wes audio stuff. Guess that's a hurdle of externally recallable gear. What's the answer? Also, by hardware failure, do you mean digital control circuits inside? I mean, if my 550 type EQ has a hardware failure, isn't it also useless until it's fixed? The fix would seem the difficult part. I guess the fail safe option would be an analog control and digital control in the same unit for redundancy. I find that digital hardware tends to fail more often than analog. I think analog parts typically have a much wider range of operating voltages so they tend to survive oddball situations. Digital stuff tends to have very low tolerances for voltage variations, so something like a power surge might not damage an opamp rated at 36V but running at 24V but a MCU running at 3.3V might die quickly when it sees 4V, etc. Just my opinion.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,083
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Post by ericn on Aug 6, 2024 9:34:41 GMT -6
Yea, I have the same concern about my Wes audio stuff. Guess that's a hurdle of externally recallable gear. What's the answer? Also, by hardware failure, do you mean digital control circuits inside? I mean, if my 550 type EQ has a hardware failure, isn't it also useless until it's fixed? The fix would seem the difficult part. I guess the fail safe option would be an analog control and digital control in the same unit for redundancy. I find that digital hardware tends to fail more often than analog. I think analog parts typically have a much wider range of operating voltages so they tend to survive oddball situations. Digital stuff tends to have very low tolerances for voltage variations, so something like a power surge might not damage an opamp rated at 36V but running at 24V but a MCU running at 3.3V might die quickly when it sees 4V, etc. Just my opinion. Yes digital and RF are both extremely voltage sensitive, sort of makes you wonder about digital wireless systems and cheap PSU’s.
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Post by nomatic on Aug 6, 2024 14:22:51 GMT -6
I have a bunch of stuff from Josh and it is stellar! I have no doubt this is great and dammit if I might have to order some....
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Post by Quint on Aug 6, 2024 15:21:51 GMT -6
Maybe the burst is really high frequency, and the signal gets split in the analog domain? If so, perhaps an analog filter could be placed on the analog side, to filter out anything not in audio range, and then the other side of the split gets sent to an AD for recall purposes? Either way, I kind of doubt that the entirety of the signal path is going thru an AD. If so, why even bother with all of the digitally controlled analog in the first place? If it's truly Bell 202 modulation, then it's in the 1K-3KHz range. It seems it has to be in the audio band anyway, so you can play back the audio into the device to "program" it. Yeah, that's a good point about the audio band. I was overlooking that the DA from the computer would have to be operating in the 20 to 20 audio band, unless you were operating at a higher sample rate or something. But I doubt JCF would want to make an eq that only works for people using higher sample rates.
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