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Post by theshea on May 11, 2024 6:26:30 GMT -6
i am on logic for over 15 years and i keep hearing transients not beeing as tight as possible come mixing time. and timing with real recorded drums with lots of tracks do not always seem to be where they are supposed to be. so i find myself nudging back or forth tracks a lot. testing luna from time to time and it seems tighter and cleaner.
it was way worse in the past logic‘s versions but still i am not shure if it works alright.
so from your experience: which DAW is the best doing plugin delay compensation?
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Post by Johnkenn on May 11, 2024 8:50:09 GMT -6
Cubase seems to be pretty tight all around. Pro Tools Ultimate is probably unfortunately the answer though.
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Post by drbill on May 11, 2024 9:05:46 GMT -6
Pro Tools HDX Ultimate. I don't know if it's "the best", but I have never thought about delay compensation other than to just "turn it on" for well over a decade.....
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Post by ragan on May 11, 2024 9:35:08 GMT -6
Delay comp shouldn't be any better on HDX than native, right? This is a different issue than how much latency the artist hears while tracking (which is obvs where HDX shines). Delay comp is a simple matter of the DAW knowing how many samples of delay were present while a given track was being recorded, and nudging it accordingly. Should be dead simple and consistent across DAWs.
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Post by theshea on May 11, 2024 9:57:51 GMT -6
Delay comp shouldn't be any better on HDX than native, right? This is a different issue than how much latency the artist hears while tracking (which is obvs where HDX shines). Delay comp is a simple matter of the DAW knowing how many samples of delay were present while a given track was being recorded, and nudging it accordingly. Should be dead simple and consistent across DAWs. yeah it should be in 2024 but still … my drummer is always hearing some timing issues in logics and always wants things to be nudged. it could be a drummer diseases hahah but me too, i sometimes got the feeling that logic swims a bit around. eg: after recording and editing everything sounds ight and right. same tracks after mixing not so. a bit off. could be obviously also some other stuff like predekays in reverbs, compression with attack and release times etc. but luna always seems tighter. |
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Post by notneeson on May 11, 2024 10:00:19 GMT -6
Delay comp shouldn't be any better on HDX than native, right? This is a different issue than how much latency the artist hears while tracking (which is obvs where HDX shines). Delay comp is a simple matter of the DAW knowing how many samples of delay were present while a given track was being recorded, and nudging it accordingly. Should be dead simple and consistent across DAWs. yeah it should be in 2024 but still … my drummer is always hearing some timing issues in logics and always wants things to be nudged. it could be a drummer diseases hahah but me too, i sometimes got the feeling that logic swims a bit around. eg: after recording and editing everything sounds ight and right. same tracks after mixing not so. a bit off. could be obviously also some other stuff like predekays in reverbs, compression with attack and release times etc. but luna always seems tighter. In a mix? Or during tracking? |
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Post by svart on May 11, 2024 10:25:34 GMT -6
Ok, I might be completely wrong, but delay compensation sees the delay on a plug-in and then offsets every OTHER track so that they're all equally delayed and therefore still in sync, right?
So yeah, if you had a plug with a really high delay (Soothe, melodyne, reverbs, etc) then yeah you'll always hear a delay.
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Post by theshea on May 12, 2024 1:08:02 GMT -6
yeah it should be in 2024 but still … my drummer is always hearing some timing issues in logics and always wants things to be nudged. it could be a drummer diseases hahah but me too, i sometimes got the feeling that logic swims a bit around. eg: after recording and editing everything sounds ight and right. same tracks after mixing not so. a bit off. could be obviously also some other stuff like predekays in reverbs, compression with attack and release times etc. but luna always seems tighter. In a mix? Or during tracking? when recording all is good. there are (almost) no plugins in my session. than i edit, all is good, all tight and in time. come mixing phase, with lots of plugins, it always seems to shift some tracks a tiny tiny bit out of time. bareley noticeable but the drummer always hears it and i too got the feeling something ain‘t right. but ok, could be us :-) |
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Post by Shadowk on May 12, 2024 5:39:00 GMT -6
In a mix? Or during tracking? when recording all is good. there are (almost) no plugins in my session. than i edit, all is good, all tight and in time. come mixing phase, with lots of plugins, it always seems to shift some tracks a tiny tiny bit out of time. bareley noticeable but the drummer always hears it and i too got the feeling something ain‘t right. but ok, could be us :-) On the purple site there’s a large thread on this subject, Apple have supposedly fixed it towards the latest releases though. I’ve heard that Cubase and Reaper don’t seem to have these issues. |
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Post by jaba on May 12, 2024 5:42:05 GMT -6
Cubase seems pretty tight over here (mixing).
I've used plugs and even hardware in parallel without any great issue.
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Post by mcirish on May 12, 2024 6:23:06 GMT -6
I'm in Nuendo. I never even think about delay compensation. It just works without a problem.
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Post by thirdeye on May 12, 2024 7:20:19 GMT -6
It's also possible that certain plugins are reporting their latency incorrectly to the DAW.
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Post by Dan on May 12, 2024 7:22:27 GMT -6
Cubase and Reaper.
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Post by EmRR on May 12, 2024 7:32:55 GMT -6
DP always seems fine. Only buggy timing is in their hardware insert plug, it doesn’t discover well and can lose settings between sessions. New feature, so still working it out I guess.
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Post by Dan on May 12, 2024 7:33:32 GMT -6
Also stop using plugins with minimum phase antialias filters from oversampling like all Softube except for the Weiss, Overloud, and U-he. Unless they are an effect that scrambles the phase anyway like an echo or tape, those are meant for guitar dis, samples, and vsti synths.
Dan
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Post by Tbone81 on May 12, 2024 8:53:04 GMT -6
Cubase is great but as of version 12 still has a bug where if you put a plug-in into bypass, the delay comp stops working and you get latency. The fix is to use the plugins built in by-pass (if it has one) or actually turn the plug-in power off.
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Post by drumsound on May 12, 2024 9:09:08 GMT -6
The only time I've had trouble in Pro Tools Studio (Native/not HD) was when using RX to deal with really cranked amp noise. I was working so hard that it turned into a slapback compared to the other guitar part and the band. I did a commit and moved on.
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Post by Shadowk on May 12, 2024 14:31:36 GMT -6
Delay comp shouldn't be any better on HDX than native, right? This is a different issue than how much latency the artist hears while tracking (which is obvs where HDX shines). Delay comp is a simple matter of the DAW knowing how many samples of delay were present while a given track was being recorded, and nudging it accordingly. Should be dead simple and consistent across DAWs. I'll let you know if this works in practice after I've tried everything I can with the HDX / Carbon hybrid engine. If not Cubase it is.. |
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Post by thehightenor on May 13, 2024 1:39:43 GMT -6
Cubase.
I've tried to break it with some crazy routing combinations.
Stayed absolutely perfect.
Pretty good coding for a native DAW.
It makes using HW inserts effortless.
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Post by ironinthepath on May 13, 2024 9:19:28 GMT -6
when recording all is good. there are (almost) no plugins in my session. than i edit, all is good, all tight and in time. come mixing phase, with lots of plugins, it always seems to shift some tracks a tiny tiny bit out of time. bareley noticeable but the drummer always hears it and i too got the feeling something ain‘t right. but ok, could be us :-) Time to try analog mixdown? |
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Post by theshea on May 13, 2024 9:31:33 GMT -6
when recording all is good. there are (almost) no plugins in my session. than i edit, all is good, all tight and in time. come mixing phase, with lots of plugins, it always seems to shift some tracks a tiny tiny bit out of time. bareley noticeable but the drummer always hears it and i too got the feeling something ain‘t right. but ok, could be us :-) Time to try analog mixdown? haha no way. i am not going down that rabbit hole :-) |
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Post by christopher on May 14, 2024 9:59:58 GMT -6
There’s a way to test this, I just forget.
Is it copy/paste the same clip to every track, then listen for phase shift? Maybe a 1kHz sine?
Kinda tricky if there’s processing that messes with it anyway 🤔
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