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Post by Shadowk on Apr 28, 2024 9:45:20 GMT -6
I'm still a bit out of practice for sure but it's obvious that when I'm recording or dubbing after a basic plugin / rough mix setup (this is using the DSP mixer only) I'm having to pull back tracks by a 64th or at least nudge it to get it back in (somewhat) time. I've had a good look at the manual but is there some setting I'm missing here? Shouldn't Pro Tools automatically compensate for this? When I had HDX years back it did.
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Post by andersmv on Apr 28, 2024 9:50:56 GMT -6
You might want to put some time aside and weed through this thread: duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=417631This was why I had to ultimately abandon the Carbon, I just had WAY too many sync problems with it. You're not the only one, I havn't gone on the DUC site in a while so maybe some of it has been sorted by now. |
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Post by Shadowk on Apr 28, 2024 11:44:03 GMT -6
I'll apologise here because in the grand scheme of audio I have nothing at all to whine about. Although Pro Tools has been the bane of my existence and after I sold my HDX rig none of my client mixes were done in Pro Tools, I converted every track into Samplitude hence the reason they probably sound right. I've had ADC / PDC issues with Pro Tools "vanilla" or HD Native since version 9 and no matter the interface, no matter what you do with it you could just break it without much effort. In one version I did nothing but send a mono track with no plugins on it to an Aux, out of time..
Then I had to try some real ass backwards ways of working to get around certain issues, HW inserts, sidechaining etc. Nah.. Not unless you felt really lucky, what really got me is I took a month off work to record a demo and it came out like phasey crap due to all of these timing issues. For some reason I'm adament that I need to use Pro Tools because I've always found it easier to track or compose with my workflow. Although I'd never dare use it on a client track, there's reasons but if I dig deep why am I doing it to myself?
I'll try their suggested workarounds although I really think I should finally cut my losses once and for all, I might not like the software but Cubase doesn't have these issues. I'd rather have the pain of dumping 23 years of Pro Tools knowledge if the end result is going to be good. I'll report back but, I'm not happy about this especially not for the price.. If I end up selling them I'd just take a huge loss and without the hybrid mixer all I have is a couple of interfaces with crap latency.
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Post by kelk on Apr 29, 2024 0:32:21 GMT -6
Oh man that's a bummer. Hope you get it sorted out.
Also going through that Duc thread.. I had been following your updates with the carbon since I was keen on getting one too.
Looks like i'll be going another route, like a Lynx or any other animal. Nothing carbon based for now
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Apr 29, 2024 3:47:45 GMT -6
This just seems hard to believe. Not doubting you but.. how could something so egregious slip through?
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Post by Shadowk on Apr 29, 2024 4:52:48 GMT -6
This just seems hard to believe. Not doubting you but.. how could something so egregious slip through? I mean, there's many sources of information on it so I'm not sure how it's hard to believe? The DUC thread Anders posted, even in 2024.3 they're still fixing delay comp issues, here's a list from the bug fix release notes www.production-expert.com/production-expert-1/pro-tools-20243-bug-fixes. Avid have even admitted there's issues, also they aren't the only DAW creators having these problems (there's a long thread on another popular DAW on the purple site) and it's usually the bigger, older more chaotic code bases.
That's fair enough but HDX is fine and other competitors don't cost anywhere near what a Pro Tools Ultimate / Carbon / sub rig costs. I'm not sure why they didn't just give us access to the full HDX mixer? Yes the hybrid engine is better but maybe just until they got it right. |
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Post by andersmv on Apr 29, 2024 6:11:57 GMT -6
I'll apologise here because in the grand scheme of audio I have nothing at all to whine about. Although Pro Tools has been the bane of my existence and after I sold my HDX rig none of my client mixes were done in Pro Tools, I converted every track into Samplitude hence the reason they probably sound right. I've had ADC / PDC issues with Pro Tools "vanilla" or HD Native since version 9 and no matter the interface, no matter what you do with it you could just break it without much effort. In one version I did nothing but send a mono track with no plugins on it to an Aux, out of time.. Then I had to try some real ass backwards ways of working to get around certain issues, HW inserts, sidechaining etc. Nah.. Not unless you felt really lucky, what really got me is I took a month off work to record a demo and it came out like phasey crap due to all of these timing issues. For some reason I'm adament that I need to use Pro Tools because I've always found it easier to track or compose with my workflow. Although I'd never dare use it on a client track, there's reasons but if I dig deep why am I doing it to myself? I'll try their suggested workarounds although I really think I should finally cut my losses once and for all, I might not like the software but Cubase doesn't have these issues. I'd rather have the pain of dumping 23 years of Pro Tools knowledge if the end result is going to be good. I'll report back but, I'm not happy about this especially not for the price.. If I end up selling them I'd just take a huge loss and without the hybrid mixer all I have is a couple of interfaces with crap latency. Consider an Apollo and trying Luna, it’s pretty solid now and easy to adjust to from ProTools. I’ve considered doing my tracking in Luna here, I’m just working with way too many people regularly that have a lot of production experience and use ProTools as well. I’ve done a few tracking sessions with Luna and it was an extremely easy learning curve. UA’s done a good job. |
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Post by doubledog on Apr 29, 2024 8:08:12 GMT -6
Consider an Apollo and trying Luna, it’s pretty solid now and easy to adjust to from ProTools. I’ve considered doing my tracking in Luna here, I’m just working with way too many people regularly that have a lot of production experience and use ProTools as well. I’ve done a few tracking sessions with Luna and it was an extremely easy learning curve. UA’s done a good job. but wasn't hardware inserts the whole impetus here for Carbon? and I thought Luna was still absent there? (but what do I care I run Windows and UA hasn't even mentioned Luna anymore since they promised it for Windows, what 3 years ago now? ha ha) |
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Post by Shadowk on Apr 29, 2024 9:27:57 GMT -6
Consider an Apollo and trying Luna, it’s pretty solid now and easy to adjust to from ProTools. I’ve considered doing my tracking in Luna here, I’m just working with way too many people regularly that have a lot of production experience and use ProTools as well. I’ve done a few tracking sessions with Luna and it was an extremely easy learning curve. UA’s done a good job. but wasn't hardware inserts the whole impetus here for Carbon? and I thought Luna was still absent there? (but what do I care I run Windows and UA hasn't even mentioned Luna anymore since they promised it for Windows, what 3 years ago now? ha ha) Spot on, yeah the issue is hardware inserts. I could move most of my HW to the SSL desk and use Cubase then run it at 96Khz which would give me a 3msec output, only issue is I bought the Carbon's recently and I'll take a steep loss on them. Fingers crossed it won't get to that, I'm trying most of the somewhat illogical workarounds I did with native years back and the one's mentioned in the thread Anders posted but I guess it is a bit like dancing on a floor of banana peels. |
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Post by andersmv on Apr 29, 2024 10:02:31 GMT -6
I forgot about that part... Ya, not sure why UA hasn't gotten around to that yet.
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Post by Dan on Apr 29, 2024 11:35:02 GMT -6
That sucks tbh. These older DAWs like Logic and Pro Tools haven't been rewritten. Distortion plugs need to oversample to accommodate the harmonics and dynamics plugins have to have lookahead to smooth the attack or oversample parts of the plugin very high to get analog level performance, like the Weiss and TDR plugs. All of this involves latency from FIR filters, the same with hardware inserts from the converters.
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Post by thirdeye on Apr 29, 2024 13:16:45 GMT -6
I'm still a bit out of practice for sure but it's obvious that when I'm recording or dubbing after a basic plugin / rough mix setup (this is using the DSP mixer only) I'm having to pull back tracks by a 64th or at least nudge it to get it back in (somewhat) time. I've had a good look at the manual but is there some setting I'm missing here? Shouldn't Pro Tools automatically compensate for this? When I had HDX years back it did. I've not used a Carbon interface yet, but in the I/O setup using HDX, there's a box to tick to compensate for converter input and output latency after the record pass. You've probably already done it, It's worth a double check to make sure that setting is on. Also, if I'm tracking in the control room using monitors, I'll bypass our studio monitoring DSP (MiniDSP running Dirac) I'm using because it has significant latency. Or go to headphones. Sucks if it's a bug with Carbon and delay comp. Not really surprising. I've had things sound out of sync sometimes after changing routing, close session and re-open, and everything is back to normal. |
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