|
Post by ragan on Jun 12, 2024 21:48:17 GMT -6
The other strange thing, I did some research this year into college endowments, and they are off the charts. All the biggest campuses have enough to survive off bond interest alone. They could have free tuition at this point. Or close all campuses and do better just on interest. Seems like something is up, too weird so many are blasted way up there. Those giant endowments are the exception rather than the norm. And it's not necessarily the "biggest" schools that have the biggest endowments, but the sort of 'fanciest'. The top 15 or 20 of those schools do indeed have enormous endowments (which skews the overall figures). Then there’s a pretty steep drop off as you go down the list. Your average ‘regular’ university still survives largely on tuition.
|
|
|
Post by thehightenor on Jun 13, 2024 1:23:49 GMT -6
I’m all for complex analysis.
But you know, I don’t think it’s so complex.
For a hundred different reasons the world has moved on and music is no longer the star around which youth culture orbits as it once did when I was 16.
It is what it is.
To coin that useless phrase.
|
|
|
Post by gwlee7 on Jun 13, 2024 5:27:49 GMT -6
Instead of “video killed the radio star”, it’s now video games killed the audio star.
|
|
|
Post by ml on Jun 13, 2024 6:03:05 GMT -6
Just because things aren’t being done the way I would have done them or would have been involved in when I was in college doesn’t mean things aren’t moving and shaking. I’m 41 and anytime I’m around college aged or younger folks I have absolutely no clue what they are doing or talking about. It’s a different universe and I won’t pretend to know enough to comment on it. I don’t assume to correlate listening to radio as having interest in music. Shit I haven’t turned on the radio in over 5 years and why would I? It’s the same 20 songs played on their genre specific station over and over and over again. I agree that hardly anyone listens to the radio anymore, even older generations. With the constant barrage of ads and the generic, corporate playlists. Back in the day, my two local stations were so predictable they played the same songs in the same order, but one was always a track ahead. It was like having an instant replay button whenever you switched stations.
|
|
|
Post by svart on Jun 13, 2024 6:50:11 GMT -6
I haven't read all the responses, but I'll reply to the original post first..
I'd say no. I went to college back in the 90's and I don't remember anyone "trading" anything. CDs were just becoming affordable and CD players in cars were starting to become a thing as well as portable CD players becoming available.
Most kids I knew in college had favorite bands and had tapes or CDs of them already. Generally they found the band via the radio then went and bought the album.
I don't think college had much to do with it. I think radio had more to do with it, but even then, I think MTV still had a considerable influence too.
So here's my take.
I think the increase in availability of music caused the downfall of "music".
Think about it.. Back then, there was only a few songs you might have liked on the radio/MTV/movies/TV show/etc so you went and found it and bought the album, then listened to the songs you liked from the album until you got tired and then found something else. You remembered the bands because there were only a few of them being promoted.
It also took effort and time to go through this process, much like watching shows or movies on TV used to be.. With just a few channels, you planned around what you might want to watch, etc.
But with the rise of availability, you start hearing more stuff that falls within your likes and you spend less effort and time searching and now it's just served up by the hundreds. Band after band of similar music shuffles through your streaming service and each track sounding more similar to the last and nothing stands out anymore.
You've become ear-blind because it's all too similar and when you're exposed to something so much, it means less and less.
You end up listening to the genre instead of the artists.
And then you start listening to it as "background" filler rather than listening to the songs. Same thing happened to TV as well. Now you have cable with 200 channels and 4 streaming services that you pay for but can never seem to find anything to watch.. Because it's far too much choice to be decisive. You struggle to find something to watch while you eat dinner and then you turn it off four seconds after you take your last bite of food, then you turn on some music while you do the dishes or the laundry.
College didn't kill anything but careers with their hundred choices of worthless diplomas that cost more than someone will ever earn with that diploma.
What killed music and TV is too much choice. When people are faced with too many choices, they tend to not choose anything.
|
|
|
Post by Hudsonic on Jun 13, 2024 7:03:49 GMT -6
College campuses are not collapsing. Absurd commentary. Inaccurate
|
|
|
Post by FM77 on Jun 13, 2024 7:14:03 GMT -6
The end is near ... again.
Attachments:
|
|
|
Post by frans on Jun 13, 2024 7:41:59 GMT -6
Most parts of society are now being used to format people. Most outlets of "information" are just control signals. Creativity is potentially jamming this process so it's not wanted. A part of society is vulnerable to this, another (smaller) part is not. For this reason, the nations of the so called free world are in varying degrees of a downward spiral concering military, economic, technological and cultural power. Until the mechanisms and forces behind that are exposed the decline will go on. But college campuses today aren't what they once were. These are no longer places where new ideas are shared and kids barely out of high school take daring counter-cultural positions and try them on for size. College has become just another echo chamber for the same thoughts and beliefs that you can get anywhere else in Western society. We've dismantled all the institutions that used to sit outside the world of corporate balance sheets
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,086
|
Post by ericn on Jun 13, 2024 7:56:14 GMT -6
College campuses are not collapsing. Absurd commentary. Inaccurate The unwritten law of capitalism, only the strongest survive has certainly applied to and led to the closing of many smaller weaker schools who during the pre pandemic boom spent every cent on expansion of “ remote campuses. Well the expensive class A office spaces they called remote campuses. The perception of a crisis of a exists because most of the public has seen it all play out through the lens of copycat journalism that is partly the result of the weakened programs that was the result of all these expansion dreams planned out by MBA’s who attended these expansion dreams. But nobody saw it coming.
|
|
|
Post by ml on Jun 13, 2024 8:23:53 GMT -6
I wanted to add that back when I was in college around 2010s, music was everything. Every party, tailgate, and even low-key hangout had music bumping. By Friday afternoon, if you walked around campus, all you would hear was music blaring as everyone got hyped for the weekend. Kanye was huge then, I can remember everywhere you went you would hear “can’t tell me nothing” playing. Every party seemed to have a mix of current hit songs and whatever the host/dj had on their iPod. We even hired bagpipers for our St. Patty’s Day parties. Everyone had their own playlists, and that’s how we discovered new music at parties. I don’t know if it’s still like that but I can’t imagine a college party or hangout without some sort of music. Frankly I can’t imagine any modern party without music, hell even your funeral will have music.
|
|
|
Post by robo on Jun 13, 2024 8:30:42 GMT -6
Counterpoint: the rise of community non-profit radio stations. This has happened for a number of reasons: FCC relaxing restrictions, aging DJ’s with big record collections, disgust with commercial programmed radio, etc. I’ve seen it in small towns and big cities, and it is rad. There’s hope yet.
There are still college stations like KEXP with a strong online presence, which are better resources for discovering new music than they ever were. They are still tastemakers, along with influential playlists on streamers. Then social media, of course, has organically let some very talented folks find their audiences.
It’s a shifting landscape, as it ever was. Music is more alive than ever, with everyone having access to distribution channels. The only thing that is harder is making a living at it.
|
|
|
Post by smashlord on Jun 13, 2024 9:25:52 GMT -6
This is all a bit baffling to me....
"gatekeeping its way to irrelevance and mediocrity" If you only follow the "mainstream" (whatever that is these days), I guess, but I see more and more people creating more new and diverse forms of music now than I have ever in the past. More people have access to making music and recording. I mean, that is something that is lamented on the regular on this forum.... that there is an abundance of amateurs doing this "taking money out of our pockets"!
There are tons of forms of music that were once underground and are now selling out big festivals and venues, just like was the situation with Nirvana. Hardcore punk, for example, has absolutely exploded in the past several years. Turnstile went on tour with Blink 182 and was able to demand a cut well into the 7 figures. I went to a local show to see a client play about a year ago where it was at capacity on a Monday night! 400+ heads in a VFW hall. 20 years ago, you'd be lucky if you got 50-100 on a Friday night @ a hardcore show.
I saw a Rick Beato video where he was doing his usual spiel about how "rock is dead" and "no one wants Les Pauls and tube amps" any more. Meanwhile, a sizable chunk of my young clientele all either have or want LPs and come in with vintage Fenders or Victoria replicas. They all love Led Zeppelin, The Eagles, Fleetwood Mac and love those 70's tones. He sounded like an out of touch boomer living in his little 90's/2000's rock bubble.
As a reminder to us all, just because something is not on our radar, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist or is not happening.
|
|
|
Post by Dan on Jun 13, 2024 10:24:14 GMT -6
Phones/streaming are the main culprit but I think something that often gets overlooked in the decline of the popularity of music is social media. We simply have more ways to entertain ourselves & pass the time than we did before. Podcasts take the place of music for roadtrips(I’m guilty of this) and endless scrolling through social media. It’s not a step forward for society I don’t think in any way. We’re just more distracted & it’s killed our attention span for things like sitting still and just listening to music. Most people don’t just eat a meal, they eat + scroll, they don’t just watch a movie, they watch + scroll…heck, we can’t even drop a deuce these days without a phone in hand 🤣 As far as another Public Enemy, Nirvana, etc… I think the fear of stepping out of line is way stronger than it used to be because there’s so much less revenue(streaming instead of sales). Bands not really having “F.U.” level money any longer plus the threat of cancel culture is a great deterrent. It’s sad but at some point over the past few years most bands decided to start raging for the machine instead of against it. There is nothing transgressive about modern popular music. Tailor Swift just tried to copy Madonna’s Erotica and Sex but unlike Madonna there is nothing sexual about Tailor Swift. She also copied and collaborated with Florence Welch who copied Loreena McKennitt. It is the dumbed downed robot music of the already dumbed downed, tuned mostly robotic music. And that’s just the most popular artist. Nirvana and Public Enemy were transgressive. The b side of nevermind is nuts for a pop rock record that often sounds like a heavier cheap trick with polly, territorial pissings, breed, drain you. even lyrically. polly is explicitly about a teenage girl getting kidnapped, tortured, raped, and presumably murdered from the perspective of the serial killer. The radio never really bothered with the b side. If a kid likes that and doesn’t just wear the shirts, it’s a gateway drug into hardcore and celtic frost, and then you can pretty much play him death metal. it only takes like a few steps from a diamond record to get kid into crazy shit and then into real music from the people who made the crazy shit who could play and guys who made the poppier stuff who could really play like soundgarden. Black Hole Sun is a gibberish lyric psychedelic rock song played through a Leslie and Kim Thayil has a shred solo in the middle of it. Yeah they fader rode it down but it’s there, it’s cool, and it’s a gateway drug to all kinds of crazy psych rock and shred metal. The same with Jesus Christ Pose. When I was a kid I wanted more bands that sounded like that. And I found no other rock bands who sounded that heavy and fast until I got into Bolt Thrower, Cathedral, and Incantation. And Jesus Christ Pose was banned from MTV for being anti organized religion and Incantation? Holy shit those Miran Kim paintings are still surreal today like Larry Carrol in an abattoir. They’re disgusting and revolting in a way Tipper Gore could never imagine. 90s metal was insane until it was corporatized and the artists like Morbid Angel got on major labels like Giant Records but even though it got dumbed down, Warner Brothers signed a death metal band. I mean Beherit got on Universal in the early 2000s and all of the wall of noise stuff ended up in mainstream record stores. And it still sells. NWN is killing it with the reissues and merchandise that UMG wanted no part of. They’re not interested in free money. They’re interested in social media influencers to please their corporate owners who are all lazy sloths making new music that sounds like trash while the old music is out of print. Warner let all of this metal stuff go out of print for bands who still tour every year like Deicide and Suffocation. It’s free, easy money. It’s just that they gutted their a&r, their low level marketing guys, etc. Warner owned Roadrunner and let all those titles that sold go out of print after they fired Monte Connor. Anyway the industry is run by shitty conglomerates who are so vertically integrated they have no idea what’s going on now, what record is selling 500 copies, who sold a few hundred demo cassettes, and if they can make that a few thousand lps and CDs and get some real money and do that 100 times. Instead they’d rather license out crap they own the rights to and sue rappers for sampling.
|
|
|
Post by Dan on Jun 13, 2024 11:33:40 GMT -6
Rick Beato is kinda in his own commercial rock bubble feedback loop. Like he talks about progressive metal sometimes but has never mentioned Death or Opeth.
He did make entire videos about Swervedriver though who are an amazing band. I will give him that. He showed them to a wider, younger audience who watch him for his “boomer takes”
|
|
|
Post by geoff738 on Jun 13, 2024 11:51:20 GMT -6
Nice to see Loreena mentioned. My buddy Pete and his wife and a couple of their friends often serve as her backing band.
As for metal, the new Kings X brings the heavy. Dug is what, 72 or something and still kicks ass.
Onto the subject of the thread. My kid, who is 18, often chides me for listening to boomer guitar bands. He couldn’t have less interest. Music just never clicked for him, although he heard plenty of it growing up. He is on the spectrum, so when something clicks it usually has staying power. Music just never did. Otoh another friend has a kid on the spectrum who is the same age and is studying trumpet at university. He obviously got the bug in a big way. Although he doesn’t listen to much of the same music his dad did and does.
Cheers, Geoff
|
|
|
Post by kbsmoove on Jun 14, 2024 17:32:30 GMT -6
What killed music and TV is too much choice. i'm happy to live in a world where more people have access to the tools they need to create art. and i'm happy to have access to endless artistic ideas. these are only good things for both artists and fans of art. capitalism is what is killing music and every other thing.
|
|
|
Post by indiehouse on Jun 14, 2024 18:25:59 GMT -6
Instead of “video killed the radio star”, it’s now video games killed the audio star. Probably more like Tik-Tok/YouTube Shorts. Kids don’t have the attention span for an entire song, let alone a full album.
|
|
|
Post by svart on Jun 14, 2024 19:04:11 GMT -6
What killed music and TV is too much choice. i'm happy to live in a world where more people have access to the tools they need to create art. and i'm happy to have access to endless artistic ideas. these are only good things for both artists and fans of art. capitalism is what is killing music and every other thing. No. I disagree. Capitalism gives people what they want. It gave artists the tools and the access you talk about. It's the desire of the people that's killing music. They want more and more for cheaper and the ability to consume without effort is what's devalued music.
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,086
|
Post by ericn on Jun 14, 2024 20:12:14 GMT -6
i'm happy to live in a world where more people have access to the tools they need to create art. and i'm happy to have access to endless artistic ideas. these are only good things for both artists and fans of art. capitalism is what is killing music and every other thing. No. I disagree. Capitalism gives people what they want. It gave artists the tools and the access you talk about. It's the desire of the people that's killing music. They want more and more for cheaper and the ability to consume without effort is what's devalued music. Umm that would be capitalism, the market sets the price, if nobody wants to pay it the price goes down.
|
|
|
Post by honkeur on Jun 14, 2024 22:20:07 GMT -6
Music has always had an uneasy relationship with capitalism. Music doesn’t function very well as a commodity, because it is immaterial. Oil, steel, pork bellies — these are perfectly fine commodities. Music can’t quite fit in.
If I’m correct, then the proper place for music is outside the marketplace. There it can be itself. Hmmm, didn’t Margaret Thatcher say that nothing can be outside the marketplace? Well, I have heard truly great music that proves Margaret Thatcher wrong.
|
|
|
Post by midsideforlife on Jun 15, 2024 6:12:25 GMT -6
The Replacements and others that hit their stride when college kids were passing around tapes of their music along with They Might Be Giants and The Pogues and Talking Heads and all kinds of things that were not on mainstream radio. But college campuses today aren't what they once were. These are no longer places where new ideas are shared College rock wasn't primarily driven by college students, it was driven by the audience of college radio stations who were allowed to have more wattage than they are now by the FCC. This created a commercial outlet for less mainstream music, allowing more people to make it and participate. The audience was everyone listening to those stations, not just students. The FCC killed "college rock".
|
|
|
Post by kbsmoove on Jun 15, 2024 9:12:14 GMT -6
i'm happy to live in a world where more people have access to the tools they need to create art. and i'm happy to have access to endless artistic ideas. these are only good things for both artists and fans of art. capitalism is what is killing music and every other thing. No. I disagree. Capitalism gives people what they want. It gave artists the tools and the access you talk about. It's the desire of the people that's killing music. They want more and more for cheaper and the ability to consume without effort is what's devalued music. capitalism gives us billionaire artists and highly inflated ticket prices. and it gives us an industry that generally only promotes easy money clones of already popular artists. there is more money in music than ever before, but most of us have to be happy with our $.003 per stream. the industry values artists less than ever before.
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Jun 15, 2024 12:58:41 GMT -6
It's the Collapse of Common Sense! I do like 10CC.
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Jun 15, 2024 13:00:31 GMT -6
i'm happy to live in a world where more people have access to the tools they need to create art. and i'm happy to have access to endless artistic ideas. these are only good things for both artists and fans of art. capitalism is what is killing music and every other thing. No. I disagree. Capitalism gives people what they want. It gave artists the tools and the access you talk about. It's the desire of the people that's killing music. They want more and more for cheaper and the ability to consume without effort is what's devalued music. MORE Taylor Swift is needed.
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Jun 15, 2024 13:03:59 GMT -6
This is all a bit baffling to me.... "gatekeeping its way to irrelevance and mediocrity" If you only follow the "mainstream" (whatever that is these days), I guess, but I see more and more people creating more new and diverse forms of music now than I have ever in the past. More people have access to making music and recording. I mean, that is something that is lamented on the regular on this forum.... that there is an abundance of amateurs doing this "taking money out of our pockets"! There are tons of forms of music that were once underground and are now selling out big festivals and venues, just like was the situation with Nirvana. Hardcore punk, for example, has absolutely exploded in the past several years. Turnstile went on tour with Blink 182 and was able to demand a cut well into the 7 figures. I went to a local show to see a client play about a year ago where it was at capacity on a Monday night! 400+ heads in a VFW hall. 20 years ago, you'd be lucky if you got 50-100 on a Friday night @ a hardcore show. I saw a Rick Beato video where he was doing his usual spiel about how "rock is dead" and "no one wants Les Pauls and tube amps" any more. Meanwhile, a sizable chunk of my young clientele all either have or want LPs and come in with vintage Fenders or Victoria replicas. They all love Led Zeppelin, The Eagles, Fleetwood Mac and love those 70's tones. He sounded like an out of touch boomer living in his little 90's/2000's rock bubble. I prefer "Oasis".
|
|