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Post by thirdeye on Jul 16, 2024 16:37:36 GMT -6
As my studio and outboard collection have grown, I have reached a point where my TRS patchbays often look like a birds nest of cabling, I’m wondering if it might make sense to switch to TT. The cost seems like it might be prohibitive. I currently have 4 TRS bays which do work just fine. I know I should be able to get that all in 2 TT bays, but even if I don’t get totally lazy and just buy db25 I then have to rely on my mediocre (at best) soldering skills to make the patch cables. I’m guessing I would be looking at $2kish, at least, no? And how much harder is it soldering your own TT bays compared to say making mic or TRS cables? One other suggestion I'd make if you decide to go to TT, over spec and get more than you need. If you think you can cram it into 2 bays, then buy 3. It will be helpful for future expansion, and you can add some cool things to the TT bay like phase reverse, mults, pads, etc.. |
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Post by christophert on Jul 17, 2024 3:20:30 GMT -6
I use 96way TT patchbays that are all DSub I/O.
With plenty of flex to pull them out and repatch the DSubs when needed.
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Post by eyebytwomuchgeer on Jul 17, 2024 20:48:06 GMT -6
I use two Redco TT patchbays. I started with one and expanded to two. You run out of space much quicker than you think.
I use JDSPromotions TT cables, and they sell through eBay. They seem to be the cheapest option with the most variety of lengths and colors. They've been working quite well for me for the last few years. They also sell other random TT-type cables, like TT-to-TRS or TT-to-XLR, and those come in handy on occasion.
Regardless of how neat I'd like the cabling to be behind the patchbays, its a nightmare back there. Ideally, I'd build custom length DB25-to-whatever cables to keep it tidy, but even then, I'd imagine there is only so much one can do.
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Post by Blackdawg on Jul 19, 2024 10:16:03 GMT -6
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Post by drbill on Jul 19, 2024 10:24:03 GMT -6
SWEET!! Are those bi-directional? So can you put one/two on the input of your mic pre's, run a pair of Cat6 cables into the record room, put on another pair of those adapters, and hook up mics? Do they carry phantom OK. Thx! |
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Jul 19, 2024 11:01:04 GMT -6
I understand that cat 4 is cheap, but for most using D-Sub bays I don’t see how these equals a meter foot print. Most using Dsub bays are running 8 ch snakes, with these you are going to double the amount of cables. The other thing to remember is with these is your putting more weight on a crappy board mounted dsub. Any patchbay can benefit from some basic labling, and some good old fashioned strain relief bars. |
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Post by kbsmoove on Jul 19, 2024 11:55:04 GMT -6
i just got done soldering a few thousand solder points for all new TT bays for my new console/rack setup. I came from using ADC bays from the 70s, built into my old console. 1970s TTbays still working perfectly - i'd take them over 1/4" bays any day for longevity and for saving rack space.
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Post by Ward on Jul 19, 2024 12:18:38 GMT -6
SWEET!! Are those bi-directional? So can you put one/two on the input of your mic pre's, run a pair of Cat6 cables into the record room, put on another pair of those adapters, and hook up mics? Do they carry phantom OK. Thx! Basic Features Converts AES59 (DSUB) to AES72 Type 4E (QTP + Cat5e/Cat6) Converts 8 balanced channels of audio between a DB25-M connector to 2x RJ45 connectors Allows up to 4 channels of Balanced audio to be carried along a single Cat-5e/6 cable, Allows up to 4 pairs of AES/EBU audio to be carried along a single Cat-5e/6 cable, This adapter connects the Shield connections when used with Shielded Cat5e/6. Use of shielded cable allows use of Phantom Power with Microphones.Reduces installation costs by eliminating the need for traditional multipair snake cabling. Double-PCB construction - Shields and prevents accidental contact with exposed signal contacts. Configuration Descriptions DB25-M connector (Pins) - Used to connect to most racked equipment and devices. 4-40 mounting screw attached to DSub connector. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jul 19, 2024 14:00:09 GMT -6
SWEET!! Are those bi-directional? So can you put one/two on the input of your mic pre's, run a pair of Cat6 cables into the record room, put on another pair of those adapters, and hook up mics? Do they carry phantom OK. Thx! Basic Features Converts AES59 (DSUB) to AES72 Type 4E (QTP + Cat5e/Cat6) Converts 8 balanced channels of audio between a DB25-M connector to 2x RJ45 connectors Allows up to 4 channels of Balanced audio to be carried along a single Cat-5e/6 cable, Allows up to 4 pairs of AES/EBU audio to be carried along a single Cat-5e/6 cable, This adapter connects the Shield connections when used with Shielded Cat5e/6. Use of shielded cable allows use of Phantom Power with Microphones.Reduces installation costs by eliminating the need for traditional multipair snake cabling. Double-PCB construction - Shields and prevents accidental contact with exposed signal contacts. Configuration Descriptions DB25-M connector (Pins) - Used to connect to most racked equipment and devices. 4-40 mounting screw attached to DSub connector. Of course my heavy duty cat-5 cables cost as much as snake cable! |
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Post by Blackdawg on Jul 20, 2024 0:58:40 GMT -6
SWEET!! Are those bi-directional? So can you put one/two on the input of your mic pre's, run a pair of Cat6 cables into the record room, put on another pair of those adapters, and hook up mics? Do they carry phantom OK. Thx! Yes they can with shielded cable. And yeah you can even use a box like this on the other end to have your XLR Break out: www.redco.com/Redco-EA-4F-RJ45-4-Female-XLR-Send-Box.htmlVery handy. I understand that cat 4 is cheap, but for most using D-Sub bays I don’t see how these equals a meter foot print. Most using Dsub bays are running 8 ch snakes, with these you are going to double the amount of cables. The other thing to remember is with these is your putting more weight on a crappy board mounted dsub. Any patchbay can benefit from some basic labling, and some good old fashioned strain relief bars. Nah Cat cable is so much smaller it's much much easier to manage if you get decent cable that's flexible. And I have these, well the originals from W&B, for AES on HD I/O and Grace Micpres and if anything its way less stain. They weigh nothing and CAT cable weighs nothing. |
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Post by EmRR on Jul 20, 2024 12:57:33 GMT -6
Still on cheap TRS bays here, I regard them as an expendable, like headphone ear pads and (cough) Ultimate MC-125 mic stand hubs.
I've had some that started going funky from poor contact as soon as 3 years, others maybe 6 years. I've replaced all 3 I have en masse each time. The funky contact is evidenced as actual drifting levels...I have a tone loopback template set up for quick occasional eval.
The advantage? Changing gear on the bay and in the racks frequently, though corresponding disadvantage is every wire is a home run from piece to bay rear.
Some day I may have a system locked down long enough to set up TT....
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Post by drbill on Jul 20, 2024 13:27:14 GMT -6
Some day I may have a system locked down long enough to set up TT.... No need to be locked down. There's a simple and SUPER flexible design Doug that is easily reconfigurable. TT bays with F Elco 90's on the back. All equipment racks with 1 in and 1 out (F/F) Elco on rear of rack. M to M interconnects of different lengths to hook racks to bays. Then, from the 2 F elco's on the racks, fan out to appropriate XLR's inside the racks. If you need TRS, a quick, short XLR to TRS pigtail solves the problem. Different grounding issues for problematic gear? Deal with it at the pigtail - otherwise everything is balanced from bay to gear and back. Since going to a design like this, my patch bays (over 1000 points at one stage of studio life) went from being a massive (although necessary) PITA to a joy. Move a rack? No problem - choose 2 M to M elco cables of appropriate length, and have 24 in and 24 out connections pulled and reconnected in 5 minutes. Wheel in your tracking rack? No problem. Hooked up in 5 minutes. Change out gear - no worries, super quick. Only TWO audio cables exiting each rack. (Plus an AC cable that for me goes to a 1RU AC Distro unit.
I came to this epiphany when I was literally up to my knees in cable, reconfiguring the location of a few racks, and tripped and fell, and got so mad that I WAS going to do things right or die trying.
If I want, I can easily pull racks, put them in a truck and re-setup at a remote location in a couple of hours - instead of the weeks it took previously with soldered bays, and literally hundreds of cables going every which way.
For me, it's a dream that only took 35+ years to figure out. LOL |
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Post by Bat Lanyard on Jul 20, 2024 16:39:38 GMT -6
Mr. Patchbay was a great resource getting started into TT's. Bought my first one from him and soldered all the connections. Pretty rewarding, really.
Used Redco and Switchcraft as well and with the current build, I have four Bittree PS96DB25i's. Love them. Very high quality.
Had three Flock 64-channel units before I moved last year. That experiment is over. They were sold. Super cool idea but all those ICs and losing I/O to connect them stomped the convenience of the idea. I feel they added level as well but didn't have the time to figure that out. Had a high noise floor with that setup and with the Bittree's it was night and day once I got up and running again. YMMV.
I found soldering DB25 connectors to be much easier and faster than making cables. I was surprised. And if you roll your own you can split gear out to wherever you want and make cables to reach. Went through over 600 ft combined of Canare 4 and 8-channel snake cable with my setup. Totally worth the effort and much less expensive than buying the equivalent cables.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jul 20, 2024 23:13:51 GMT -6
Mr. Patchbay was a great resource getting started into TT's. Bought my first one from him and soldered all the connections. Pretty rewarding, really. Used Redco and Switchcraft as well and with the current build, I have four Bittree PS96DB25i's. Love them. Very high quality. Had three Flock 64-channel units before I moved last year. That experiment is over. They were sold. Super cool idea but all those ICs and losing I/O to connect them stomped the convenience of the idea. I feel they added level as well but didn't have the time to figure that out. Had a high noise floor with that setup and with the Bittree's it was night and day once I got up and running again. YMMV. I found soldering DB25 connectors to be much easier and faster than making cables. I was surprised. And if you roll your own you can split gear out to wherever you want and make cables to reach. Went through over 600 ft combined of Canare 4 and 8-channel snake cable with my setup. Totally worth the effort and much less expensive than buying the equivalent cables. What only 600ft of Canare? Wimp😁 |
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Post by prene1 on Jul 21, 2024 1:21:49 GMT -6
Whhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaatttttttt!!!!!!!!!!! If this was around a few years ago. I would have saved so much $$$$$$$. May still get this and try it out. |
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