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Post by svart on May 6, 2024 9:11:41 GMT -6
Good riddance. The music instrument equivalent to Walmart drive the proper mom n pop stores out of business. Let them rot. I hope the local shops make a come back. I want to buy from people who give a damn. Was that ever true though? Growing up we had a mom and pop music store in my town and they were the worst. I'd go in there and look around while dreaming and planning, and they'd chase me out with a "if you're not here to buy, get out" kind of thing. The few times I wasn't immediately chased out, I'd ask questions and get a nice "get your parents to sign you up for our classes and we'll answer your questions".. Of course I wasn't there to buy, I was like 15 and had no money. When I turned 18 or so, Mars music opened a store within driving distance. I then learned that the most basic drumset that the local store was selling for 1200$ was actually 500$ at Mars..
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Post by bgrotto on May 6, 2024 9:45:35 GMT -6
Good riddance. The music instrument equivalent to Walmart drive the proper mom n pop stores out of business. Let them rot. I hope the local shops make a come back. I want to buy from people who give a damn. Was that ever true though? Growing up we had a mom and pop music store in my town and they were the worst. I'd go in there and look around while dreaming and planning, and they'd chase me out with a "if you're not here to buy, get out" kind of thing. The few times I wasn't immediately chased out, I'd ask questions and get a nice "get your parents to sign you up for our classes and we'll answer your questions".. Of course I wasn't there to buy, I was like 15 and had no money. When I turned 18 or so, Mars music opened a store within driving distance. I then learned that the most basic drumset that the local store was selling for 1200$ was actually 500$ at Mars.. I guess I’ve been lucky. Had great local shops when I was growing up, welcoming of young musicians, and happy to show us their high end gear without hassle. These days, I love my Drum Center of Portsmouth, my Music Emporium, and so on.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on May 6, 2024 9:52:12 GMT -6
Was that ever true though? Growing up we had a mom and pop music store in my town and they were the worst. I'd go in there and look around while dreaming and planning, and they'd chase me out with a "if you're not here to buy, get out" kind of thing. The few times I wasn't immediately chased out, I'd ask questions and get a nice "get your parents to sign you up for our classes and we'll answer your questions".. Of course I wasn't there to buy, I was like 15 and had no money. When I turned 18 or so, Mars music opened a store within driving distance. I then learned that the most basic drumset that the local store was selling for 1200$ was actually 500$ at Mars.. I guess I’ve been lucky. Had great local shops when I was growing up, welcoming of young musicians, and happy to show us their high end gear without hassle. These days, I love my Drum Center of Portsmouth, my Music Emporium, and so on. Yeah me too. I used to hang around the music shops literally doing nothing but distracting the employees. Eventually I did buy an American Standard Strat (which I still have btw) but they had to put in probably 40 hours of small talk with a 14 year old kid before they sold that guitar. Most of the local shops in the Austin area that I go to are pretty darn good. But I still go to GC for emergency needs like "crap, I forgot my sustain pedal and soundcheck is in 30 minutes" or whatnot.
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Post by Ward on May 6, 2024 10:03:03 GMT -6
Oops . . . quote below.
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Post by Ward on May 6, 2024 10:03:34 GMT -6
Like that "Frankie" guy? Honestly, not really my bag...but it's amazing. Great playing. Bits of Steve Vai, Eric Johnson, Guthrie Govan and others in there but a very unique attack and phrasing . . . both almost Beck like at times.
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Post by EmRR on May 6, 2024 11:28:36 GMT -6
In my town -
There were the mom and pops that had stuff, were realistically priced, answered your questions, and let you browse forever.
There were the mom and pops that had stuff, were full list, answered your questions, and let you browse forever.
There were the mom and pops that had little, were all over the place on price, with a moody owner who you had to take the temp on whether it was worth bothering. They might chase you out, they might take you in the back and dig through boxes to find what you needed.
There were the mom and pops that had an 'in crowd' who could hang around, get good deals, but fuck you if you weren't known.
There were the mom and pops that had stuff, were full list, and chased you out pretty quickly.
There were the mom and pops amongst those above that lived on school band rentals, cared nothing about the rest.
There were the mom and pops that were just guitar stores.
There were the mom and pops that had some of everything, and let it sit on the floor forever with no price adjustments or inventory swaps. Museums.
There were the mom and pops that knew the meaning of turnover and dropped prices on things that hadn't moved, to get them gone.
The BIG BOX have been an amalgamation of the worthlessness of some of the above, whilst having obliterated the ability to 'just go somewhere else' if you didn't get what you needed.
Probably missed a few.....
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Post by markfouxman on May 6, 2024 11:37:32 GMT -6
Today got an email:
The Collapse Of Sam Ash Music
How the internet revolution brought down a one-time industry leader
In late February came the news that Sam Ash Music would be closing 18 of its 45 locations in order to “consolidate” and “focus resources on better performing stores.” A month later, the Ash family delivered a bombshell, announcing that they were closing all stores and looking for a buyer to salvage their 100-year-old retail chain. The news elicited a torrent of emotion throughout the industry—sympathy for the travails of the Ash family, sadness at the closing an enterprise that launched the careers of innumerable musicians and industry professionals, and shock that a longstanding industry institution could crumble so quickly.
The collapse of a one-time industry leader underscores just how dramatically the internet has reshaped the retail landscape. Suppliers familiar with Sam Ash Music estimate that staffing and lease payments put the break-even point for its 20,000-square-foot locations well north of $6.0 million. With approximately 50% of music products sales now transacted online, generating that level of business at a brick and mortar store has become difficult, bordering on impossible. While Sam Ash operated a popular website, its online sales were obviously not sufficient to prop up the struggling stores.
Online retail enjoys inherent productivity advantages that are nearly impossible for a conventional brick and mortar store to match. Sales-per-employee for the typical online music retailer is over $700,000, versus $220,000 for brick and mortar. On a sales-per-square-foot basis, the disparity is even greater—industry leader Sweetwater generates revenue out of two distribution centers that rivals what Guitar Center produces from over 300 stores. These efficiencies allow for a broader selection—over 50,000 SKUs at Sweetwater versus 7,000 or 8,000 at a well-stocked conventional store.
The brick and mortar retailers able to prevail against the selection, convenience, and price of online rivals are those that deliver specialized service or a unique “in-person” buying experience. Think boutique guitar specialists like Gruhn Guitars of Nashville, or school music operations like Chicago-based Quinlan & Fabish. Providing this high level of person touch becomes harder as the number of locations increase, which explain the decline in the number of multi-outlet operations. In 1991 there were 17 retailers with 10 or more locations. Last year, excluding Guitar Center with its 558 locations (including Music & Arts) and Sam Ash, there were just five.
Sam Ash Music is the latest and most prominent victim of market shifts and changing consumer buying preferences. But, the story of its downfall is hardly unique. To say music retail has always been a risky undertaking is no overstatement. At Music Trades we began ranking the largest music products retailers by revenue in 1991. Of the 100 retailers that appeared on our first sales ranking, 68 are no longer doing business: 53 of the vanquished closed their doors outright, nine were acquired or merged with another retailer, and Guitar Center and its Music & Arts subsidiary acquired another five.
Some of the closures could be chalked up to a changing marketplace. Twenty piano and organ dealers that appeared on the first list, including once formidable operators like Sherman Clay, Organ Exchange, and Colton Piano were victims of a shrinking home keyboard market. Others could be traced to succession problems: second or third generation family management that lacked the skills or interest to keep the business afloat. Others like Reliable Music in North Carolina, Nadines of Los Angeles, or the Daddy’s Junky Music chain succumbed to Guitar Center’s aggressive store roll-out. The most recent casualties were victims of online powerhouses like Sweetwater and Amazon. Together, the two giants generated over $2.5 billion in revenue, roughly the equivalent of roughly 900 “average” storefronts. In total, 153 retailers that appeared on our retail ranking at some point over the past 33 years are no longer in business.
Home grown music stores are hardly the only ones that have stumbled due to managerial missteps or a changing market. A number of high-profile outsiders have also had “bad luck.” Mark Begelman, who had built Office Depot into a multi-billion dollar chain, hoped to have similar success in the music business with his Music and Recording Superstore chain, better known as MARS. In 1996, he opened the first of 46 cavernous 40,000-square-foot locations, betting that sheer scale would provide an irresistible customer draw. Five years and $100 million in venture capital later, MARS entered liquidation.
Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen was among the first to recognize the potential of the internet, and in 1996 provided financing for zZounds.com, one of the industry’s first online retailers. Unfortunately, his vision wasn’t supported by a skilled management team and zZounds faltered within a few years. After closing, its domain name was taken over by American Musician Supply and continues today.
In 2008, Best Buy took a stab at music retail based on market research showing a strong overlap between guitar buyers and the typical Best Buy customer. Over a three year period, 100 well designed specialty “music stores within a store” were opened inside Best Buy locations across the country. At the end of 2011, the project was scrapped. Apparently, the customer overlap wasn’t as strong as initial research suggested and Best Buy’s consumer electronics sales staff was less adept at presenting m.i. gear.
The Ash family is a uniquely American success story. In 1924 Samuel Ashkenazy pawned his wife Rose’s wedding ring and used the $400 proceeds to buy a tiny music store in Brooklyn. In the 1960s, on the strength of the Beatle boom, his sons Jerry and Paul, added locations throughout the New York metro area and established a reputation for marketing and merchandising savvy. In the 1990s, Jerry’s sons Richard, David, and the late Sammy, expanded beyond New York opening locations in fourteen states. Regrettably, the business model that served them so well—big, well-sited stores, stocked with the best brands at low prices—no longer works as well as it once did.
In the early 1920s, Baldwin Piano & Organ Company executive Philip Wyman created one of the first truly national dealer networks, complete with formal sales agreements, inventory and consumer financing programs, and ample promotional support. Sharing his decades of experience in a 1955 Music Trades interview, Wyman declared, “music dealers usually have a 20 year life expectancy.” After two decades, he noted, a majority close because of the owner’s retirement, new competition, a “mistake,” or some combination of all of the above. Phil Wyman wouldn’t recognize much in today’s music industry, however, his actuarial analysis is as true today as it ever was. This isn’t a business for the weak of heart.
For a better understanding of the shifting music products retail channel, get your copy of Music Trades Top 200 report, which ranks the industry’s leading retailers by revenue and productivity.
Brian T. Majeski Editor
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Post by chessparov on May 6, 2024 13:12:13 GMT -6
I'm afraid I was partly responsible for MARS's closing in Los Angeles.
After I visited a couple times. Sang on a bunch of their mics.
A ton of employees called in sick. (A few were actual musicians unfortunately)
You see my enthusiasm was contagious. Even the "Smart Astronaut" comedy, filled with levity... Never left the ground.
So a "Restraining Order" was put on me! An entire Mars Bar. For a long long time BTW. (Cues "Rocket Man") Chris
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 6, 2024 14:55:44 GMT -6
I have a somewhat unique point of view about this. It's actually the passing of an era. Internet sales have affected all retail, obviously. I grew up in Brooklyn, less than a mile from one of the earliest Sam Ash stores. This was long before expansion into other states. It was a place of wonder for a kid who dreamed of being a rock star. It was a destination on a Saturday, where I could sit down and try out guitars and amps far above my budget at 14 years old. I knew the sons of Sam Ash, and later on his grandchildren. They always treated me with good humor and tolerance.
At that time, there were a few local indy music stores which I enjoyed visiting to see what they had, hoping to find a hidden gem. But Sam Ash was the only place you could put up a sign to find musicians and a gathering place for every musician in the area, including recording artists. So even then you might have a few words Gene Cornish, Leslie West or Billy Joel at a Sam Ash store, just before they became known outside of the NY area. Sam Ash was also a place where many good musicians worked as a day job. So it was a good place to make connections.
As I became a full time pro musician, I would continue to go to Sam Ash in Manhattan for many things. One of the grandsons, Ritchie Ash apprenticed there and eventually became one of the principal owners. I'm grateful for the decades of warm welcomes, even if occasionally punctuated by some snobbery, or I might say "snubbery". As the corporation grew they became a bit full of themselves. I was spending an average of of $10,000 - $15,000 a year at that time and was all too often treated like my business was no big deal to them. I began using Martin Audio for bigger purchases like tape recorders and Neumann mics, and went across the street to Manny's where I was treated like family.
Decades later I heard that Ritchie Ash was now seriously wealthy. I imagine that as a business deal, their real estate became more valuable than the store itself. By the time Sam Ash corp had hit the 3rd and 4th generation, there were probably family disagreements as to how to move forward. I'm sure some descendants preferred to cash out and do other things. The internet retail changes were more than likely to have expedited that eventuality.
Like so many places I used to love in New York, they're history now. I'll say this, convenience has its place, but nothing can compare to the experience of being in a store. The chance meetings, making of new fiends, hands on demos can't be duplicated ordering from Sweetwater. So as that era ends, I'm slightly saddened but can only say thanks to all the wonderful people I met through Sam Ash, and wish the Ash family all the best going forward.
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Post by the other mark williams on May 6, 2024 15:59:12 GMT -6
Similar to what someone said earlier, what I'll miss is another brick-and-mortar nearby who might have an extra mic stand to get me through a gig when I suddenly need another unexpectedly.
What I won't miss is that those brick-and-mortars used to actually carry K&H or something similarly high-quality, but for the past few years, those brick-and-mortars seem to only carry pseudo-house-brands that suck.
There are an increasing number of items that Amazon will ship to me "Same Day delivery," but not enough yet to replace local stores. Plus, how many Post-It notes does one man need to get over the $35 Same Day delivery hump??
Seriously, I'm in Durham, NC - lots of access to stuff. But I recently needed Martin guitar strings on a Thursday. Sound Pure (8 mins from me) doesn't carry Martin, as it turns out. The GC closed a couple years ago and moved to Cary. And High Strung Violins and Guitars were just not open for a few days for some reason - as a mom-and-pop, they do that kind of thing there. Got the strings via Amazon overnight.
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Post by jacobamerritt on May 6, 2024 17:28:46 GMT -6
Anyone popped in to see if there are any good deals in the liquidation sale?
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,086
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Post by ericn on May 6, 2024 17:51:26 GMT -6
Similar to what someone said earlier, what I'll miss is another brick-and-mortar nearby who might have an extra mic stand to get me through a gig when I suddenly need another unexpectedly. What I won't miss is that those brick-and-mortars used to actually carry K&H or something similarly high-quality, but for the past few years, those brick-and-mortars seem to only carry pseudo-house-brands that suck. There are an increasing number of items that Amazon will ship to me "Same Day delivery," but not enough yet to replace local stores. Plus, how many Post-It notes does one man need to get over the $35 Same Day delivery hump?? Seriously, I'm in Durham, NC - lots of access to stuff. But I recently needed Martin guitar strings on a Thursday. Sound Pure (8 mins from me) doesn't carry Martin, as it turns out. The GC closed a couple years ago and moved to Cary. And High Strung Violins and Guitars were just not open for a few days for some reason - as a mom-and-pop, they do that kind of thing there. Got the strings via Amazon overnight. What really killed your modern MI dealer isn’t the rise of the internet though it didn’t help and was contributing factor it was the adoption of MAP that was meant to protect them and Manufacturers like Peavey and the brands of ST Louis music dropping their protective no mail order policies. How did MAP kill mom and pop? We were all told the whole point was to protect them? Well it protected them on selling price, but it killed them because let’s say you were a Small MI dealer in Middleton WI, approximately 1.5 miles down the road from Full Compass, let’s say you bought another MI dealer with a more pro audio dealer because they had JBL and all the other Harman lines and you bought them for those lines ( even though the rep or Harman could have ended that with 30 days notice). So someone wants SRX series, no problem technically we have to advertise at the same price and should sell at it, but if the Ma & Pop wants a pair ASAP, they are paying freight and about 5 percent more than Full Co because of the volume. So the little guy was protected on price but not Margin. When St. Louis music ( pre Loud / Mackie) started opening up Major Mail order for SKB they gave us access to everything, these brands were great at keeping bid packages written by local dealers because the big boys couldn’t supply what was spec’ed so you either had to no bid or substitute and on some bids that was a lot of work. Since the local dealers acted as the consultant they could quash any substitutions. Most of the majors were opened up by Peavey for local contracting ( install ) of Media Matrix Peaveys specialized install line that honestly had some very cool unique products. The reps got greasy and would let you sell but not advertise Peavey and eventually after we all “ accidentally” put it on the line card, advertised or put it in catalogs or on the web, they liked the $ and just opened us up. Suddenly these lines you didn’t have to worry about getting beat up on were open season. GC and for a bit MARs dominated large markets with Mail order like inventory and selection Ma and pa just couldn’t compete. Mark the trick for consumables is to make friends with the Local SR guys who also provide back line.
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Post by gwlee7 on May 6, 2024 19:00:44 GMT -6
The local music shop owners in my little town treated me like I belonged to them. As I grew up, if I wanted something, they would let me take it and pay for it on installments on an “off book” lay away ledger sheet labelled “Greg Fucking Lee”. 😂. I would stop by every week and give them what we agreed to till I paid for it. Unfortunately I got some stuff from them and then sorta disappeared on them when I got strung out in my late teens, early twenties. When I got sober, I knew one of the things I needed to do was make it right with them. I swing by and they are like “Greg Fucking Lee” where you been? I tell them what’s up and pay them what I owe. They never said a negative thing to me about it.
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Post by sean on May 6, 2024 19:49:12 GMT -6
Anyone popped in to see if there are any good deals in the liquidation sale? Went to the Nashville store and guitar amps were marked down 5% (no joke) and nothing really caught my eye. They had an old Acetone Top 1 organ but wanted $1600 for it...which is $1000 more than it's probably worth haha.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on May 6, 2024 20:30:08 GMT -6
Anyone popped in to see if there are any good deals in the liquidation sale? Went to the Nashville store and guitar amps were marked down 5% (no joke) and nothing really caught my eye. They had an old Acetone Top 1 organ but wanted $1600 for it...which is $1000 more than it's probably worth haha. Yeah been watching a couple of used pieces on line, no big discounts yet, now if you’re friendly with any of the staff you might be able to find out when the discounts are coming and when the doors close.
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Post by Ward on May 7, 2024 5:46:14 GMT -6
Anyone popped in to see if there are any good deals in the liquidation sale? Almost asked that myself, then I thought "I'm naturally gonna creep people out who will come with the whole 'chancing' around a girl after she's dumped her boyfriend thing" . . . so, is she single now? LOL
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Post by bikescene on May 7, 2024 6:14:22 GMT -6
Anyone popped in to see if there are any good deals in the liquidation sale? I hear in-store sales are 5% off. Over the past year, they’ve had monthly 15% online coupons in an attempt to drum up business. Their online sales of guitars were of in-store inventory off the racks. I have my doubts that the sales will be good for desirable items at this point.
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Post by bluesholyman on May 7, 2024 6:23:11 GMT -6
I suspect locations that are leased (real estate not owned) will have the best deals as there is incentive to exit those leases to cut losses from them. I think the real-estate owned locations will probably take their time to get as much money as possible out of stock inventory.
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