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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 31, 2024 17:34:22 GMT -6
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Post by Dan on Jul 31, 2024 18:09:27 GMT -6
The Behringer is clicky.
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Post by smashlord on Jul 31, 2024 18:32:26 GMT -6
Prefer the Behringer in this application. It's tighter and snappier, though I suppose that would make sense with the slower attack. Sounds like it would work better in a mix.
The AS78 kills a little too much of the transient making the snare and kick, to a lesser degree, sound a bit boxy. I personally am not a huge fan of 1178s/1176s directly on the buss, though.... attack is too fast, even at the slowest setting. Parallel can be great, though.
I don't think one sounds bigger than the other. I noticed the different attack characteristics more than anything.
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Post by geoff738 on Jul 31, 2024 18:38:21 GMT -6
I hate to say it, but on a quick listen on an ipad, I think I preferred the Behringer as well. Whether that would hold on a better system or whether I might just prefer a 609 style, I dunno.
Repeat after me. I do not need another compressor. I do not need …
Cheers,
Geoff
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Post by wiz on Jul 31, 2024 18:56:25 GMT -6
The envelope of those two files sounds pretty different... the AS sounds flatter and the behringer sounds more jumpy.....
Don't know which is closer to the orig mix though....out of the two..I prefer jumpy ... but as I say... don't have the original to refer to
cheers
Wiz
Ps didn't know you had a Stam child....
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 31, 2024 19:28:20 GMT -6
Man…I thought the opposite. Preferred the AudioScape in every instance. I also have no idea what the attack time is on the 78. I had it at noon because the 369 was on slow. But I think the 369 slow attack is still 6ms. So it was probably set faster than the 78.
If you listen on monitors, you’ll hear how much bigger the kick is with the AS. Threshold was at like 12 - and that’s waaay more than I usually do…and even all the way, I couldn’t really get things to bloom - like bringing the room up - the 78 can destroy. For that reason, I’ll probably use it on the 2 Bus just taking off a tiny bit.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 31, 2024 19:49:13 GMT -6
Just thinking about it - that snap on the snare - is I would assume because of the faster attack…and I really don’t like that on drums. It makes it NOT sound like a snare to me. More like an electrical pop or something.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 31, 2024 20:39:30 GMT -6
Was just looking… stam’s unit is 2ms and 4 ms on fast slow attacks. I think I’m realizing why I never really got along with these in the past…no slower attack options. Lots of times I’ll use a slower attack and fastest release…then I bring the attack up to control how much of the transient I want up front…and then use the release to control the length of the whoosh/bloom. This one doesn’t really do that…but it’s the design. It’s why I don’t think of the 33609 on the drum bus. More on the 2 bus just tickling and adding tone. I’ve used the SA-609 MkI and the big thing I noticed was just how big the bottom was with that thing. Not the same experience with this one…but it does sound pretty good. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 31, 2024 20:48:34 GMT -6
Interesting. Just listened to the files on my iPad…and the 369 does sound better through these speakers. Definitely tighter. In the room, I much preferred the 78. But they’re two totally different designs…so…
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Post by theshea on Aug 1, 2024 0:03:52 GMT -6
Was just looking… stam’s unit is 2ms and 4 ms on fast slow attacks. I think I’m realizing why I never really got along with these in the past…no slower attack options. Lots of times I’ll use a slower attack and fastest release…then I bring the attack up to control how much of the transient I want up front…and then use the release to control the length of the whoosh/bloom. This one doesn’t really do that…but it’s the design. It’s why I don’t think of the 33609 on the drum bus. More on the 2 bus just tickling and adding tone. I’ve used the SA-609 MkI and the big thing I noticed was just how big the bottom was with that thing. Not the same experience with this one…but it does sound pretty good. i much prefer the AS on your soundsamples. it sounds bigger and alive. behringer sounds flat, tighter yeah but with less charachter. and thats what i would want from a neve 33609. about the attack time: thats the only thing because i am still unsecure if i should buy the stam 33609: only one fixed compressor attack time. the heritage successor has A LOT more options and also sidechain. but its not exactly a 33609 as it is class A and not class A/B as the stam. not shure how much that would make a difference though. |
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Post by copperx on Aug 1, 2024 0:10:48 GMT -6
Was just looking… stam’s unit is 2ms and 4 ms on fast slow attacks. I think I’m realizing why I never really got along with these in the past…no slower attack options. Lots of times I’ll use a slower attack and fastest release…then I bring the attack up to control how much of the transient I want up front…and then use the release to control the length of the whoosh/bloom. This one doesn’t really do that…but it’s the design. It’s why I don’t think of the 33609 on the drum bus. More on the 2 bus just tickling and adding tone. I’ve used the SA-609 MkI and the big thing I noticed was just how big the bottom was with that thing. Not the same experience with this one…but it does sound pretty good. i much prefer the AS on your soundsamples. it sounds bigger and alive. behringer sounds flat, tighter yeah but with less charachter. and thats what i would want from a neve 33609. about the attack time: thats the only thing because i am still unsecure if i should buy the stam 33609: only one fixed compressor attack time. the heritage successor has A LOT more options and also sidechain. but its not exactly a 33609 as it is class A and not class A/B as the stam. not shure how much that would make a difference though. Have you considered a pair of Alctron CP540s? The Alctron has eight attack settings, from 0.5ms to 50ms. |
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Post by theshea on Aug 1, 2024 1:04:48 GMT -6
i much prefer the AS on your soundsamples. it sounds bigger and alive. behringer sounds flat, tighter yeah but with less charachter. and thats what i would want from a neve 33609. about the attack time: thats the only thing because i am still unsecure if i should buy the stam 33609: only one fixed compressor attack time. the heritage successor has A LOT more options and also sidechain. but its not exactly a 33609 as it is class A and not class A/B as the stam. not shure how much that would make a difference though. Have you considered a pair of Alctron CP540s? The Alctron has eight attack settings, from 0.5ms to 50ms. no. i am prepared to spend more for quality. |
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Post by smashlord on Aug 1, 2024 8:34:03 GMT -6
I also have no idea what the attack time is on the 78. I had it at noon because the 369 was on slow. Slowest attack time on an 1178 should be about 800us, so sub 1ms. If you are at noon, it's probably somewhere around .5ms. Fast! If it AS78 has a HPF that is high enough to let the kick through (I think it does?), I could see it being good directly on the drum buss with the goal of tucking in the occasional loud snare transient, but otherwise not really moving. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 1, 2024 10:46:51 GMT -6
I also have no idea what the attack time is on the 78. I had it at noon because the 369 was on slow. Slowest attack time on an 1178 should be about 800us, so sub 1ms. If you are at noon, it's probably somewhere around .5ms. Fast! If it AS78 has a HPF that is high enough to let the kick through (I think it does?), I could see it being good directly on the drum buss with the goal of tucking in the occasional loud snare transient, but otherwise not really moving. Annnnnnddddd that might explain why the 78 had suuuch a bigger bottom: I had the HPF on 120 where I basically keep it. So, forgive me everyone. If anyone’s interested, I can take another pass with the HPF off. |
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Post by bgrotto on Aug 1, 2024 10:55:50 GMT -6
The behringer sounds flabby to me.
But I don’t love the release on the 78. It’s doing something weird to the snare reverb.
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 1, 2024 11:02:49 GMT -6
The behringer sounds flabby to me. But I don’t love the release on the 78. It’s doing something weird to the snare reverb. Could be the verb…Snare verb is my kryptonite. Now I’m wondering if this was the session that I tried CLA Epic on the snare…and I think it might have had some pre-delay somewhere and an actual delay…not sure. Any snare verb suggestions are welcomed! It just seems that I’m searching for a verb on snare that works on almost every freaking song. It must be that there’s a different place for that snare whooosh in every mix? IDK |
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Post by ragan on Aug 1, 2024 11:10:39 GMT -6
I too suck at snare reverb. Actually, I just suck at reverb.
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Post by kcatthedog on Aug 1, 2024 11:14:03 GMT -6
I’ve pretty well caved on verb, and just use very little.  |
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 1, 2024 11:55:41 GMT -6
I too suck at snare reverb. Actually, I just suck at reverb. You know, you're right, that's true across the board for me too. Like - I think I've kinda got it figured out - and then I have a mix on the same voice (myself a lot of the time) and I just CAN NOT get the verb to a place I'm super satisfied. Then sometimes, you keep looking and "boom" all of a sudden something works...freaky. |
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Post by sean on Aug 1, 2024 12:02:15 GMT -6
Was just looking… stam’s unit is 2ms and 4 ms on fast slow attacks. I think I’m realizing why I never really got along with these in the past…no slower attack options. Lots of times I’ll use a slower attack and fastest release…then I bring the attack up to control how much of the transient I want up front…and then use the release to control the length of the whoosh/bloom. This one doesn’t really do that…but it’s the design. It’s why I don’t think of the 33609 on the drum bus. More on the 2 bus just tickling and adding tone. I’ve used the SA-609 MkI and the big thing I noticed was just how big the bottom was with that thing. Not the same experience with this one…but it does sound pretty good. i much prefer the AS on your soundsamples. it sounds bigger and alive. behringer sounds flat, tighter yeah but with less charachter. and thats what i would want from a neve 33609. about the attack time: thats the only thing because i am still unsecure if i should buy the stam 33609: only one fixed compressor attack time. the heritage successor has A LOT more options and also sidechain. but its not exactly a 33609 as it is class A and not class A/B as the stam. not shure how much that would make a difference though. Check out the AML 52F50 |
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Post by ninworks on Aug 1, 2024 12:24:54 GMT -6
I too suck at snare reverb. Actually, I just suck at reverb. You know, you're right, that's true across the board for me too. Like - I think I've kinda got it figured out - and then I have a mix on the same voice (myself a lot of the time) and I just CAN NOT get the verb to a place I'm super satisfied. Then sometimes, you keep looking and "boom" all of a sudden something works...freaky. That's why I like hardware verbs whenever possible. I like having a knob to turn to make things fit into a particular space. Once I figure out what verb type and sound I want I like to grab the knob that adjusts either the decay time and/or pre-delay and keep moving it in real time until I hear it fit into the spot where it needs to be. That's hard to do with a lot of plugins. Doing that with a mouse is difficult. Calculating delay times doesn't always work like you would think it should. You can tweak parameters with up and down arrows if the plugin supports that but practically all of the ones I have don't. |
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Post by smashlord on Aug 1, 2024 12:40:09 GMT -6
Could be the verb…Snare verb is my kryptonite. Now I’m wondering if this was the session that I tried CLA Epic on the snare…and I think it might have had some pre-delay somewhere and an actual delay…not sure. Any snare verb suggestions are welcomed! It just seems that I’m searching for a verb on snare that works on almost every freaking song. It must be that there’s a different place for that snare whooosh in every mix? IDK I find having multiple verbs helps. A shorter, darker one and a longer one, usually EQed to not have a ton of top or bottom. A lot of the time, though, I find if I am struggling to get a verb to sit right in a mix, its often a problem with the dry signal.... not EQed right for the mix or dynamics not quite right, yet, etc..... |
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Post by dok on Aug 1, 2024 12:41:49 GMT -6
I'm just an idiot who makes records in his bedroom, but I've always found more success with delay on snare instead of reverb. YMMV, of course.
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Post by Dan on Aug 1, 2024 14:07:51 GMT -6
I don't like either of the clips but the loop is very fatiguing with the snare overshoots and the clicky kick. The 1178 takes care of business better but I would use an even faster attack time and a longer release. If I got sent this loop, it's definitely getting hammered by something super aggressive like Vulf.
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Post by jacobamerritt on Aug 1, 2024 16:15:50 GMT -6
I too suck at snare reverb. Actually, I just suck at reverb. You know, you're right, that's true across the board for me too. Like - I think I've kinda got it figured out - and then I have a mix on the same voice (myself a lot of the time) and I just CAN NOT get the verb to a place I'm super satisfied. Then sometimes, you keep looking and "boom" all of a sudden something works...freaky. I never put verb on snare, unless its for a specific creative genre choice... A touch on a mono room mic or maybe OHs seems to give some depth if I need it. Also dialing in the HPF/LPF helps On more specific topic- it isn't nothing that people seem to like the Behringer to some degree. Especially considering it's based on your one single example. Seems like you could do a lot worse for the same or more money. I dunno. |
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