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Post by smashlord on Jul 19, 2024 8:42:36 GMT -6
Out of those two, SSL hands down. 33609 attack is too fast for a lot of things. SSL will never not work on something... there may be something that is cooler for a particular mix, but its never "wrong" like some of those cooler boxes can be.
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Post by jaba on Jul 19, 2024 8:51:41 GMT -6
Oh the darn internet. Who said the meter isn’t reliable! I’ve been using mine for 15 years !!!! And yes, you can buy a replacement meter, Justin, the designer, sent me a link to the correct meter years ago, and it’s still available. Rumours hey …. crazy how they spread. That wasn't a rumor, in a Purple Forum thread the designer said that -- that it was unreliable and impossible to get. The rumours I've heard about the RMS are (and I think I read them in this forum!): that the compressor tends to make chorus sections tiny (more compressed than verse sections), and that the controls are very touchy (reportedly that a slight movement makes a big change). I was decided to buy it before I read all of that. From the samples I've heard, the thing puts a beautiful sheen on top of everything. If you could confirm/deny the "overshoots in choruses" rumor it would be great. Now I feel like I need one. Have had my 755 for a good 15 years and still love it. Meter works, choruses are big, nothing finicky at all. Sounds fabulous with a pair of LH95s. |
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Post by drumsound on Jul 19, 2024 11:17:16 GMT -6
I haven't used a 33609, but I have a Rupert Neve 5424 that I've used on my mix bus for nearly two years. I really like the tone and the way things translate. AND the price came down recently. I'm kind of surprised there isn't more chatter about them. It has cool modern features, a variable side chain filter, and mix knob (which works amazingly well for cutting vocals) and the diode bridge coolness. The mix knob and the timing work together in an interesting way that once you get used to really opens up the possibilities. They recently renamed it the Shelford Compressor, so if I ever go to sell mine I'll be starting plenty of internet posts implying that the original 5424 has some magic dust, but the name it the only thing that's actually been changed. Mixing what genres? How does it affect the mids (if at all)? Thanks Various forms of guitar type music. Lately some heavier things. But I've used it on a couple rap things, and singer songwriter things as well. I feel like pushing the mids a bit into it works quite well. As in EQing guitar for some mid push doesn't make it go nuts, but the tone of it and those guitars works together. Here's one of the most recent releases where I used the 5425. If i recall correctly though I put it in line, I ended up NOT using my Biereich03 EQ that is patched in after the comp. Bleed You by The OccasionI haven't used a 33609, but I have a Rupert Neve 5424 that I've used on my mix bus for nearly two years. I really like the tone and the way things translate. AND the price came down recently. I'm kind of surprised there isn't more chatter about them. It has cool modern features, a variable side chain filter, and mix knob (which works amazingly well for cutting vocals) and the diode bridge coolness. The mix knob and the timing work together in an interesting way that once you get used to really opens up the possibilities. They recently renamed it the Shelford Compressor, so if I ever go to sell mine I'll be starting plenty of internet posts implying that the original 5424 has some magic dust, but the name it the only thing that's actually been changed. I thought the RND Diode comps were cool but the two I had weren’t calibrated and it drove me crazy. And I’m not paying the ignorant prices they’re asking for any of their Master Bus stuff. You can’t tell me those cost $2k to build. That’s just an arbitrary upcharge. I haven't tried 2 of the 500 series together, so I can't comment there. The rack unit doesn't seem to get me problems with the two sides sounding different. I also like tracking vocals with it. Yeah, RND does lean high on the price scale... But I have no doubt this thing will be with me for many many years. |
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Post by jaba on Jul 19, 2024 11:45:35 GMT -6
Honestly John, use the SSL bus in auto release. If your SSL bus comp clone doesn’t have a working auto-release that’s like 10 seconds or so in total, sell it and buy a different one or just use the Glue and set ovesampling to 16x. Auto makes the controls idiosyncratic but it is how you have the slower secondary attack and release to make it not sound like a typically crappy cheap VCA compressor (at least the Channel compressor is RMS sensing like a dbx 160 despite its often too fast or too slow attacks) and control the material. You then need to get the signal where the compressor starts speeding up on transients like an LA whatever’s sweet spot. Attack then sets more where on the gain reduction meter the attack speeds up more than the attack rate. If you’re only doing around 1 vu or so off, you can’t use 30 ms on auto because then something like a drum hit will initiate a long slow fade almost. You need to use one of the fastest attacks but it won’t attack that fast initially. A medium amount off, one of the inbetween ones like 1 or 3 ms, hovering around 4 or so and not really digging in like 10 ms, and really digging in towards 8 vu off approaching 12 vu of gain reduction you want to use 30 ms. If you want to compress more or less transparently, you’ll have to change the attack to change the sweet spot. This will make the compressor react quickly to transients, without smashing them down or causing really stupid overshoots, while slowly hugging the material. It’s really important to get the amount of gain reduction right to make sure the compressor release fast enough on transients and doesn’t hold the high end down. You’ll also want to use a high pass filter to stop it from pumping on bass Ratio doesn’t change the sweet spot, only the knee and threshold in addition to the ratio. But since it doesn’t change the sweet spot of gain reduction for each attack, it more changes the knee through diodes. Then you need to ride / automate your faders to keep it in the sweetspot to not over compress or under compress. This will glue your track together. Great description of how to set a VCA compressor on the 2-buss (and other busses too really). I spent a few good years parking the attack on the slowest two attacks, and fastest releases, so I wouldn't "kill the transients" or whatever. Once I started playing with faster attacks and longer releases I started to understand compressing the 2-buss. I'm sure many do great work with slow attack + auto release but playing around with those can really hug the mix nicely and it's fun to mix into. And yeah, threshold setting is HUGE and can change drastically when changing other settings. |
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Post by Mister Chase on Jul 19, 2024 11:55:21 GMT -6
SSL. I use AS Bus comp. UAD 33609 is great on some tracks. I did a down tempo bluegrass/country thing and the 33609 plugin helped it sound huge.
I also really like the Lindell SBC on some medium tempo rock stuff. 85% mix typically and tapping the meter. Nice sounding plugin.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 19, 2024 12:17:47 GMT -6
Mixing what genres? How does it affect the mids (if at all)? Thanks Various forms of guitar type music. Lately some heavier things. But I've used it on a couple rap things, and singer songwriter things as well. I feel like pushing the mids a bit into it works quite well. As in EQing guitar for some mid push doesn't make it go nuts, but the tone of it and those guitars works together. Here's one of the most recent releases where I used the 5425. If i recall correctly though I put it in line, I ended up NOT using my Biereich03 EQ that is patched in after the comp. Bleed You by The OccasionI thought the RND Diode comps were cool but the two I had weren’t calibrated and it drove me crazy. And I’m not paying the ignorant prices they’re asking for any of their Master Bus stuff. You can’t tell me those cost $2k to build. That’s just an arbitrary upcharge. I haven't tried 2 of the 500 series together, so I can't comment there. The rack unit doesn't seem to get me problems with the two sides sounding different. I also like tracking vocals with it. Yeah, RND does lean high on the price scale... But I have no doubt this thing will be with me for many many years. It wasn't that they didn't sound the same, it was just level tolerances. |
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Post by russellcreekps on Jul 19, 2024 19:37:17 GMT -6
Which would you prefer on the 2 bus? SSL G Bus or 33609? I really love the UAD 33609 on my master buss, but I’m always just tickling the needle on it. It’s always added a nice color and weight to things to my ear, things always sound massively boring as soon as I take it off. That’s how I’ve always used it, I’ve done that forever because I saw a few big names engineers doing it early on in my recording “career”. I don’t really like it that much as a strong compressor. I’m always mixing into my API console with the API compressor doing the actual compression. Again, I like the 33609 but I don’t know if it would be fair to say I’m really “compressing” with it. I haven’t found anything else that does its thing though. I need to try this. Have you tried the UAD API 560, all settings at 0? That’s been my ‘line amp’ (for lack of a better term) on the 2bus. |
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Post by russellcreekps on Jul 19, 2024 19:45:59 GMT -6
I need to read more about the AudioScape d comp. On 2bus I tend to use mine just for saturation, it makes the image wider. Sometimes I engage comp, but usually not (use a different one)…It does make things a little brighter. |
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Post by andersmv on Jul 19, 2024 20:29:47 GMT -6
I really love the UAD 33609 on my master buss, but I’m always just tickling the needle on it. It’s always added a nice color and weight to things to my ear, things always sound massively boring as soon as I take it off. That’s how I’ve always used it, I’ve done that forever because I saw a few big names engineers doing it early on in my recording “career”. I don’t really like it that much as a strong compressor. I’m always mixing into my API console with the API compressor doing the actual compression. Again, I like the 33609 but I don’t know if it would be fair to say I’m really “compressing” with it. I haven’t found anything else that does its thing though. I need to try this. Have you tried the UAD API 560, all settings at 0? That’s been my ‘line amp’ (for lack of a better term) on the 2bus. I’ve got an API Box Console, so I’m usually not adding much API flavor during tracking with the UAD stuff. I’ll just use the preamps and the 527. |
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Post by russellcreekps on Jul 19, 2024 21:02:18 GMT -6
Ah yes, forgot about the box. I use the UAD version of the 560 only on 2bus during mix. MDN suggested it in one of his vids and it hasn’t left mine since.
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Post by Mister Chase on Jul 19, 2024 23:03:20 GMT -6
Ah yes, forgot about the box. I use the UAD version of the 560 only on 2bus during mix. MDN suggested it in one of his vids and it hasn’t left mine since. That plug has a tone just with all the sliders centered. I havent tried it across the whole bus but I do use it on guitars without using the EQ and it does something. |
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Post by thehightenor on Jul 20, 2024 2:23:56 GMT -6
That wasn't a rumor, in a Purple Forum thread the designer said that -- that it was unreliable and impossible to get. The rumours I've heard about the RMS are (and I think I read them in this forum!): that the compressor tends to make chorus sections tiny (more compressed than verse sections), and that the controls are very touchy (reportedly that a slight movement makes a big change). I was decided to buy it before I read all of that. From the samples I've heard, the thing puts a beautiful sheen on top of everything. If you could confirm/deny the "overshoots in choruses" rumor it would be great. Now I feel like I need one. Have had my 755 for a good 15 years and still love it. Meter works, choruses are big, nothing finicky at all. Sounds fabulous with a pair of LH95s. Yes, same here. Three stand out points for the RMS 755 1. Makes everything sound BIG. 2. Precise controls 3. Extremely reliable This is the difference of owning something as opposed to just reading about it on-line. Happens to me sometimes. I’ve read a few negative comments about the WAZA Tube Amp Expander and this week I bought one. It’s absolutely fantastic and not one of the negative comments I’ve read about it are true! I sometimes wonder if competitors go on line and spread negative rumours? Not saying that about the RMS 755 but just generally - I do wonder. |
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Post by EmRR on Jul 20, 2024 9:13:01 GMT -6
^ and overly common to find complaints from people who don’t know what they’re doing in the first place
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Post by Dan on Jul 20, 2024 11:03:35 GMT -6
You can also use two simpler compressors and try to exploit masking with the Mike Caffrey method of parallel compression so that they don’t sound like crap and can create cool effects. More program dependent compressors, you don’t have to do this if you can use them and can get a ton of gain reduction transparently. www.fullcompass.com/gearcast/common/images/1368-1445-file.pdfBasically one for the quiet part, send with dry to compressor for loud parts, adjust the blend of quiet and dry to that they mask the deficiencies of each other on quiet and loud and you get pleasant natural sound on both. |
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Post by Dan on Jul 20, 2024 11:05:03 GMT -6
Various forms of guitar type music. Lately some heavier things. But I've used it on a couple rap things, and singer songwriter things as well. I feel like pushing the mids a bit into it works quite well. As in EQing guitar for some mid push doesn't make it go nuts, but the tone of it and those guitars works together. Here's one of the most recent releases where I used the 5425. If i recall correctly though I put it in line, I ended up NOT using my Biereich03 EQ that is patched in after the comp. Bleed You by The OccasionI haven't tried 2 of the 500 series together, so I can't comment there. The rack unit doesn't seem to get me problems with the two sides sounding different. I also like tracking vocals with it. Yeah, RND does lean high on the price scale... But I have no doubt this thing will be with me for many many years. It wasn't that they didn't sound the same, it was just level tolerances. you need to use something very consistent like a vca or digital compressor pretty much. |
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Post by Dan on Jul 20, 2024 11:15:42 GMT -6
^ and overly common to find complaints from people who don’t know what they’re doing in the first place Yep and they know jack and shit and try to use compressors like four figure distortion pedals when the great majority of them don’t have high distortion. The main use of compression for these guys is to ruin the sound and you can hear productions marred by poor compression at every level of the industry. |
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Post by Dan on Jul 20, 2024 11:19:20 GMT -6
Many posters on forums or buyers have no idea how to use the type of hardware in general or how the controls work. Zero idea. See the praise of the SSL clones with defective auto release or the praise of plugins with defective envelope followers. Something expanded from the SSL bus like the Rolls (never used or even seen it) or the Smart C2, might as well be rocket science because hell they don’t know how the original features worked. They would neither be able to hear what the very clever SSL bus compressor does nor make it do that.
Setting another compressor to behave vaguely like it is something they will never accomplish or they will pick some compressor that doesn’t even have the same control set or behaviors, attempt to match one drum loop to the other, and then say they have copied it and you don’t need it. See the ReaComp apologists and Pulsar The Abyss where the plugins are defended by people who don’t know how to use them. The Abyss company owner, I doubt he’s the developer, threw in GML and Daking presets into a compressor that didn’t even have functional auto release with no fucking clue that one is RMS and log detecting but linear release, the other is a voltage linear, exponential fet. What in the world? Then of course had shills attack people in his thread on the purple site.
Or any of the arguments that x clone or y plugin of the SSL bus comp or anything is too grabby versus their preferred signal processor. Let’s presume if a plugin, that that plugin can detect the signal peaks and is modeled off the behavior of the hardware unlike the waves ssl g bus comp and ssl native bus comp respectively. Well then their statement isn’t really factual in anyway because how transients are modulated by the unit also depends on the signal level and threshold control which they don’t realize. So one song where the mix is hotter than the other will have different signal levels hitting the thing and threshold settings from the other.
Hitting the ssl bus comp and other compressors with a quieter signal and turning down the threshold changes the behavior. Turning down threshold boosts the level into the sidechain, so you can heavily saturate the side chain by overdriving power rails so it won’t effect the tops of the transientsn or really the transients at all. Less so on more overbuilt models. Similar effects to hitting some compressors hot without threshold where the audio path is higher headroom than the control path or there are interesting behaviors in the control path.
There are compressors that try to give some control over the behavior and other attack peculiarities like the alpha-sigma knob (switching in the old free one) in Molot GE, the attack modification knob on EL Arousor (not that it can detect the true signal peaks at all) or the EL Pump (first time such a control in hardware), the range controls and gain reduction limits on some units like The Glue and Kotelnikov that can be used for interesting effects, the transient override on the crazy Unisum, etc. one that doesn’t have it but has a side chain input, you could saturate or clip the side chain before sending it to the compressor but that idea never crossed their minds.
All of the classic compressors are very idiosyncratic, program dependent processors built to solve problems and provide almost inaudible control of the signal. Some of them have creative fx too beyond pumping and breathing.
Unfortunately the desire to expand and race the bottom has gear manufacturers and plugin developers selling signal processors to people who don’t know how to use any of them. For example the 1176 abuse and misuse is insane. You can hear it or defective emulations of it (there’s no reason to ever touch one of those) ruin vocal takes even on big artist’s records. Spiff the plugin and other frequent dependent transient shapers like Envolution, and multiband ones like St4b can combat the crazy non-linear pumping from people messing up recordings more than some real world problems.
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Post by thehightenor on Jul 20, 2024 13:16:30 GMT -6
^ and overly common to find complaints from people who don’t know what they’re doing in the first place People never fail to amaze me. One of the biggest complaints I see in reviews on Amazon of various products is .... "It didn't fit - it was much bigger than I thought it would be"Of course, the dimensions are clearly visible in the ad. I try to be charitable and imagine it's just straight forward laziness rather than sheer stupidity. |
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Post by robschnapf on Jul 20, 2024 13:32:10 GMT -6
So I have two stereo busses run parallel series as in mix goes to both but I then jam one into the other.
ST Buss1 Jensen/990 Sunset Sound buss
ST Buss2 Marinair/283 Neve.
Stereo 1 has a Smart on it set to 4:1 in auto never taking more then 4 off.
That drives into Stereo 2 which also gets the two mix plus the stereo 1.
Add ST1 to taste and control the amount of saturation into the Neve.
Magic happens.
At the end of all that is the overstayer MAS to finish it off.
Nothing feels too smashed but it sure does feel glued together.
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Post by vintagelove on Jul 20, 2024 14:17:40 GMT -6
Between the 2, I would go with the SSL Bus+. It's versatile and sounds good.
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Post by EmRR on Jul 20, 2024 14:54:11 GMT -6
^ and overly common to find complaints from people who don’t know what they’re doing in the first place People never fail to amaze me. One of the biggest complaints I see in reviews on Amazon of various products is .... "It didn't fit - it was much bigger than I thought it would be"Of course, the dimensions are clearly visible in the ad. I try to be charitable and imagine it's just straight forward laziness rather than sheer stupidity. If you spend a lot of time writing sales copy you realize quickly that READING WITH COMPREHENSION is a rare thing. |
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Post by stam on Jul 20, 2024 15:12:27 GMT -6
SSL/API..., I'm hoping it's going to be this......, It's a Serpent audio SBA 4000(SSL) compressor diy rig that i put an API cavendish mod into(giant expensive pita), I put in 6 Scott Liebers red dot 2520's and 2 of J Stiegers 2503 OP trannys in it, I made my own pcb setup for the quad vca section, i've only used it with the original ic style opamps so far to verify operation and it sounds like a very good specimen SSL vca compressor as expected, due to space limits I had to build the PSU externally into an unused alctron tube mic supply box, I've been low on time so I still haven't changed it over to the API style output section, but i linked a video to Jimmy Paiges son(😂) who did the basic cavendish mod on a gSSL, it's the video that inspired me to do this because it sounds so damn great(even on youtube) and as J Steiger says "more is more" when it comes to the api components for that sound, i'm hoping this will become a permanent fixture on the stereo out View AttachmentView AttachmentVery interesting Tony What are the extra 2 2520's for? 2 on the input and 2 on the output but you mention 6? I use a similar setup on the API mod on the 4K. Sounds great. |
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Post by tonycamphd on Jul 20, 2024 15:24:30 GMT -6
Very interesting Tony What are the extra 2 2520's for? 2 on the input and 2 on the output but you mention 6? I use a similar setup on the API mod on the 4K. Sounds great. Hi, yeah they are driving the quad vca's, they take the place of the 5534's(if i remember correctly), here's the schematic, i don't have a schemo for the quad vca board but deduced(correctly or not) that the additional opamps were provided to optimally drive 4 vca's instead of 2.....?🤷🏻♂️ SB4000schematic copy.pdf (777.92 KB) |
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Post by robschnapf on Jul 20, 2024 17:08:03 GMT -6
Smart C1
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Post by paulcheeba on Jul 22, 2024 1:56:41 GMT -6
After trying all the usual suspects I ended up with a POM Fairchild, a Vertigo compressor as I love the timing and a Rockruepel limiter. I also use Stam Stereo Pultec’s, a Knif Soma or a Curve bender an Avalon 2055 and an Over stayer MAS. This is a mastering/mix chain that leaves me with little to do in the digital realm.
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