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Post by copperx on May 3, 2024 23:48:59 GMT -6
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Post by Johnkenn on May 4, 2024 8:58:00 GMT -6
I could go read about it…but I don’t fully even understand what it is…just a multi effects processor?
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Post by Johnkenn on May 4, 2024 9:00:24 GMT -6
Love factory preset videos…cuz it’s just how Johnny would use it! Lol
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Post by Oneiro on May 4, 2024 9:09:58 GMT -6
I've always briefly messed around with these and I guess I don't get it. I could see why they were a big deal when they came out but now? I'll admit I haven't spent enough time.
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Post by veggieryan on May 4, 2024 9:47:47 GMT -6
The H3000 has a very specific sound quality that you can recognize in a lot of music since its release. It is particularly good at pitch shifting delays that give vocals and guitars a certain sound that is instantly familiar. For me it's a big part of the vocal sound of "Beach House" that I love for example. The digital conversion is part of the sound and the mkII tries to emulate that unlike the disappointing mkI plugin. Soundtoys Microshift tries to emulate the beloved preset 519 of these units and falls short to my ear. The original units are getting old and eventually will be hard to maintain so I was hoping somebody would make a decent plugin version. I look forward to comparing this to my hardware unit and hope it gets close.
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Post by maldenfilms on May 4, 2024 10:58:09 GMT -6
The H3000 has a very specific sound quality that you can recognize in a lot of music since its release. It is particularly good at pitch shifting delays that give vocals and guitars a certain sound that is instantly familiar. For me it's a big part of the vocal sound of "Beach House" that I love for example. The digital conversion is part of the sound and the mkII tries to emulate that unlike the disappointing mkI plugin. Soundtoys Microshift tries to emulate the beloved preset 519 of these units and falls short to my ear. The original units are getting old and eventually will be hard to maintain so I was hoping somebody would make a decent plugin version. I look forward to comparing this to my hardware unit and hope it gets close. It’s a big part of a lot of the (indie) music I’m a fan of, including Beach House, Animal Collective, and many of my other favorites. I had the mk1 plugin but never used it since it didn’t have that darker, grittier vibe to it. This mk2 version rules! It’s definitely the kind of thing where I wouldn’t have the patience to tweak the parameters to death, but it has a ton of the original HW presets to start with (along with a bunch of others), so I’m sure I’ll have a lot of fun with it. |
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Post by Dan on May 4, 2024 11:47:57 GMT -6
Modern CPUs cannot perform the math like the original primitive fixed point processors so it will sound different when abed. It’s not a floating point SHARC chip, the 80s stuff used primitive fixed point dsp chips with tons of noise and truncation.
I don’t see why Eventide doesn’t just make new stuff? Their newer 9000 fx sound phenomenal
Then for the floating point dsp ports, you have the guys claiming UAD native and Softube Weiss sound different when they were going through nasty TotalMix cards to get the Weiss, truncating, and their older daws had problems synching the external UAD and Weiss dsp which is all latent from oversampling fir filters. Modern CPUs have 64-bit double precision floats as opposed to the SHARC’s 40-bit too.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,086 
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Post by ericn on May 4, 2024 13:20:09 GMT -6
Love factory preset videos…cuz it’s just how Johnny would use it! Lol Everything Dan says is true the original didn’t quite nail the H3000 sound, but damn if it wasn’t 1000 times easier to program! |
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Post by viciousbliss on May 4, 2024 15:28:01 GMT -6
I've found a few presets in the original plugin that work quite well. Barry's Stereo Spread being a particular favorite. Mainly for backing vocals.
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Post by copperx on May 4, 2024 18:52:11 GMT -6
After messing with it and reading beyond the marketing claims, MKII is just a GUI upgrade and converter emulation. MK II is just as limited as Mk I. Unfortunately, they have not ported the code of the original. They have recreated some presets of the original by ear. That's it.
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Post by veggieryan on May 4, 2024 20:50:54 GMT -6
I wonder what it would take to make a good H3000 plugin. Is it even possible to code an emulator for those old DSP chips???
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Post by copperx on May 4, 2024 23:20:53 GMT -6
I wonder what it would take to make a good H3000 plugin. Is it even possible to code an emulator for those old DSP chips???
If I remember correctly, an Eventide rep/tech lead (?) said on the purple forum that they have the source code for the thing, but he said that his engineers are more interested in creating new effects and aren't too excited about doing software archeology. That's what I remember; I can't find the post. That's why I thought they had done it.
Perhaps eventually.
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Post by smashlord on May 5, 2024 9:10:52 GMT -6
The H3000 has a very specific sound quality that you can recognize in a lot of music since its release. It is particularly good at pitch shifting delays that give vocals and guitars a certain sound that is instantly familiar. For me it's a big part of the vocal sound of "Beach House" that I love for example. The digital conversion is part of the sound and the mkII tries to emulate that unlike the disappointing mkI plugin. Soundtoys Microshift tries to emulate the beloved preset 519 of these units and falls short to my ear. The original units are getting old and eventually will be hard to maintain so I was hoping somebody would make a decent plugin version. I look forward to comparing this to my hardware unit and hope it gets close. One of the rooms I work out of regularly has one and for years I never patched into it, assuming Microshift did the job well enough.... boy was I wrong! The first time I sent a vocal to it, it was like "OHHHHHHHHH... I get it. That's THAT sound." |
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Post by ragan on May 5, 2024 10:12:40 GMT -6
I have one of these plugs. I guess it’s the MKI? I have always really dug it for delay and modulation. It has a distinct liquid kind of sonic footprint that my ear recognizes immediately from lots of classic tracks.
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Post by veggieryan on May 5, 2024 12:09:30 GMT -6
The H3000 has a very specific sound quality that you can recognize in a lot of music since its release. It is particularly good at pitch shifting delays that give vocals and guitars a certain sound that is instantly familiar. For me it's a big part of the vocal sound of "Beach House" that I love for example. The digital conversion is part of the sound and the mkII tries to emulate that unlike the disappointing mkI plugin. Soundtoys Microshift tries to emulate the beloved preset 519 of these units and falls short to my ear. The original units are getting old and eventually will be hard to maintain so I was hoping somebody would make a decent plugin version. I look forward to comparing this to my hardware unit and hope it gets close. One of the rooms I work out of regularly has one and for years I never patched into it, assuming Microshift did the job well enough.... boy was I wrong! The first time I sent a vocal to it, it was like "OHHHHHHHHH... I get it. That's THAT sound." Yes, that is my exact experience with the real thing, it sounds larger than life. First time I heard my voice through it was a realization for sure. No plugin is going to touch it I am afraid. |
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Post by jaba on May 5, 2024 12:20:37 GMT -6
I'm confused why so many old digital effect units can't be replicated in a modern plug. They'd have to mimic the hardware in/outs and conversion but other than that....
Doesn't my phone, let alone a modern computer, have more processing power than a digital device from the 80s? Couldn't they include limitations and quirks in a recreation?
I'm far from an expert on digital so maybe there's a obvious reason. Maybe the original code is lost? But couldn't the data on a (for example) 224 chip be extracted/copied?
Genuinely curious.
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Post by mike on May 5, 2024 13:13:59 GMT -6
It's been years now since I had the hardware, but my memory of how the unit did micro pitch shift/delay to double vocals for both width and size with its own unique sonics is it what set it apart for me back in the day.
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Post by veggieryan on May 5, 2024 13:18:41 GMT -6
Dan commented earlier: “ It’s not a floating point SHARC chip, the 80s stuff used primitive fixed point dsp chips with tons of noise and truncation.” Probably that noise and truncation is a big part of the sound. In order to get a better plugin one strategy would be to build emulators for those old DSP chips. I don’t know how feasible that is. I did find an open source project emulating the fixed point Motorola DSP56300 chip to emulate some old music gear so perhaps that is a path forward: dsp56300.wordpress.com/ostirus-downloads/Also it seems that Eventide has indicated they are not interested in recreating their past units. That seems not so accurate as they have H3000 presets/plugins even on the H9000. Probably they don’t want to spend the time to do it the hard/right way. Hopefully someone is reading this and has the skill to pull it off. I have been bugging UAD for years to do an H3000 plugin but not sure it could run on a single SHARC. Perhaps now that they are native focused they could pull it off? Would Eventide even allow it? |
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Post by jaba on May 5, 2024 14:22:00 GMT -6
Again, I know nothing about DSP programming/ CPU chips/ etc but I'm surprised they can't model that stuff.
What today's prosumer programs can do is scary so I'm surprised that it seems impossible to create an effects patch that emulates "primitive fixed point chips with noise and truncation".
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Post by christopher on May 5, 2024 15:22:52 GMT -6
Knowing nothing as well, just speculating. In the 80’s as a kid I learned a little about coding. A few years of playing around with early Apple PCs and etc. Recently I’ve tried to learn to code and it’s incredibly different, almost nothing at all is in common. The current coding are closer to say a Logic producer, wherethe tools are built out, start with legos and copy/paste fit it together and tweak it to finish. The old coding I knew would be sort of like starting with wire and soldering in each circuit as needed. Does that make sense? I think that’s part the problem. But I don’t know.
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Post by Dan on May 5, 2024 16:26:24 GMT -6
Knowing nothing as well, just speculating. In the 80’s as a kid I learned a little about coding. A few years of playing around with early Apple PCs and etc. Recently I’ve tried to learn to code and it’s incredibly different, almost nothing at all is in common. The current coding are closer to say a Logic producer, wherethe tools are built out, start with legos and copy/paste fit it together and tweak it to finish. The old coding I knew would be sort of like starting with wire and soldering in each circuit as needed. Does that make sense? I think that’s part the problem. But I don’t know. Almost all current plugins are written in C++. Some developers recycle their own algorithms and use textbook code but the better ones do not. The main bloat is from guis and encryption.. |
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,086
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Post by ericn on May 5, 2024 18:18:47 GMT -6
The Eventides was our pitch correction for years try it sounds awesome but a hell of a lot of work.
The sound of any old school digital box is as much about the Analog stage, Converters’, processing format and the tricks they did in the programming to overcome the limitations of the processing chips and conversion. So a true duplicate port if possible is not going to sound like an H3K. Honestly I have always wondered why a Company like lexicon didn’t try to sell a specialized dedicated AD/ DA box that sounds like the real box.
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Post by notneeson on May 5, 2024 19:31:06 GMT -6
Let's regroup when this thing goes on sale!
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Post by christopher on May 6, 2024 12:09:06 GMT -6
Not trying to steer the thread to a competitor, I went a few weeks back looking at plugins for h3000. In the end I felt they are pretty close to my ridiculous long parallel aux plugin chain, and cost a lot, so I stayed with my setup.
My favorite examples on YouTube were Clearmountain plugins. And Clearmountian spaces is $49 right now. I haven’t tried it yet, considering it. Of course Bob was demoing through his SSL
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Post by notneeson on May 6, 2024 17:18:36 GMT -6
Not trying to steer the thread to a competitor, I went a few weeks back looking at plugins for h3000. In the end I felt they are pretty close to my ridiculous long parallel aux plugin chain, and cost a lot, so I stayed with my setup. My favorite examples on YouTube were Clearmountain plugins. And Clearmountian spaces is $49 right now. I haven’t tried it yet, considering it. Of course Bob was demoing through his SSL You can’t just throw around terms like “long parallel aux chain” and not give us the details! |
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