Best tricks to sit a vocal in the track rather than on top?

For me it comes down to getting the vocal compression just right for that particular track and carefully tweaking the reverb.

For verb I’ll use at least two different reverbs on vocals. One for a room sound, and then another set longer for a longer tail/more ambience. Tweaking the pre delay and/or sidechaining a compressor on the reverb to duck the ambience when the vocal is singing is what’s key (for me) in creating glue vs separation

This is my thoughts...

I often might use 4 different verbs.

I don't compress tracking my vocal anymore.... but at mix time I usually run UA Fairchild, Vocal Rider, EQ then any fader moves....

Plus before it even hits the UA Fairchild... I will have split the vocal into smaller clips if needed and adjusted clip gain on those words or phrases that need it.

I don't like getting compressor to do more than say 3dB of compression if I can avoid it by levelling the vocal manually as described....

here is my latest song gives you an idea of what that sounds like...


 


cheers

Wiz

Also more reverb in the vocal send to the room reverb aux

Wow, thanks all! Great tips, I will spend some time researching/trying each of these on the track I’m currently working on. Wiz, that’s a great track and mix, exactly what I’m talking about…the vocal sits into the song but is totally present at the same time, well done!

biggest thing is probably the tonality of the instrumental. second biggest thing is probably volume automation.

I think the vocal should sit before any plugs or reverbs are added. Eric mentioned mic and then I would add room and tracking chain, pre, comp etc.

If you track the band and vocals with same aesthetics and gear it will likely put everything in the same space so to say. Then its just a matter of levels. But at this point it should sit. If it doesn't, I personally have a hard time ever getting it in the right spot with any tricks. I am not a pt wizard or advanced engineer, so I have to get it right to start with or Im screwed.

Hey Wiz , what a top sound .
Cheers, Ross

Yes nuke them with something that will make them sit in the mix so you need it to speed up on peaks to smash them down and then slow down on the body to not pump it up. An 1176 cannot do 10 vu off without pumping up the body because it speeds up. It can do a few vu off and then you need another much slower compressor to Make it sit like a la2a but an la2a doesn’t release fast enough except in spot of gain reduction but if there are no peaks left to make it speed up, there is a ton of bad compression that needs a ton of fader rides to automate your way out of and maybe even expansion. The distortion of the distortion also overmodulates the signal and kills clarity which is sometimes cool but often just makes everything sound worse and the quality of so many popular music records is limited by the extreme vocal compression. Their voices were distorted pre going onto the tape or into the converter. No amount of mixing or mastering can make them realistic again. The production is just poor despite being radio hits.

The software 1176 cannot do jack because they cannot smack the peaks down.

You can use compressors that can speed up on peaks and slow down on the body now. There are so many that aren’t an 1176, la2a, dbx 160, or 10-30 thousand dollar Fairchild and have better control of the signal.

I don't have these troubles with the 1176 hardware OR the plugins.  I am doing pretty fast release and around 12:1 ratio usually though.

I track with compression, often do some (or sometimes a lot) of clip gain adjustments, and usually mix with more extreme compression than I tracked with. Then it's a matter of some tonal things in the vocal and in the rest of the tracks, and the final balance of the vocal to the track. With all the above things are making sense, one can literally decided to back off the vocal, or make it stick out, and it works either way.

I automate lead vocals word by word. It sounds tedious, but pays great dividends.

Unfortunately what I consider the best answer to the question is to spend the money on a CL1B or Retro 176, or at least Stam SA2A. I have so many good plug-in compressors, but in truth, nothing gets the vocal to sit like one of those compressors.

I hit the peaks on the way in with an 1176. Then clip gain and a number of ITB compressors. Lastly, and most importantly, I do a ton of automation. I find that automation is the difference between a great demo and a great release. I always view it as keeping something cool happening always. If the vocal drops out, some instrument comes up to take the lead. With that, the vocal will never sit alone on top of the mix. There's always a push and pull as different element come to the front.