|
|
Post by stevenson on Jun 13, 2024 18:20:37 GMT -6
I already have a audio interface, but I want to monitor my vocals with no latency in my headphones while hearing the track from my DAW, is there a way I can do this?
I have tried direct monitoring and software but I cant seem to get my pitch right with either of them.
|
|
|
|
Post by bossanova on Jun 13, 2024 18:40:11 GMT -6
I don’t know if this is what you’re describing, but MOTU M4 and SSL-2 have input/output mix knobs where input is the analog signal with no lag. You can mix the feed from the DAW to taste.
|
|
|
|
Post by the other mark williams on Jun 14, 2024 0:17:09 GMT -6
I already have a audio interface, but I want to monitor my vocals with no latency in my headphones while hearing the track from my DAW, is there a way I can do this? I have tried direct monitoring and software but I cant seem to get my pitch right with either of them. You've got to give us more info to be able to help you, man. What interface are you using? What DAW? What computer? Which headphones? Maybe even what microphone and preamp? |
|
|
|
Post by stevenson on Jun 14, 2024 4:31:48 GMT -6
Im using a apollo twin x audio interface, mac m1, at4040 mic and a pair of sony mdr headphones.
|
|
|
|
Post by stevenson on Jun 14, 2024 4:47:32 GMT -6
I don’t know if this is what you’re describing, but MOTU M4 and SSL-2 have input/output mix knobs where input is the analog signal with no lag. You can mix the feed from the DAW to taste. Does the SSL-2 let me direct monitor analog my mic without digital conversion into my headphones like a analog mixer? |
|
|
|
Post by gwlee7 on Jun 14, 2024 5:04:49 GMT -6
I think you’ll need to use the Apollo’s “console” mixer that is in its DSP to track without any latency.
|
|
|
|
Post by stevenson on Jun 14, 2024 6:31:32 GMT -6
I think you’ll need to use the Apollo’s “console” mixer that is in its DSP to track without any latency. Yes i know, but it still has latency, what I want is true analog zero latency monitor for my headphones not digital feed. |
|
|
|
Post by Dan on Jun 14, 2024 7:42:27 GMT -6
I think you’ll need to use the Apollo’s “console” mixer that is in its DSP to track without any latency. Yes i know, but it still has latency, what I want is true analog zero latency monitor for my headphones not digital feed. You need an analog mixer to monitor off of or a blend knob interface, which is in all sorts of cheap interfaces and in interfaces without dedicated drivers like the Neve 88m.
The RTL of many thunderbolt interfaces or on interface dsp mixers is very low at 88.2 and up on low buffers. UAD Console and Pro Tools HDX are the most notable ones but now RME, Metric Halo, Lynx (no fx), MOTU, Apogee (fx only in the newer interfaces), and even Steinberg interfaces in the budget end have DSP mixers and fx.
|
|
|
|
Post by doubledog on Jun 14, 2024 7:59:16 GMT -6
I think you’ll need to use the Apollo’s “console” mixer that is in its DSP to track without any latency. Yes i know, but it still has latency, what I want is true analog zero latency monitor for my headphones not digital feed. UA Console has "near zero latency" (because nothing has true zero latency - not even analog). Make sure you "mute" the track you have armed in your DAW while monitoring ONLY through UA Console and then you will not hear latency. If you are hearing latency it is because you have some path open in your DAW too (so if you have any Aux busses like reverb sends, etc. you may need to mute those). Then for playback, you will obviously need to unmute the tracks. If you are punching in, it gets a little trickier as you may have to mute right before the point where you are about to punch, but it works. I do this all the time and nobody has ever complained about latency unless I forget to mute the DAW track while recording. |
|
|
|
Post by EmRR on Jun 14, 2024 8:45:03 GMT -6
I added another patchbay to create a split path, one goes to interface, other to analog mixer for headphone feed. Stereo playback returns to mixer for overdub monitoring.
|
|
|
|
Post by thirdeye on Jun 14, 2024 11:07:12 GMT -6
I added another patchbay to create a split path, one goes to interface, other to analog mixer for headphone feed. Stereo playback returns to mixer for overdub monitoring. That sounds great! Do you have a sec to explain what you do for punch ins? |
|
|
|
Post by EmRR on Jun 14, 2024 11:11:25 GMT -6
I added another patchbay to create a split path, one goes to interface, other to analog mixer for headphone feed. Stereo playback returns to mixer for overdub monitoring. That sounds great! Do you have a sec to explain what you do for punch ins? simple - the stereo playback hits the same analog mixer, the live stuff blends with it while going to the DAW in parallel. All the analog inputs and the DAW playback are feeding a headphone cue mix system off the mixer direct outs, so I can either mix the live stuff into the phone stereo bus or leave it to the talent to blend. |
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,086 
|
Post by ericn on Jun 14, 2024 13:03:48 GMT -6
That sounds great! Do you have a sec to explain what you do for punch ins? simple - the stereo playback hits the same analog mixer, the live stuff blends with it while going to the DAW in parallel. All the analog inputs and the DAW playback are feeding a headphone cue mix system off the mixer direct outs, so I can either mix the live stuff into the phone stereo bus or leave it to the talent to blend. Yeah I was going to say a Mackie 1202 would be the perfect solution. |
|
|
|
Post by bossanova on Jun 14, 2024 20:09:16 GMT -6
I don’t know if this is what you’re describing, but MOTU M4 and SSL-2 have input/output mix knobs where input is the analog signal with no lag. You can mix the feed from the DAW to taste. Does the SSL-2 let me direct monitor analog my mic without digital conversion into my headphones like a analog mixer? Short answer: yes. |
|
|
|
Post by thehightenor on Jun 15, 2024 5:39:55 GMT -6
Yes i know, but it still has latency, what I want is true analog zero latency monitor for my headphones not digital feed. UA Console has "near zero latency" (because nothing has true zero latency - not even analog) ..... In what way is analog monitoring not true zero latency? I use an analog monitoring mixer and the last time I checked the electricity moves along the copper PCB and copper wires close to 99% speed of light! The speed of electricity through a copper wire is approximately 98-99% of the speed of light in a vacuum, which equates to about 300,000,000 meters per second or 186,000 miles per second.I think we can all agree that 99% the speed of light is zero latency  |
|
|
|
Post by mcirish on Jun 15, 2024 6:31:43 GMT -6
I use a Lynx Aurora. Their mixer allows monitoring direct from the input. It's zero latency. Of course, it has no effects on it either but zero latency is important for many people. Maybe your converter has a similar function?
|
|
|
|
Post by EmRR on Jun 15, 2024 7:45:54 GMT -6
I’ll add I’m in the MOTU AVB world, which has a zero/low latency mixer, but it’s a F-in’ pain in the ass on any multi-input session. In my view, really requires a dedicated screen and second operator if you want to avoid complete multitask hell in which you do nothing well, don’t take good notes, and barely notice the performances.
|
|
|
|
Post by popmann on Jun 15, 2024 8:20:18 GMT -6
I have Y connectors installed on my Burl inputs. One leg to the ADC...one to a cheap analog line mixer.
A stereo pair come from the RME DAW outs to a stereo channel on the same mixer.
Headphones are plugged into the analog mixer.
that should be sort of signal flow 101. Inside the DAW gets trickier. Basically, while I have to click slightly different buttons depending on the DAW involved...in principle it's the same:
Channel1: Rec enable but DO NOT input monitor enable. This is recording your actual vocal. Send this normally to the reverb--but you can't hear that reverb on the live input since you're not input monitoring, SO....
Channel 2: I label "RevSend"...I input monitor enable it, but DON'T record enable it. I stick a WavesVU on it as an insert, for input level checking because it's always hot...and it's output is routed to the normal vocal reverb--I don't mean via a send, I mean it's input is Burl Left...and it's output is Rev_Plate.
So, punching is fine, because you hear playback from Ch1, but as soon as you hit record, you no longer hear Ch1. And you ALWAYS hear the live input with reverb in the headphones, so you sing alone with whatever lead in you need to...The only thing to keep in mind is that when you go to listen to a take on the speakers, you MUTE the Ch2 above. I actually set it up for my own vocals so that the only things on the MCU faders are the vocal(Ch1), RevSend(ch2) and the Reverb return to adjust level. That just makes it quicker to quickly mute the one...change reverb levels...so I can just sing and just use the MCU+Remote once set up...
Within some amount of reason, latency on the reverb is irrelevant. I typically have 50ms predelay on a vocal reverb. WORST case, you can make that zero if there's a TON of latency...but, in the real world, for me? I never even detect it. I would think you wouldn't want to use a latent UAD reverb that has to make a whole separate round trip from your audio card--if you want to do this as a UAD user, I'd BET you could set up the 100% wet reverb send in Console rather than the DAW using similar principles.
|
|
|
|
Post by popmann on Jun 15, 2024 8:23:12 GMT -6
In rereading, to be clear, you NEED your mic preamp to be external for this to work. My ADC is, too--but don't let that confuse you, that's not NEEDED at all...you can do this same thing with the one mic preamp with a Y cable on it's output. But, NONE of it can be done at all if you're plugging a mic into the preamp on an audio interface.
|
|
|
|
Post by doubledog on Jun 15, 2024 8:24:26 GMT -6
UA Console has "near zero latency" (because nothing has true zero latency - not even analog) ..... In what way is analog monitoring not true zero latency? I use an analog monitoring mixer and the last time I checked the electricity moves along the copper PCB and copper wires close to 99% speed of light! The speed of electricity through a copper wire is approximately 98-99% of the speed of light in a vacuum, which equates to about 300,000,000 meters per second or 186,000 miles per second.I think we can all agree that 99% the speed of light is zero latency thank you for proving my point  |
|
|
|
Post by FM77 on Jun 15, 2024 8:30:29 GMT -6
I have Y connectors installed on my Burl inputs. One leg to the ADC...one to a cheap analog line mixer. A stereo pair come from the RME DAW outs to a stereo channel on the same mixer. Headphones are plugged into the analog mixer. that should be sort of signal flow 101. Inside the DAW gets trickier. Basically, while I have to click slightly different buttons depending on the DAW involved...in principle it's the same: Channel1: Rec enable but DO NOT input monitor enable. This is recording your actual vocal. Send this normally to the reverb--but you can't hear that reverb on the live input since you're not input monitoring, SO.... Channel 2: I label "RevSend"...I input monitor enable it, but DON'T record enable it. I stick a WavesVU on it as an insert, for input level checking because it's always hot...and it's output is routed to the normal vocal reverb--I don't mean via a send, I mean it's input is Burl Left...and it's output is Rev_Plate. So, punching is fine, because you hear playback from Ch1, but as soon as you hit record, you no longer hear Ch1. And you ALWAYS hear the live input with reverb in the headphones, so you sing alone with whatever lead in you need to...The only thing to keep in mind is that when you go to listen to a take on the speakers, you MUTE the Ch2 above. I actually set it up for my own vocals so that the only things on the MCU faders are the vocal(Ch1), RevSend(ch2) and the Reverb return to adjust level. That just makes it quicker to quickly mute the one...change reverb levels...so I can just sing and just use the MCU+Remote once set up... Within some amount of reason, latency on the reverb is irrelevant. I typically have 50ms predelay on a vocal reverb. WORST case, you can make that zero if there's a TON of latency...but, in the real world, for me? I never even detect it. I would think you wouldn't want to use a latent UAD reverb that has to make a whole separate round trip from your audio card--if you want to do this as a UAD user, I'd BET you could set up the 100% wet reverb send in Console rather than the DAW using similar principles.
RME DAW?
I am guessing you meant interface? Do you have totalmix? If so, none of the above is necessary.
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,086
|
Post by ericn on Jun 15, 2024 8:52:11 GMT -6
UA Console has "near zero latency" (because nothing has true zero latency - not even analog) ..... In what way is analog monitoring not true zero latency? I use an analog monitoring mixer and the last time I checked the electricity moves along the copper PCB and copper wires close to 99% speed of light! The speed of electricity through a copper wire is approximately 98-99% of the speed of light in a vacuum, which equates to about 300,000,000 meters per second or 186,000 miles per second.I think we can all agree that 99% the speed of light is zero latency Well it could be one hell of a long PCB, trace.😁 |
|
|
|
Post by thehightenor on Jun 15, 2024 9:02:21 GMT -6
In what way is analog monitoring not true zero latency? I use an analog monitoring mixer and the last time I checked the electricity moves along the copper PCB and copper wires close to 99% speed of light! The speed of electricity through a copper wire is approximately 98-99% of the speed of light in a vacuum, which equates to about 300,000,000 meters per second or 186,000 miles per second.I think we can all agree that 99% the speed of light is zero latency thanks you for proving my point I think your point just vanished at the speed of light  |
|
|
|
Post by popmann on Jun 15, 2024 12:53:49 GMT -6
I have Y connectors installed on my Burl inputs. One leg to the ADC...one to a cheap analog line mixer. A stereo pair come from the RME DAW outs to a stereo channel on the same mixer. Headphones are plugged into the analog mixer. that should be sort of signal flow 101. Inside the DAW gets trickier. Basically, while I have to click slightly different buttons depending on the DAW involved...in principle it's the same: Channel1: Rec enable but DO NOT input monitor enable. This is recording your actual vocal. Send this normally to the reverb--but you can't hear that reverb on the live input since you're not input monitoring, SO.... Channel 2: I label "RevSend"...I input monitor enable it, but DON'T record enable it. I stick a WavesVU on it as an insert, for input level checking because it's always hot...and it's output is routed to the normal vocal reverb--I don't mean via a send, I mean it's input is Burl Left...and it's output is Rev_Plate. So, punching is fine, because you hear playback from Ch1, but as soon as you hit record, you no longer hear Ch1. And you ALWAYS hear the live input with reverb in the headphones, so you sing alone with whatever lead in you need to...The only thing to keep in mind is that when you go to listen to a take on the speakers, you MUTE the Ch2 above. I actually set it up for my own vocals so that the only things on the MCU faders are the vocal(Ch1), RevSend(ch2) and the Reverb return to adjust level. That just makes it quicker to quickly mute the one...change reverb levels...so I can just sing and just use the MCU+Remote once set up... Within some amount of reason, latency on the reverb is irrelevant. I typically have 50ms predelay on a vocal reverb. WORST case, you can make that zero if there's a TON of latency...but, in the real world, for me? I never even detect it. I would think you wouldn't want to use a latent UAD reverb that has to make a whole separate round trip from your audio card--if you want to do this as a UAD user, I'd BET you could set up the 100% wet reverb send in Console rather than the DAW using similar principles.
RME DAW?
I am guessing you meant interface? Do you have totalmix? If so, none of the above is necessary.
Yes, the analog outputs of my digital audio workstation, which is RME hardware. Of course I have Totalmix. By "none" of the above, I assume you mean the analog mixer part. The software DAW routing for reverb would be the same if you wanted to use the Totalmix hardware digital mixer. I don't have a modern RME that has reverb, but honestly--nor would I want that really--to use a different reverb than playback? Ehh. Better than nothing, probably? Feel free to tell yourself that the analog mixer part isn't needed...and sure, maybe "need" is variable and overstating, but a hardware digital headphone cue is NOT the same result as analog. It's not even a singing thing alone--I have the same effect with fretless bass. Track is done in WAY less time with an analog feed in the phones. Half of the reason there's so much vocal tuning now, is engineers not knowing any better give the people they're recording digital feeds. While it IS about latency, it's not a "hearable" scale of latency. Not like when you use software monitoring and there's a noticeable delay--that's unacceptable for ANYONE...and sure--Totamix or any other hardware digital mixer will make the conscious echo go away. That's not the problem being addressed here. |
|
|
|
Post by FM77 on Jun 15, 2024 13:57:11 GMT -6
RME DAW?
I am guessing you meant interface? Do you have totalmix? If so, none of the above is necessary.
Yes, the analog outputs of my digital audio workstation, which is RME hardware. Of course I have Totalmix. By "none" of the above, I assume you mean the analog mixer part. The software DAW routing for reverb would be the same if you wanted to use the Totalmix hardware digital mixer. I don't have a modern RME that has reverb, but honestly--nor would I want that really--to use a different reverb than playback? Ehh. Better than nothing, probably? Feel free to tell yourself that the analog mixer part isn't needed...and sure, maybe "need" is variable and overstating, but a hardware digital headphone cue is NOT the same result as analog. It's not even a singing thing alone--I have the same effect with fretless bass. Track is done in WAY less time with an analog feed in the phones. Half of the reason there's so much vocal tuning now, is engineers not knowing any better give the people they're recording digital feeds. While it IS about latency, it's not a "hearable" scale of latency. Not like when you use software monitoring and there's a noticeable delay--that's unacceptable for ANYONE...and sure--Totamix or any other hardware digital mixer will make the conscious echo go away. That's not the problem being addressed here. Nah, I am not telling myself anything. Just different strokes. I record using a hybrid setup, including tape. Over two decades with RME and Nuendo or Cubase. 32 channels of hardware (including verbs) into Totalmix. No hindering latency issues. I monitor hardware reverb in realtime or print with it. Or use the loopback function and create two tracks, dry and wet.
As for the OP, I do think that is what is being addressed. I think he was monitoring the input of the armed track, not the input of his source.
|
|
