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Post by bossanova on Jun 2, 2024 21:01:12 GMT -6
Another vote for Yamaha boxes from the SPX90 lineage. Chorus, Symphonic, Pitch Change C, Reverse, of course, but I also like Vocal Plate. Kind of like the poor man’s 224 on vocals. Gated Verb, Early Reflections, Echo and Delay…all interesting with heaps of vintage digital charm.
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Post by thirdeye on Jun 2, 2024 23:02:43 GMT -6
PCM 70 is the best bargain/biggest leap over plug-ins to me. You can find a deal around $750 from time to time. I’m one of the weird ones that still uses all outboard fx 😁 Same here. I've got 3 x 70's! I bought two of them for 1k package deal, but that was 2018 I think... |
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Post by ontravelling on Jun 3, 2024 3:12:30 GMT -6
I have been really digging the OTO Machines BAM. Super fun on a lot of things. Have also been using the Meris MercuryX which sounds great though it can be pretty menu divey.
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Post by FM77 on Jun 3, 2024 5:26:12 GMT -6
I always loved the Lexi PCM 60. But it's a bit north of 500 these days. I've got fond memories of my old Lexi MPX 100 (or maybe it was MPX-1...? I can't remember), but not sure it's 'good' so much as 'sentimental'. I honestly don't remember. Edit: Wait, it was the MPX 500. That was the one. Loved that sucker. I used the PCM60 in my studio guitar rig for years. I eventually started using the verb in the AXE-FX for guitar, but I love everything I listen back to that I recorded with the PCM60 and hung onto it until last year. I don't miss it yet, but would be happy to use it again.
Sentimental perhaps, but the MPX 500 and MPX1 deserve their place in the sub $500 consideration. The MPX1 was my first proper hardware verb and a centerpiece to the new 1604 VLZ and Blackface ADAT in my home studio in 1998. PCMs were in vogue so neither got the love they are worthy of although more engineers were using the MPX1 than they talked about. I used to see them everywhere. For me it was joined by the Yamaha Rev 500. I kept that for 20 years. Another worthy sub $500 piece.
Most of these you can get for the price of a plugin ($150-$300)
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Post by ninworks on Jun 3, 2024 5:47:09 GMT -6
Yeah, more than $500 but PCM70. The sound quality is better than my UA 480L plugin although noisier. Noise ain't no thang and can be dealt with these days.
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Post by thirdeye on Jun 3, 2024 6:15:27 GMT -6
I have been really digging the OTO Machines BAM. Super fun on a lot of things. Have also been using the Meris MercuryX which sounds great though it can be pretty menu divey. Since they can do line in/line out level, I have my Meris Mercury 7 and my Strymon Big Sky pedals setup as hardware inserts in Pro Tools. Love em! |
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Post by thehightenor on Jun 3, 2024 6:44:28 GMT -6
I always loved the Lexi PCM 60. But it's a bit north of 500 these days. I've got fond memories of my old Lexi MPX 100 (or maybe it was MPX-1...? I can't remember), but not sure it's 'good' so much as 'sentimental'. I honestly don't remember. Edit: Wait, it was the MPX 500. That was the one. Loved that sucker. I used the PCM60 in my studio guitar rig for years. I eventually started using the verb in the AXE-FX for guitar, but I love everything I listen back to that I recorded with the PCM60 and hung onto it until last year. I don't miss it yet, but would be happy to use it again.
Sentimental perhaps, but the MPX 500 and MPX1 deserve their place in the sub $500 consideration. The MPX1 was my first proper hardware verb and a centerpiece to the new 1604 VLZ and Blackface ADAT in my home studio in 1998. PCMs were in vogue so neither got the love they are worthy of although more engineers were using the MPX1 than they talked about. I used to see them everywhere. For me it was joined by the Yamaha Rev 500. I kept that for 20 years. Another worthy sub $500 piece.
Most of these you can get for the price of a plugin ($150-$300)
Beat me to it. I had an MPX 500 in my rack many years ago for tracking reverb. It was surprisingly good and heaps of fun. Kinda regret selling it. |
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Post by sentientsound on Jun 3, 2024 7:46:09 GMT -6
I have been really digging the OTO Machines BAM. Super fun on a lot of things. Have also been using the Meris MercuryX which sounds great though it can be pretty menu divey. Another vote for the BAM. Available new for around the $500 budget. The interface is a bit annoying unless you memorize where things are or have external MIDI control, but the sound is fantastic, varied and full of character. It overdrives well too and takes modest line level input. OTO finally released a firmware update this year to add 2 more verb modes (Midiverb bloom style and lofi springy boing) and additional chorusing levels, among other small changes. PCM60, 70, and 90 can still be found occasionally for cheap, each one has a different appeal. The 60 is simple and immediate and has great input distortion, the 70 is a great way to get some 224-esque vibes on vocals and keys, then the 90 has great halls, rooms, and plates - more modern and open Lex sound but still has some funky 18 or 20-bit converters if I recall. The used PCMs seem to be more expensive lately though, in the range of $700-1,000. If you can find any of those closer to $500 in working order it's a good deal! |
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Post by thirdeye on Jun 3, 2024 8:14:36 GMT -6
I always loved the Lexi PCM 60. But it's a bit north of 500 these days. I've got fond memories of my old Lexi MPX 100 (or maybe it was MPX-1...? I can't remember), but not sure it's 'good' so much as 'sentimental'. I honestly don't remember. Edit: Wait, it was the MPX 500. That was the one. Loved that sucker. I used the PCM60 in my studio guitar rig for years. I eventually started using the verb in the AXE-FX for guitar, but I love everything I listen back to that I recorded with the PCM60 and hung onto it until last year. I don't miss it yet, but would be happy to use it again.
Sentimental perhaps, but the MPX 500 and MPX1 deserve their place in the sub $500 consideration. The MPX1 was my first proper hardware verb and a centerpiece to the new 1604 VLZ and Blackface ADAT in my home studio in 1998. PCMs were in vogue so neither got the love they are worthy of although more engineers were using the MPX1 than they talked about. I used to see them everywhere. For me it was joined by the Yamaha Rev 500. I kept that for 20 years. Another worthy sub $500 piece.
Most of these you can get for the price of a plugin ($150-$300)
Taking me back...Ha! I couldn't afford the MPX1 at the time, so I had the lowly Alex in my home studio, next to the Rev 7 hooked up to my 24x8. I would borrow my buddies MPX1 on mix days. Ha! I also recall a Quadraverb, I think a Digitech DSP 55, dbx and symetrix compressors... I didn't really get along with the REV or the Alex, just had to deal until I could upgrade. |
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Post by Dan on Jun 3, 2024 8:20:49 GMT -6
Yeah, more than $500 but PCM70. The sound quality is better than my UA 480L plugin although noisier. Noise ain't no thang and can be dealt with these days. Yep and the algorithms were tuned for the old converters and primitive fixed point dsps. The ported algorithms to modern cpus don’t sound as good as the pcm 60 and 70, they would have to be tweaked or coded to have the same spatial effects or so that the modern cpu runs the algorithms with the noise and distortion of the primitive dsp chips. The algorithm ports (UAD Lexicon, UAD and PSP EMT. PSP Lexicon delays), convolutions (wave alchemy and bettermaker) and black box recreations (ddmf emt, relab, etc) don’t seem to bother and want a lot of money when you can just get something new. Yeah the SP2016 or 2445 on fire sale is cool but none of the recreations will give you the dark 80s movie dialogue sound or the exact every ballad ever random hall and they want to charge you a couple hundred bucks to not give you what you want. My view is buy the real box or use something else. Tsar-1, Sonsig Rev-A, and Megaverb so much better than the recreations to me. |
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Post by Dan on Jun 3, 2024 8:22:56 GMT -6
I used the PCM60 in my studio guitar rig for years. I eventually started using the verb in the AXE-FX for guitar, but I love everything I listen back to that I recorded with the PCM60 and hung onto it until last year. I don't miss it yet, but would be happy to use it again.
Sentimental perhaps, but the MPX 500 and MPX1 deserve their place in the sub $500 consideration. The MPX1 was my first proper hardware verb and a centerpiece to the new 1604 VLZ and Blackface ADAT in my home studio in 1998. PCMs were in vogue so neither got the love they are worthy of although more engineers were using the MPX1 than they talked about. I used to see them everywhere. For me it was joined by the Yamaha Rev 500. I kept that for 20 years. Another worthy sub $500 piece.
Most of these you can get for the price of a plugin ($150-$300)
Taking me back...Ha! I couldn't afford the MPX1 at the time, so I had the lowly Alex in my home studio, next to the Rev 7 hooked up to my 24x8. I would borrow my buddies MPX1 on mix days. Ha! I also recall a Quadraverb, I think a Digitech DSP 55, dbx and symetrix compressors... I didn't really get along with the REV or the Alex, just had to deal until I could upgrade. yeah but quadraverb Taj Mahal was the distinctive sound of so many records! |
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Jun 3, 2024 8:50:11 GMT -6
The best I heard was a little Sony. With today's computers, plug-ins are better than anything short of a real EMT 140 that is well tuned.
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Post by FM77 on Jun 3, 2024 9:18:31 GMT -6
The best I heard was a little Sony. With today's computers, plug-ins are better than anything short of a real EMT 140 that is well tuned. 'Better' is a tough nut to crack when defining creative tools and taste. Particularly era specific tools. A few things I love, count on and own simply can't be reproduced on the computer. |
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Post by Omicron9 on Jun 3, 2024 9:34:21 GMT -6
Lexicon MPX-1. The Kurzweil Rumor is also quite good.
-09
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Post by Dan on Jun 3, 2024 9:43:57 GMT -6
The best I heard was a little Sony. With today's computers, plug-ins are better than anything short of a real EMT 140 that is well tuned. Yeah but you can make them sound bad while these old reverbs couldn’t be realistic so they had to sound good or cool. See the PCM 60,70, Midiverbs, SPX 90, Lexicon Random Hall, etc. the problem is as an audible verb or trying to created a realistic space, it sounds incredibly artificial so what are remembered are things that were special fx, eg chorused lex verbs like vangelis, random hall, midiverb bloom, spx 90 reverse and what that thing did to snares, quadraverb Taj Mahal, eventide black hole, etc If you go back and listen to late 80s and early 90s pop records, the lexicon and ams verbs stick out like sore thumbs, just like Valhalla vintage verb does today. The newer algorithms in vvv like palace are better but they’re not the sound of bad pop and rap and not good enough to make me PayPal 50 bucks to get it out of demo mode. Megaverb is what the lofi clients tend to like anyway. |
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Post by thehightenor on Jun 3, 2024 10:19:17 GMT -6
The best I heard was a little Sony. With today's computers, plug-ins are better than anything short of a real EMT 140 that is well tuned. I used to own an Ibanez SDR 1000+ It was quite a sophisticated reverb unit. It was a badged up Sony MU-R201. |
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Post by Blackdawg on Jun 3, 2024 11:49:45 GMT -6
I dig the SPX90II as well. I got a super super clean ones for like 115 just before Covid. They are fun and the 12bit AD/DA in them is full of character. The delays are great. Shame there isn't better MIDI control of it. I'd bet someone could have come up with a MIDI control plugin for it.
The other hardware reverb that I've always found interesting is the Meris mercury 7. Which I think you can find for under 500 but it's a 500 series card and you'd need 2 for stereo. But very cool sounding in demos.
But another options is guitar pedals. Strymoms Big Sky seems like it'd be a great unit to have for mixing even.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,086 
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Post by ericn on Jun 3, 2024 12:29:15 GMT -6
If I put a hard $500 limit on a used hardware digital efx today I would probably grab a Eventide H9.
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Post by teejay on Jun 3, 2024 12:44:24 GMT -6
Alesis Midiverb 4 for live
TC Electronics M-One XL when tracking
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Post by seawell on Jun 3, 2024 12:49:13 GMT -6
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Post by bossanova on Jun 3, 2024 15:53:12 GMT -6
Yeah, more than $500 but PCM70. The sound quality is better than my UA 480L plugin although noisier. Noise ain't no thang and can be dealt with these days. Yep and the algorithms were tuned for the old converters and primitive fixed point dsps. The ported algorithms to modern cpus don’t sound as good as the pcm 60 and 70, they would have to be tweaked or coded to have the same spatial effects or so that the modern cpu runs the algorithms with the noise and distortion of the primitive dsp chips. The algorithm ports (UAD Lexicon, UAD and PSP EMT. PSP Lexicon delays), convolutions (wave alchemy and bettermaker) and black box recreations (ddmf emt, relab, etc) don’t seem to bother and want a lot of money when you can just get something new. Yeah the SP2016 or 2445 on fire sale is cool but none of the recreations will give you the dark 80s movie dialogue sound or the exact every ballad ever random hall and they want to charge you a couple hundred bucks to not give you what you want. My view is buy the real box or use something else. Tsar-1, Sonsig Rev-A, and Megaverb so much better than the recreations to me. Can you give an example of the dark 80s movie dialogue sound? I love that kind of thing. |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jun 3, 2024 18:56:14 GMT -6
I had the Midiverb, The Yamaha and a few others back in the day. Gritty and shitty, I'm sorry to say. I'd go with any Lexicon over them any day. Many of the used basic models are cheap, but I haven't tried one.
If I was buying, I'd get either the PCM 70 or the Eventide H9 Max pedal and use it as a hardware reverb.
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Post by ragan on Jun 3, 2024 21:17:45 GMT -6
Yeah, more than $500 but PCM70. The sound quality is better than my UA 480L plugin although noisier. Noise ain't no thang and can be dealt with these days. Yep and the algorithms were tuned for the old converters and primitive fixed point dsps. The ported algorithms to modern cpus don’t sound as good as the pcm 60 and 70, they would have to be tweaked or coded to have the same spatial effects or so that the modern cpu runs the algorithms with the noise and distortion of the primitive dsp chips. The algorithm ports (UAD Lexicon, UAD and PSP EMT. PSP Lexicon delays), convolutions (wave alchemy and bettermaker) and black box recreations (ddmf emt, relab, etc) don’t seem to bother and want a lot of money when you can just get something new. Yeah the SP2016 or 2445 on fire sale is cool but none of the recreations will give you the dark 80s movie dialogue sound or the exact every ballad ever random hall and they want to charge you a couple hundred bucks to not give you what you want. My view is buy the real box or use something else. Tsar-1, Sonsig Rev-A, and Megaverb so much better than the recreations to me. Your mentions of TSAR-1 got me curious to give it a fresh listen. I've had it for a long time, but never really used it. I think I'm kind of on the same page as you on this one, I like the striking/different, often one trick pony reverb plugs. I also have a Quadraverb sitting in the rack that gives me a lot of nostalgia. |
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Post by geoff738 on Jun 3, 2024 22:02:34 GMT -6
I kinda like the Tsar 1.
But speaking of gritty and shitty I still have my Ensoniq DP4 from what, 1993? Gathering dust. Hasn’t been hooked up in at least a decade. I’m sure the caps are all dried out. I don’t know what to do with it. I hate just throwing stuff in the dumpster but assuming it still functions is it good for anything more than a doorstop?
Cheers,
Geoff
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Post by vvvooojjj on Jun 4, 2024 1:30:16 GMT -6
I kinda like the Tsar 1. But speaking of gritty and shitty I still have my Ensoniq DP4 from what, 1993? Gathering dust. Hasn’t been hooked up in at least a decade. I’m sure the caps are all dried out. I don’t know what to do with it. I hate just throwing stuff in the dumpster but assuming it still functions is it good for anything more than a doorstop? Cheers, Geoff You should sell it to a French House enthusiast. |
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