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Post by bossanova on Jul 6, 2024 21:21:54 GMT -6
I’ve never done any scientific tests or anything remotely close, so all of this is just my subjective opinion based off of what I hear… Pretty much all of the vocal shields I’ve worked with have made vocals sound worse. Ya, you might get rid of a little bit of those room reflections, but the trade off is weird/phasey artifacts and at the worst end of the spectrum, a nasty and boxy tone. I found this out early on when I was doing vocals in tiny bedrooms, I ended up just dumping the vocal shield completely becasue it sounded better without it when it came time to process the signal. I literally got better results using those cheap auralex foam panels to cover a section in a corner of a room and singing into the corner. If you absolutely HAVE to have a small vocal shield and are against just slightly treating your room or using a larger panel, the smaller GIK VISO Booth is the only thing I’ve found that sounds good to me. I don’t know if it’s the absorptive material, the fact it’s a little bigger, the angle of the sides (more than likely a combination of all of those), but GIK figured out how to do one of those well. That would be my one and only recommendation. If you want to actually have something that does the job right, and you’re a little flexible on suggestions, move up to one of the GIK PIB Portable Isolation Booths. They fold down and can be stored out of the way pretty easily if need be. I have two of them and cram them around a corner in my live room all the time, it makes as good a sounding vocal booth as any of the expensive rooms I’ve worked in. Don’t bother with any of the other vocal shield things out there. It’s kind of the equivalent to taking a headache medication that just makes you shit your pants all the time. Did you really solve your problem? How do you set the PIBs up in the corner? Is it back to the wall and the isolation behind the mic to keep the sound from going out into the room? |
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Post by rowmat on Jul 6, 2024 21:34:58 GMT -6
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Jul 7, 2024 4:22:02 GMT -6
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Post by andersmv on Jul 7, 2024 7:02:57 GMT -6
I’ve never done any scientific tests or anything remotely close, so all of this is just my subjective opinion based off of what I hear… Pretty much all of the vocal shields I’ve worked with have made vocals sound worse. Ya, you might get rid of a little bit of those room reflections, but the trade off is weird/phasey artifacts and at the worst end of the spectrum, a nasty and boxy tone. I found this out early on when I was doing vocals in tiny bedrooms, I ended up just dumping the vocal shield completely becasue it sounded better without it when it came time to process the signal. I literally got better results using those cheap auralex foam panels to cover a section in a corner of a room and singing into the corner. If you absolutely HAVE to have a small vocal shield and are against just slightly treating your room or using a larger panel, the smaller GIK VISO Booth is the only thing I’ve found that sounds good to me. I don’t know if it’s the absorptive material, the fact it’s a little bigger, the angle of the sides (more than likely a combination of all of those), but GIK figured out how to do one of those well. That would be my one and only recommendation. If you want to actually have something that does the job right, and you’re a little flexible on suggestions, move up to one of the GIK PIB Portable Isolation Booths. They fold down and can be stored out of the way pretty easily if need be. I have two of them and cram them around a corner in my live room all the time, it makes as good a sounding vocal booth as any of the expensive rooms I’ve worked in. Don’t bother with any of the other vocal shield things out there. It’s kind of the equivalent to taking a headache medication that just makes you shit your pants all the time. Did you really solve your problem? How do you set the PIBs up in the corner? Is it back to the wall and the isolation behind the mic to keep the sound from going out into the room? (Not sure if the picture is going to show up...). I've got one corner in my live room where there's already two panels on the wall near a corner. I set the two PIB's up to form a square booth with the two walls and have a nice sized/make shift ISO booth. If you need to just use two of them in a "normal" environment that's not a studio or has treatment, just set one up behind the mic and one behind the singer. I've taken those to a couple of remote places to record and that sounded the best to me.  |
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Post by frans on Jul 7, 2024 7:03:05 GMT -6
I wouldn't like something that close to a mic. Either it is useless, because the dimensions of it just work on frequencies with a wavelength about the size of the thing and up ... or it gives off little reflections (combfilter effing) or it messes with the polar pattern sound. I once tried it around a hihat to have less of it in the back of the snare mic but same issues.
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,083
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Post by ericn on Jul 7, 2024 14:04:52 GMT -6
I wouldn't like something that close to a mic. Either it is useless, because the dimensions of it just work on frequencies with a wavelength about the size of the thing and up ... or it gives off little reflections (combfilter effing) or it messes with the polar pattern sound. I once tried it around a hihat to have less of it in the back of the snare mic but same issues. But but but… they look kool😎 |
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Post by chessparov on Jul 7, 2024 15:52:01 GMT -6
Nothing like a "combover"  |
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Post by wiz on Jul 7, 2024 16:41:37 GMT -6
I record my vocals at 90 degrees to my desk in fig 8 with the side pointing at the aircon about 4 metres away. I have a cloud above my head (cause I am essentially in my mix position). I have found the C-Vox plug in from UA extremely good.. have you tried that Johnkenn ? I essentially have two spots to record my vocals in my room...the other is the mirror end of the mix position, again under a cloud. That's where I recorded clients....but I find it way easier being near the screen and keyboard to my right when doing vox. That way I can easily do things on the DAW should I need to. Works really well for me. cheers Wiz |
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Post by chessparov on Jul 7, 2024 17:10:03 GMT -6
Hmm... Now Waves Clarity Vx looks interesting. IIRC the UA Plug isn't native-yet.  |
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Post by christopher on Jul 8, 2024 12:57:21 GMT -6
PSA- Regarding resonant room nodes:
I had been chasing weird nodes and artifacts for a while. First I thought it was my room. This went on for years, because I thought it was my room, and not much can do about it. So I figured I was mixing and letting nodes survive, or creating them and not hearing them.
Then I moved, new place.. same nodes. Got ARC ran some scans; still weird nodes.
So then I went hunting my chain, my DAW, my render settings, etc.. another rabbit hole.
In the end the nodes were
GOOGLE DRIVE!
Yes.. I was listening in the car to Google drive.. for years.
Just yesterday I accidentally listened to Drive again, same nodes again.. I stopped the car, downloaded to my files- play from my files: NODES GONE!
It must be adding some sort of sharp filters with resonant peaks for their algos. Got it’s horribly misleading
—- back to topic.. I’ve never liked those reflection things. Better is go to bedroom, lean mattress up against the wall and sing directly into mattress
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Post by Shadowk on Jul 8, 2024 13:55:25 GMT -6
Had three of them, great for comb filtering. Rather just not bother..
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Post by frans on Jul 9, 2024 1:28:16 GMT -6
"Great for comb filtering!" "The best vintage comb filter, ever!" "What is the best vintage comb filter?"
We should market that to kids.
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Post by andersmv on Jul 9, 2024 5:30:35 GMT -6
I can’t remember which one, I think it was the Sphere digital modeling microphone (Now UA). They had a section that would digitally model a few reflection filter options. That was fun… 😂
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Post by itzprime on Jul 9, 2024 6:11:45 GMT -6
they don't help at all. If one has a terrible room, the best way is to take a cardiod microphone and go to one wall that is farthest removed from the opposite wall. Then use a matress or some other shielding at the wall behind you.
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Post by iamasound on Jul 9, 2024 6:37:42 GMT -6
This one actually works quite well. I was quite surprised that it didn't fluk up the sound...the Aston Halo.  |
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Post by chessparov on Jul 9, 2024 13:05:14 GMT -6
Wholly solution Batman! Chris |
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Post by tkaitkai on Jul 11, 2024 11:14:39 GMT -6
Had an SE Space filter years ago, and an Aston Halo prior to that.
The SE Space was the better of the two for sure. Still kinda wooly at times, but otherwise decent enough.
Important to remember the goal of a reflection filter is not to stop reflections from entering the mic, but to attenuate the level of vocals as they propagate outward into the room, which they actually do quite well considering the directionality of the human voice.
They're not going to hold up in a room with bare walls and hardwood floors, but can be a nice addition to basic panels and foam.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 11, 2024 13:00:08 GMT -6
I record my vocals at 90 degrees to my desk in fig 8 with the side pointing at the aircon about 4 metres away. I have a cloud above my head (cause I am essentially in my mix position). I have found the C-Vox plug in from UA extremely good.. have you tried that Johnkenn ? I essentially have two spots to record my vocals in my room...the other is the mirror end of the mix position, again under a cloud. That's where I recorded clients....but I find it way easier being near the screen and keyboard to my right when doing vox. That way I can easily do things on the DAW should I need to. Works really well for me. cheers Wiz Here's what I usually sing under. I don't have any audible room reflections, so I don't really need anything like Cvox... i.postimg.cc/DwrNQqHw/IMG-2687.jpg |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 11, 2024 15:59:00 GMT -6
PSA- Regarding resonant room nodes: I had been chasing weird nodes and artifacts for a while. First I thought it was my room. This went on for years, because I thought it was my room, and not much can do about it. So I figured I was mixing and letting nodes survive, or creating them and not hearing them. Then I moved, new place.. same nodes. Got ARC ran some scans; still weird nodes. So then I went hunting my chain, my DAW, my render settings, etc.. another rabbit hole. In the end the nodes were GOOGLE DRIVE! Yes.. I was listening in the car to Google drive.. for years. Just yesterday I accidentally listened to Drive again, same nodes again.. I stopped the car, downloaded to my files- play from my files: NODES GONE! It must be adding some sort of sharp filters with resonant peaks for their algos. Got it’s horribly misleading —- back to topic.. I’ve never liked those reflection things. Better is go to bedroom, lean mattress up against the wall and sing directly into mattress Wait - so you’re saying you wouldn’t hear the nodes until you listened to playback from google drive? |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 11, 2024 16:01:03 GMT -6
This one actually works quite well. I was quite surprised that it didn't fluk up the sound...the Aston Halo. Now that metal stand on the other hand… Which totally made me think about my two metal vent covers that I can get to resonate at a certain “ooooo” pitch. About to go to Lowes to buy some replacements. |
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Post by wiz on Jul 11, 2024 17:10:24 GMT -6
I record my vocals at 90 degrees to my desk in fig 8 with the side pointing at the aircon about 4 metres away. I have a cloud above my head (cause I am essentially in my mix position). I have found the C-Vox plug in from UA extremely good.. have you tried that Johnkenn ? I essentially have two spots to record my vocals in my room...the other is the mirror end of the mix position, again under a cloud. That's where I recorded clients....but I find it way easier being near the screen and keyboard to my right when doing vox. That way I can easily do things on the DAW should I need to. Works really well for me. cheers Wiz Here's what I usually sing under. I don't have any audible room reflections, so I don't really need anything like Cvox... i.postimg.cc/DwrNQqHw/IMG-2687.jpgIt does have a reduce the room function.... I don't really use that.. it's awesome at things like AC and background noise though... have you tried it at all? I use it on every vocal take now.. and I actually commit it. Room looks awesome btw.. .nice job cheers Wiz |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 11, 2024 19:11:52 GMT -6
It does have a reduce the room function.... I don't really use that.. it's awesome at things like AC and background noise though... have you tried it at all? I use it on every vocal take now.. and I actually commit it. Room looks awesome btw.. .nice job cheers Wiz I was just saying I don’t really need it. I think I demoed it and it was good for that stuff… |
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Post by bossanova on Jul 12, 2024 7:50:16 GMT -6
PSA- Regarding resonant room nodes: I had been chasing weird nodes and artifacts for a while. First I thought it was my room. This went on for years, because I thought it was my room, and not much can do about it. So I figured I was mixing and letting nodes survive, or creating them and not hearing them. Then I moved, new place.. same nodes. Got ARC ran some scans; still weird nodes. So then I went hunting my chain, my DAW, my render settings, etc.. another rabbit hole. In the end the nodes were GOOGLE DRIVE! Yes.. I was listening in the car to Google drive.. for years. Just yesterday I accidentally listened to Drive again, same nodes again.. I stopped the car, downloaded to my files- play from my files: NODES GONE! It must be adding some sort of sharp filters with resonant peaks for their algos. Got it’s horribly misleading —- back to topic.. I’ve never liked those reflection things. Better is go to bedroom, lean mattress up against the wall and sing directly into mattress Wait - so you’re saying you wouldn’t hear the nodes until you listened to playback from google drive? I think he's saying that the filtering Google Drive uses for streaming playback was essentially adding an additional EQ to the track that didn't reflect what's actually on there. |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jul 12, 2024 9:45:12 GMT -6
I had a Reflexion filter. It colored the sound in a negative way. Sold it.
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Post by andersmv on Jul 12, 2024 10:17:19 GMT -6
I record my vocals at 90 degrees to my desk in fig 8 with the side pointing at the aircon about 4 metres away. I have a cloud above my head (cause I am essentially in my mix position). I have found the C-Vox plug in from UA extremely good.. have you tried that Johnkenn ? I essentially have two spots to record my vocals in my room...the other is the mirror end of the mix position, again under a cloud. That's where I recorded clients....but I find it way easier being near the screen and keyboard to my right when doing vox. That way I can easily do things on the DAW should I need to. Works really well for me. cheers Wiz Here's what I usually sing under. I don't have any audible room reflections, so I don't really need anything like Cvox... i.postimg.cc/DwrNQqHw/IMG-2687.jpgYou need one or two of the GIK PIB's like I have. You can easily keep them folded down and out of the way against a wall when you're not using them. www.gikacoustics.com/product/pib-portable-isolation-vocal-booth/ |
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