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Post by gravesnumber9 on May 29, 2024 21:45:25 GMT -6
In case you haven't seen it, they're taking their plugins and have built kind of a wrapper around them. You can make macro level tweaks for mastering and it shows you how the tweaks are being accomplished using the 16 plugins that the tool can manipulate. It's a sub model but rent-to-own. If you already own the plugins it's free. If you cancel the sub you keep what you own and can still use the wrapper (they call it Flow) and the macros. At the very minimum it's novel. www.softube.com/flow-mastering-suite |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on May 30, 2024 2:30:32 GMT -6
Fiddled around with this thing for a bit with some songs that I had already mastered on a little live in the studio trio thing. Here are a few thoughts...
1) The metering is great. The compression knobs show the db reduction right on the knob and the visualization graphs are sort of Fab Filter / Sonible / Ozone style. Everyone does it this way now it seems and so does Softube. Works well.
2) A bit of a learning curve for me since I don't use the Weiss plugins typically and these mastering chains seem to be very Weiss heavy. It's interesting because it forces me to rely more on the Macros being unfamiliar with the plugin parameters. They're not all that complicated but flying blind was actually pretty helpful, I think it helped me to use the product as intended which is to say... fast.
3) For me the Macros really helped to listen instead of watch. What I mean by that is that since they control multiple parameters, my brain seemed to operate more like it would when I'm using hardware. Just turn the knobs until it sounds good.
4) Following on that. The knobs are tuned for mastering. Maybe that's obvious but they didn't really highlight that in the marketing copy. That means you can really just grab them and move them around. In some cases, like with the Widener, they also seem to be non-linear. So you turn the widener up 3/4 and you're getting 15% widening or so, turn it up the remaining 1/4 and it jumps to 50%. Just grab the knobs and move them around.
5) The little tool tips on how to use the Macros are legitimately helpful. None if it is rocket science if you've done this stuff before, but the labeling of the Macros, while intuitive, still benefits from some explanation of how you're expected to use them.
Overall the thing sounds good which it should considering these are all battle tested and well proven plugins. From a software perspective there's really nothing to not like. Worst case scenario you've got some plugin chains that are laid out in a more accessible way than they are in Logic, Studio One, or Reaper. I think this is kind of how Ableton does it actually but I could be mixing that up with something else.
Best case scenario?
Well, it SEEMS like this could allow me to work really fast. It's hard to say since I was testing out stuff I've already mastered. So I was able to get Flow to at least match what I did with a combination of Ozone, UAD, PA, and other Plugins and I might have even beaten my previous masters (or maybe just different, who knows). But since I don't remember how long it took me to get this stuff sounding good without Flow, I can't say if it's really faster or not.
So... it's a MAYBE buy for me. I'll have to try it on a project that I haven't worked on yet. The value here is speed. If it's not faster, I don't need it because I already have other similar plugins as we all do. But if it's faster (and it seems like it MIGHT be wayyyy faster), then it's worth $15/month to me.
I probably spend an hour or two per week doing vanity/artist mastering jobs if you add it all up and a few more hours per month "mastering" my own stuff for socials and streaming. This might knock that down to an hour or two per month total. For a pro engineer who also has a family, a day job, and a full time performing gig... $15 is a bargain if I get four or five hours back.
Oh yeah... plus it's fun.
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Post by kcatthedog on May 30, 2024 3:57:09 GMT -6
Interesting, thx, but if you don’t have the ST plugs , you either rent by sub or buy.
Buying a whole bunch more plugs just to use hub for me is a non starter.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on May 30, 2024 8:58:02 GMT -6
Interesting, thx, but if you don’t have the ST plugs , you either rent by sub or buy. Buying a whole bunch more plugs just to use hub for me is a non starter. Yes it's $15/month for the sub. |
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Post by Ward on May 30, 2024 9:30:23 GMT -6
Interesting, thx, but if you don’t have the ST plugs , you either rent by sub or buy. Buying a whole bunch more plugs just to use hub for me is a non starter. Yes it's $15/month for the sub. Not a fan of the rental programs. $180 a year for the privilege of using someone else's software innit? Not even rent-to-own? |
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Post by kcatthedog on May 30, 2024 9:40:39 GMT -6
Interesting, thx, but if you don’t have the ST plugs , you either rent by sub or buy. Buying a whole bunch more plugs just to use hub for me is a non starter. Yes it's $15/month for the sub. $180 annually usd over $200 cdn, I’ll never sub. |
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Post by kcatthedog on May 30, 2024 9:41:51 GMT -6
Yes it's $15/month for the sub. Not a fan of the rental programs. $180 a year for the privilege of using someone else's software innit? Not even rent-to-own? It’s supposed to be rent to own ? |
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Post by Ward on May 30, 2024 9:46:53 GMT -6
Is it really?
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Post by Dan on May 30, 2024 10:14:02 GMT -6
Junk subscription service to sell plugs meant for amp sims mostly wholly unsuitable for real mastering work. Why not just buy the Weiss bundle directly or use something cleaner than it as a limiter? Like well… Fabfilter (the limiter can be cleaner), Tokyo Dawn, PSP Xenon and Ursa Boost as maximizers, Invisible Limiter or Boost for getting stuff stupid loud, etc.
I like Softube but their plugs have crazy phase shift from minimum phase anti alias filters and if you upsample them to 176.4 or 192 kHz with reaper or metaplugin to avoid those, they distort more than just taking the phase shift.
They’re mostly not utilitarian professional tools like Sonnox, Fabfilter, Tokyo Dawn, or Izotope.
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Post by mcirish on May 30, 2024 10:15:00 GMT -6
I was curious about this. I own almost every one of the plugins already. Having them in some common GUI might be interesting and help speed up some things. But... I will never pay subscriptions for plugins. It's crazy. If I don't pay the subscription, I can no longer open older projects? That's a complete no-go for me.
Maybe I'm not understanding it but it seems like you will always be paying the subscription to use the Flow shell, even after you own all the plugins. If that's really true, it's a hard pass.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on May 30, 2024 10:23:04 GMT -6
I was curious about this. I own almost every one of the plugins already. Having them in some common GUI might be interesting and help speed up some things. But... I will never pay subscriptions for plugins. It's crazy. If I don't pay the subscription, I can no longer open older projects? That's a complete no-go for me. Maybe I'm not understanding it but it seems like you will always be paying the subscription to use the Flow shell, even after you own all the plugins. If that's really true, it's a hard pass. Yeah I think you're misreading it. The subscription is just for the plugins, the Flow shell is free. If you own the plugins now you don't even need the subscription, you'll just subscribe and then cancel. So the deal is that when you cancel you can still use "Flows" but the plugins that you don't own won't work obviously. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on May 30, 2024 10:29:41 GMT -6
Junk subscription service to sell plugs meant for amp sims mostly wholly unsuitable for real mastering work. Why not just buy the Weiss bundle directly or use something cleaner than it as a limiter? Like well… Fabfilter (the limiter can be cleaner), Tokyo Dawn, PSP Xenon and Ursa Boost as maximizers, Invisible Limiter or Boost for getting stuff stupid loud, etc. I like Softube but their plugs have crazy phase shift from minimum phase anti alias filters and if you upsample them to 176.4 or 192 kHz with reaper or metaplugin to avoid those, they distort more than just taking the phase shift. They’re mostly not utilitarian professional tools like Sonnox, Fabfilter, Tokyo Dawn, or Izotope. Subscription service aside (don't want to get into that debate) what I currently do is exactly what you're describing. I have a few chains of mostly Isotope and TDR stuff. The reason for something like this would be ease of use. The layout and macros make it really fast to dial sounds in. At least I think they do, as I said in my initial post I'm not actually sure if it's faster or not because I tested it on material that I had already mastered so that's not really a fair comparison. I already knew what would work mostly. Two questions though... 1) Aren't the SoftTube Weiss plugins generally well thought of? I've never owned any of those though I've got some other Softube plugs that work well. 2) What would I be listening for to identify phase shift, a shift in the stereo image? What would be an easy way to test this so that I can hear what's happening for myself? |
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Post by Dan on May 30, 2024 10:36:47 GMT -6
Junk subscription service to sell plugs meant for amp sims mostly wholly unsuitable for real mastering work. Why not just buy the Weiss bundle directly or use something cleaner than it as a limiter? Like well… Fabfilter (the limiter can be cleaner), Tokyo Dawn, PSP Xenon and Ursa Boost as maximizers, Invisible Limiter or Boost for getting stuff stupid loud, etc. I like Softube but their plugs have crazy phase shift from minimum phase anti alias filters and if you upsample them to 176.4 or 192 kHz with reaper or metaplugin to avoid those, they distort more than just taking the phase shift. They’re mostly not utilitarian professional tools like Sonnox, Fabfilter, Tokyo Dawn, or Izotope. Subscription service aside (don't want to get into that debate) what I currently do is exactly what you're describing. I have a few chains of mostly Isotope and TDR stuff. The reason for something like this would be ease of use. The layout and macros make it really fast to dial sounds in. At least I think they do, as I said in my initial post I'm not actually sure if it's faster or not because I tested it on material that I had already mastered so that's not really a fair comparison. I already knew what would work mostly. Two questions though... 1) Aren't the SoftTube Weiss plugins generally well thought of? I've never owned any of those though I've got some other Softube plugs that work well. 2) What would I be listening for to identify phase shift, a shift in the stereo image? What would be an easy way to test this so that I can hear what's happening for myself? The Weiss plugs are really good. That’s about it for their mastering plugs. The dynamics have a sound in them though. Run a real drum kit through the other plugs like the chandlers and hear the cymbal bleed change and sometimes shift around in the stereo image. Same with the clipper, widener etc even when doing nothing. You can also use fizzy guitars and synths and reverb sends and hear them get phase shifted even if you cannot Hear that high. That Dan worral video apologizing for this behavior was hilarious. Like yeh it keeps them lower latency at 44.1 and 48 kHz for amp sim guys and stuff like The chandler germanium snd overstayer and channel strips sound cool on samples devoid of any ambience and drum machines but for real recordings with room mics, lol why? Why not just use something that messes with them less? |
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Post by kcatthedog on May 30, 2024 11:34:37 GMT -6
I was curious about this. I own almost every one of the plugins already. Having them in some common GUI might be interesting and help speed up some things. But... I will never pay subscriptions for plugins. It's crazy. If I don't pay the subscription, I can no longer open older projects? That's a complete no-go for me. Maybe I'm not understanding it but it seems like you will always be paying the subscription to use the Flow shell, even after you own all the plugins. If that's really true, it's a hard pass. You should get an email with some kind of discount based on the plugs you own. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on May 30, 2024 11:37:06 GMT -6
Subscription service aside (don't want to get into that debate) what I currently do is exactly what you're describing. I have a few chains of mostly Isotope and TDR stuff. The reason for something like this would be ease of use. The layout and macros make it really fast to dial sounds in. At least I think they do, as I said in my initial post I'm not actually sure if it's faster or not because I tested it on material that I had already mastered so that's not really a fair comparison. I already knew what would work mostly. Two questions though... 1) Aren't the SoftTube Weiss plugins generally well thought of? I've never owned any of those though I've got some other Softube plugs that work well. 2) What would I be listening for to identify phase shift, a shift in the stereo image? What would be an easy way to test this so that I can hear what's happening for myself? The Weiss plugs are really good. That’s about it for their mastering plugs. The dynamics have a sound in them though. Run a real drum kit through the other plugs like the chandlers and hear the cymbal bleed change and sometimes shift around in the stereo image. Same with the clipper, widener etc even when doing nothing. You can also use fizzy guitars and synths and reverb sends and hear them get phase shifted even if you cannot Hear that high. That Dan worral video apologizing for this behavior was hilarious. Like yeh it keeps them lower latency at 44.1 and 48 kHz for amp sim guys and stuff like The chandler germanium snd overstayer and channel strips sound cool on samples devoid of any ambience and drum machines but for real recordings with room mics, lol why? Why not just use something that messes with them less? Ok perfect. I do all real drums and a do a lot of controlled bleed so this is relevant to me. This is good timing because watching those TDR videos last night made me wonder if I should be paying more attention to phase shift in my HPF. Worrall demonstrated the shift in stereo field in a low frequency sine wave and I thought... oh crap, my stuff must be moving around all the time. That said, in his example the signal moved into the left channel. Isn't this basically how widening plugins work? Or the Goodhertz Pan plugin on phase mode? So maybe the key is to learn how to use it. Getting off topic though... I'll do this test with a multi-miked kit and listen for the Softube plugs. |
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Post by kcatthedog on May 31, 2024 17:59:22 GMT -6
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Post by kcatthedog on May 31, 2024 18:14:01 GMT -6
Not a fan of sub plans, but he mentions you have access to all the included plug ins, in the mastering chain or stand alone, for under $15 monthly, that is appealing .
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