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Post by thehightenor on Jun 2, 2024 1:35:00 GMT -6
Welp... I took the tracks I was spreading among 8 stereo pairs and condensing them to 4 stereo pairs. Then I doubled those. And yeah, kissing the red on the Orbit and it sounds really good. Exactly like what I remember from when I heard the unit at my buddy's studio. Ok, so that's kinda of annoying actually. I was sorta hoping it wouldn't make a difference or it would suck. The good news is, this technique will work. Now the question is, is there any benefit to going back to spreading the mix across 8 stereo tracks and running it through something like the Ferrofish? My guess is no. Only got the Ferrofish last week but I now have it up and running along side my Crane Song Avocet and HEDD 192 (ATC 25 monitoring) and all I can say is wow - they are great sounding converters - very clean and precise! Beautiful build quality too  I’d imagine the +24db option would be a great solution. |
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Post by spacecowboy on Jun 2, 2024 12:23:17 GMT -6
Welp... I took the tracks I was spreading among 8 stereo pairs and condensing them to 4 stereo pairs. Then I doubled those. And yeah, kissing the red on the Orbit and it sounds really good. Exactly like what I remember from when I heard the unit at my buddy's studio. Ok, so that's kinda of annoying actually. I was sorta hoping it wouldn't make a difference or it would suck. The good news is, this technique will work. Now the question is, is there any benefit to going back to spreading the mix across 8 stereo tracks and running it through something like the Ferrofish? My guess is no. Why not buy some 1:2 transformers and patch them in between your DA and the 5057? The input impedance of the 5057 is high enough that the DA probably won’t crap out with a 1:2 step up. You get 6 dB and probably some tone on top. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Jun 2, 2024 14:40:44 GMT -6
Welp... I took the tracks I was spreading among 8 stereo pairs and condensing them to 4 stereo pairs. Then I doubled those. And yeah, kissing the red on the Orbit and it sounds really good. Exactly like what I remember from when I heard the unit at my buddy's studio. Ok, so that's kinda of annoying actually. I was sorta hoping it wouldn't make a difference or it would suck. The good news is, this technique will work. Now the question is, is there any benefit to going back to spreading the mix across 8 stereo tracks and running it through something like the Ferrofish? My guess is no. Why not buy some 1:2 transformers and patch them in between your DA and the 5057? The input impedance of the 5057 is high enough that the DA probably won’t crap out with a 1:2 step up. You get 6 dB and probably some tone on top. Great idea for someone with a modicum of electronic assembly skills.  (Not there yet.) |
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Post by spacecowboy on Jun 2, 2024 16:01:51 GMT -6
You really don’t need assembly skills at all. It’s just two wires in, two wires out. Couldn’t be simpler!
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Jun 2, 2024 16:34:14 GMT -6
You really don’t need assembly skills at all. It’s just two wires in, two wires out. Couldn’t be simpler! Taking a look at SUT and I don't think I'm seeing the type of thing you're talking about. I see standalone parts for HiFi systems (expensive) and also just transformers that look to be designed to be part of more complex casing and housing. I'm assuming you're talking about the latter? |
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Post by the other mark williams on Jun 2, 2024 17:23:58 GMT -6
You really don’t need assembly skills at all. It’s just two wires in, two wires out. Couldn’t be simpler! Sure it could! Those two wires could already be connected to a 1/4" jack! That would certainly be easier for me... |
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Post by spacecowboy on Jun 2, 2024 19:52:20 GMT -6
You really don’t need assembly skills at all. It’s just two wires in, two wires out. Couldn’t be simpler! Taking a look at SUT and I don't think I'm seeing the type of thing you're talking about. I see standalone parts for HiFi systems (expensive) and also just transformers that look to be designed to be part of more complex casing and housing. I'm assuming you're talking about the latter? Yeah - you could buy a CMOQ2S from Cinemag, they’re around $30 each. Send the output into brown and red, parallel with orange and yellow (so connect brown and orange to pin 2, red and yellow to pin 3). Take the output from green and gray, and connect blue and violet together. Green goes to pin 2 out, gray to pin 3. Thats a 1:2 output. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Jun 3, 2024 16:53:35 GMT -6
Taking a look at SUT and I don't think I'm seeing the type of thing you're talking about. I see standalone parts for HiFi systems (expensive) and also just transformers that look to be designed to be part of more complex casing and housing. I'm assuming you're talking about the latter? Yeah - you could buy a CMOQ2S from Cinemag, they’re around $30 each. Send the output into brown and red, parallel with orange and yellow (so connect brown and orange to pin 2, red and yellow to pin 3). Take the output from green and gray, and connect blue and violet together. Green goes to pin 2 out, gray to pin 3. Thats a 1:2 output. I like the idea of a project, but the parts alone would be around $500 since I'd need 16 of these. Plus some sort of chassis to hold it all, right? |
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Post by spacecowboy on Jun 3, 2024 17:18:48 GMT -6
Yep, but it is easy to get one transformer to try and see if it works well. No case required for that.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Jun 7, 2024 11:50:23 GMT -6
Starting to feel like the juice isn't worth the squeeze after two years with the Orbit. I don't know. It sounds great when you push it but it's so hard to push it with my setup that it's a distracting amount of effort. Maybe it would be different if I was running a rig that could easily output the needed volumes. I do like what the Silk does but not for the effort. It's not even the money for a premium unit, it's amount of time I'm spending figuring out how to maximize its value.
No decision yet... I still might just pick up the Ferrofish. But I have a sneaking suspicion that I'll be posting a "what should I buy with the $2k I just got selling my Orbit?"
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Post by EmRR on Jun 7, 2024 13:31:32 GMT -6
Sorry dudes. Transformer saturation doesn’t limit peaks until it’s completely nasty, there is no subtle or tasteful version of that.
Transformers saturate first at the lowest frequency. Your transient is at 1K? Forget it, ain’t gonna happen. Something else around it might be clipping, but it ain’t got nothing to do with the transformer unless it’s a $0.50 POS pulled out of an old telephone.
20Hz clipping +20dBm (600 ohm reference)
40Hz clipping +26
80Hz clipping +32 (1.58W)
160Hz clipping +38
——- we’re passing 10 WATTS here folks; 2+ dimed Fender Champs!—-yeah, I know, 10W into 4 ohms ain’t the same but it should paint the picture——
320Hz clipping +44 (25 watts)
640Hz clipping +50 (100 watts)
Yeah, saturation at 40Hz will create 3rd harmonics (120hz) that warp all else above, but it’s not gonna do any level control on higher stuff.
The whole transformer distortion thing is only a subtle thing about low frequencies; that’s it. If the transformer is prone to ringing effects from loading, it may even increase transients.
CMOQ2 = +22 @ 20Hz…..and I don’t like the way they sound, what they do to the bottom end. I took them out of a couple things.
Hey, I’m clearly all in for transformers, always a ton in my chain, but it’s a subtle building effect with no shortcuts. The ones that obviously sound like something are high ratio, not low ratio.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Jun 7, 2024 13:53:05 GMT -6
Sorry dudes. Transformer saturation doesn’t limit peaks until it’s completely nasty, there is no subtle or tasteful version of that. Transformers saturate first at the lowest frequency. Your transient is at 1K? Forget it, ain’t gonna happen. Something else around it might be clipping, but it ain’t got nothing to do with the transformer unless it’s a $0.50 POS pulled out of an old telephone. 20Hz clipping +20dBm (600 ohm reference) 40Hz clipping +26 80Hz clipping +32 (1.58W) 160Hz clipping +38 ——- we’re passing 10 WATTS here folks; 2+ dimed Fender Champs!—-yeah, I know, 10W into 4 ohms ain’t the same but it should paint the picture—— 320Hz clipping +44 (25 watts) 640Hz clipping +50 (100 watts) Yeah, saturation at 40Hz will create 3rd harmonics (120hz) that warp all else above, but it’s not gonna do any level control on higher stuff. The whole transformer distortion thing is only a subtle thing about low frequencies; that’s it. If the transformer is prone to ringing effects from loading, it may even increase transients. CMOQ2 = +22 @ 20Hz…..and I don’t like the way they sound, what they do to the bottom end. I took them out of a couple things. Hey, I’m clearly all in for transformers, always a ton in my chain, but it’s a subtle building effect with no shortcuts. The ones that obviously sound like something are high ratio, not low ratio. Took a mix I'm just about finished with, bounced it through the chain I've been using. Then I duplicated the mix, did summing ITB using S1 Neve fake console thing, and used Pipeline (S1's plugin i/o) to replicate my two bus chain. I brought the the pre-amps up just a bit in the SB as well to match as close as I could. Sounded... the same? Possibly even a bit better due to S1's Neve sim artificially widening the soundstage a bit. Or better because SB can do its thing without having to stay out of the way for Orbit? OR Maybe because I was able to use the Cranborne ADAT 500 to do my D/A conversion instead of the MOTU 24AO? I mean, it's marginal but it's certainly not worse. Either way... it's WAY easier so it looks like I'm about to post the thread titled "probably selling my Orbit, what should I replace it with?" Dan - I already know what you're doing to say. I said "MAYBE" better because of the conversion. |
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