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Post by gravesnumber9 on Jul 13, 2024 11:48:01 GMT -6
As I continue to kick the tires on what I would replace my orbit with if I sold it, this came up. Malcom Toft Equate, $2k for 8 channels of Toft EQ. Interesting.
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Post by kcatthedog on Jul 13, 2024 12:05:34 GMT -6
Aren’t there often qc issues with Toft stuff ?
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Post by jacobamerritt on Jul 13, 2024 13:41:42 GMT -6
Aren’t there often qc issues with Toft stuff ? I think that older ATB console was notorious, but haven't heard anything beyond that thing.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Jul 13, 2024 19:47:59 GMT -6
Aren’t there often qc issues with Toft stuff ? I've heard that but yeah... maybe outdated? Kinda surprised there's nothing out there about this thing.
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Post by kcatthedog on Jul 14, 2024 4:59:11 GMT -6
Agreed , I haven’t read so much recently. EricN might know better, but I thought there were ownership changes, new owners reduced build quality from toft’s original design, product suffered ?
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Post by Quint on Jul 14, 2024 6:16:32 GMT -6
If you look at that thing, I gotta wonder if that's not literally a 500 series chassis that they've repurposed for the Equate, by just putting a universal face plate over the whole thing. I would bet money that the "daughter cards" behind the face plate are essentially 500 series modules, just without their own individual face plate.
Which kind of makes me wonder, why not just sell the EQs individually, as standalone 500 series modules? But if they want to sell people eight of them at a time, and/or don't want to individually sell them for $200 to $250 a piece, I guess that's why they're doing this.
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Post by chipbuttie on Jul 14, 2024 8:11:00 GMT -6
I’ve been looking at this too. He also has an 8 channel console that matches it. I think the ATB consoles were branded as Toft Audio under PMI, these new products are branded as Malcolm Toft so it might be a different company or Malcolm on his own. The ATB consoles didn’t have the best build / QC . I only encountered one once but I wasn’t very impressed.
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Jul 14, 2024 8:29:23 GMT -6
Malcom has found someone else to once again by into the hype. Malcom’s designs have always had their weaknesses and those who have bought out his misadventures have learned the hard way that Malcom isn’t the next Rupert Neve. In the history of Trident the “ Father of British EQ “ was the lead draftsman, not a circuit designer, he was the guy who cleaned up the ideas of others scribbled on what ever and drew nice neat plans so everyone could read them. These all have the look of cheap made in China Behringer/ Midas wouldn’t touch them, I expect in 3 years Malcom will have moved on & the customers will be left with scratchy pots and other issues. When it Comes to Toft history always repeats.
I always find that the most interesting thing about the whole legend of Trident is how the numbered series consoles were elevated by the hype machine to be better than the other midline British Boards, they all pretty much share the same design, it’s funny because those who know the A range are the ones who will admit a 70 isn’t that different from a Soundcraft or Soundtracs.
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Post by chipbuttie on Jul 14, 2024 13:07:11 GMT -6
Has anyone tried the Trident 500 series stuff? Who makes that?
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Post by Dan on Jul 14, 2024 15:38:06 GMT -6
Has anyone tried the Trident 500 series stuff? Who makes that? Why not just buy a Daking? Made in the USA. Cleanish but colored, pushed, and sits at the same time. Some of the smoothest compressors around too. Great used deals on the FET comps. They make an 1176 just sound stupid.
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Post by chipbuttie on Jul 14, 2024 17:26:16 GMT -6
Has anyone tried the Trident 500 series stuff? Who makes that? Why not just buy a Daking? Made in the USA. Cleanish but colored, pushed, and sits at the same time. Some of the smoothest compressors around too. Great used deals on the FET comps. They make an 1176 just sound stupid. Love Daking stuff, was talking about the trident EQ’s though. They’re a pretty good price for a 500 series EQ to use while tracking and I would imagine fairly similar to the Toft eq that’s being discussed
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Post by Ward on Jul 14, 2024 17:33:52 GMT -6
Aren’t there often qc issues with Toft stuff ? Often? NO Frequently? NO Usually? NO Somewhat kind of and more than many high end or boutique units? Perhaps. I have the same Toft dual channel strip for 20 years now, put out smoke once, simple repairs and fine since.
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Post by Quint on Jul 14, 2024 19:09:59 GMT -6
Malcom has found someone else to once again by into the hype. Malcom’s designs have always had their weaknesses and those who have bought out his misadventures have learned the hard way that Malcom isn’t the next Rupert Neve. In the history of Trident the “ Father of British EQ “ was the lead draftsman, not a circuit designer, he was the guy who cleaned up the ideas of others scribbled on what ever and drew nice neat plans so everyone could read them. These all have the look of cheap made in China Behringer/ Midas wouldn’t touch them, I expect in 3 years Malcom will have moved on & the customers will be left with scratchy pots and other issues. When it Comes to Toft history always repeats. I always find that the most interesting thing about the whole legend of Trident is how the numbered series consoles were elevated by the hype machine to be better than the other midline British Boards, they all pretty much share the same design, it’s funny because those who know the A range are the ones who will admit a 70 isn’t that different from a Soundcraft or Soundtracs. Assuming that they're all pretty much the same design, then the biggest difference between stuff like the Soundcrafts, etc. and the 70/80 Series Tridents would probably be the transformer inputs on the Tridents versus the more typical electronically balanced inputs on the Soundcrafts, etc., no? Perhaps that's where the distinction arose that the 70/80 Series Tridents were better sounding? That said, I did always kind of fancy the idea of a 70/80 Series board. Perhaps I was buying into the hype. I don't know. The new Trident boards are trying to capitalize on that history, and I did sort of cast a glance their way for a second, but the flirtation didn't last long. One of these days, I just need to finish getting my MCI 416 fully up and running.
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Jul 14, 2024 19:22:30 GMT -6
Malcom has found someone else to once again by into the hype. Malcom’s designs have always had their weaknesses and those who have bought out his misadventures have learned the hard way that Malcom isn’t the next Rupert Neve. In the history of Trident the “ Father of British EQ “ was the lead draftsman, not a circuit designer, he was the guy who cleaned up the ideas of others scribbled on what ever and drew nice neat plans so everyone could read them. These all have the look of cheap made in China Behringer/ Midas wouldn’t touch them, I expect in 3 years Malcom will have moved on & the customers will be left with scratchy pots and other issues. When it Comes to Toft history always repeats. I always find that the most interesting thing about the whole legend of Trident is how the numbered series consoles were elevated by the hype machine to be better than the other midline British Boards, they all pretty much share the same design, it’s funny because those who know the A range are the ones who will admit a 70 isn’t that different from a Soundcraft or Soundtracs. Assuming that they're all pretty much the same design, then the biggest difference between stuff like the Soundcrafts, etc. and the 70/80 Series Tridents would probably be the transformer inputs on the Tridents versus the more typical electronically balanced inputs on the Soundcrafts, etc., no? Perhaps that's where the distinction arose that the 70/80 Series Tridents were better sounding? That said, I did always kind of fancy the idea of a 70/80 Series board. Perhaps I was buying into the hype. I don't know. The new Trident boards are trying to capitalize on that history, and I did sort of cast a glance their way for a second, but the flirtation didn't last long. One of these days, I just need to finish getting my MCI 416 fully up and running. Well all the others had a transformer option 😁
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Post by Quint on Jul 14, 2024 19:35:54 GMT -6
Assuming that they're all pretty much the same design, then the biggest difference between stuff like the Soundcrafts, etc. and the 70/80 Series Tridents would probably be the transformer inputs on the Tridents versus the more typical electronically balanced inputs on the Soundcrafts, etc., no? Perhaps that's where the distinction arose that the 70/80 Series Tridents were better sounding? That said, I did always kind of fancy the idea of a 70/80 Series board. Perhaps I was buying into the hype. I don't know. The new Trident boards are trying to capitalize on that history, and I did sort of cast a glance their way for a second, but the flirtation didn't last long. One of these days, I just need to finish getting my MCI 416 fully up and running. Well all the others had a transformer option 😁 Did they? If they did, then most people must have not gone for the tranny options on those other boards, because you don't see a whole lot of older Soundcrafts, and boards like them from that time period, with transformers.
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Jul 14, 2024 20:51:36 GMT -6
Well all the others had a transformer option 😁 Did they? If they did, then most people must have not gone for the tranny options on those other boards, because you don't see a whole lot Soundcrafts, and boards like them, with transformers. If you take a look at either the sales brochures, manuals, price lists or schematics for just about any of the opamp based Brit consoles from the 70’s through the late 90’s you will see the option of both input & output transformers. Now most are either the tiny Neutrik or Beyerdynamics, nothing fancy but they can be fit at anytime. Even the later Allen Heath 2K and 3K had the option but on these the output transformers were mounted outboard. Many of these consoles were used in both Broadcast trucks and installations where transformers were pretty standard. This pretty much ended with digital consoles. Local stations found boards like the Yamaha’s with recall to be a god send, presets for all the talent, being able to mute all the mics and playback devices made most station A1’s have wet dreams.
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Post by Quint on Jul 14, 2024 21:24:00 GMT -6
Did they? If they did, then most people must have not gone for the tranny options on those other boards, because you don't see a whole lot Soundcrafts, and boards like them, with transformers. If you take a look at either the sales brochures, manuals, price lists or schematics for just about any of the opamp based Brit consoles from the 70’s through the late 90’s you will see the option of both input & output transformers. Now most are either the tiny Neutrik or Beyerdynamics, nothing fancy but they can be fit at anytime. Even the later Allen Heath 2K and 3K had the option but on these the output transformers were mounted outboard. Many of these consoles were used in both Broadcast trucks and installations where transformers were pretty standard. This pretty much ended with digital consoles. Local stations found boards like the Yamaha’s with recall to be a god send, presets for all the talent, being able to mute all the mics and playback devices made most station A1’s have wet dreams. I guess most people didn't opt for the trannys then, at least based on how seldom I see those sort of boards from that time period with trannys. The ones on the used market seems to nearly all be electronically balanced..
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Post by kcatthedog on Jul 15, 2024 4:55:09 GMT -6
Aren’t there often qc issues with Toft stuff ? Often? NO Frequently? NO Usually? NO Somewhat kind of and more than many high end or boutique units? Perhaps. I have the same Toft dual channel strip for 20 years now, put out smoke once, simple repairs and fine since. [b No disrespect, but a few year’s ago, I saw lots of online comments about the Toft console build quality and poor response to warranty responses. Whether that was indicative of an overall product qc issue, I didn’t know ?
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Jul 15, 2024 10:44:37 GMT -6
Often? NO Frequently? NO Usually? NO Somewhat kind of and more than many high end or boutique units? Perhaps. I have the same Toft dual channel strip for 20 years now, put out smoke once, simple repairs and fine since. [b No disrespect, but a few year’s ago, I saw lots of online comments about the Toft console build quality and poor response to warranty responses. Whether that was indicative of an overall product qc issue, I didn’t know ? Pretty sure they sold a lot of those though. I see them around here anyway more than a lot of other similar priced units. So maybe there was high enough volume to have a significant amount of disgruntled and vocal customers. Just speculating.
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Post by Ward on Jul 15, 2024 12:03:26 GMT -6
[b No disrespect, but a few year’s ago, I saw lots of online comments about the Toft console build quality and poor response to warranty responses. Whether that was indicative of an overall product qc issue, I didn’t know ? Pretty sure they sold a lot of those though. I see them around here anyway more than a lot of other similar priced units. So maybe there was high enough volume to have a significant amount of disgruntled and vocal customers. Just speculating. In my estimation, I think both your intimations are close to pure. The Toft wiring seems inspired by some of the old 1176 wiring that would often waft the smell of burning candles through the control air. IYKYK And yes, Malcom Toft and Company sold a lot of units for a while.
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Post by kcatthedog on Jul 15, 2024 12:13:49 GMT -6
I was just surprised cus before reading the complaints, I had a good impression of Toft gear, so I just had a question mark after reading those.
Wondered, just a bad run of parts , some bad units: what?
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