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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 22, 2024 8:38:47 GMT -6
Not really sure how to title this…but been meaning to break this out into a separate topic. I’m talking from a very naive perspective considering I don’t code, am not very good at math and generally not a people-person…but I CAN complain. So here it is.
I own an Axefx. I’ve had one (on and off) since probably like 2019ish. To me, the thing was mind blowing when I pulled it out of the box, but I think when I first bought it, it was on FW 15 or so. It’s at FW25.01 right now and each number was a major FW change and minor ones signified by the .xx numbers. Anyway - every time I thought, “theres really no way this is going to be dramatically better.” But almost every time it was.
So maybe this isn’t an apples to apples comparison, but the improvements are consistent. The UAD plugs have been sonically updated what - once? And that might be more than most. You’re telling me tech hasn’t moved forward since the mkII’s were release what - 8 years ago?
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Post by doubledog on Apr 22, 2024 9:57:28 GMT -6
I think so many plugin companies put something out and then just try to collect $$.
Soundtoys has done this forever. Superplate was actually a very nice update - even though I had to pay extra (even while owning the entire SoundToys 5 bundle). But excluding that one, I can't really think of anything they've done since I bought that bundle (back in 2016).
UA - there are already so many threads on that... I'm feeling kind of full anyway.
United Plugins - they keep putting out new and useful stuff. And they put out free updates (for example Front DAW recently got new models and you can easily do up to 4x oversampling, etc.)
Waves - mostly dead to me.
Slate Digital - I really liked them when they first came out and I use several of them a lot, but they are one of the worst when it comes to updates and now it's part of Audiotonix (big conglomerate) -but they did actually release a new plugin recently so maybe they will be different?
Steven Slate - some cool stuff (VSX) and useful plugins (Trigger) but updates and new features are kinda few and far between...
Plugin Alliance - a couple new things now and then, but I'll wait until it's $29.
Softube - I really like that VCA comp they gave away recently but was that an existing plugin or a reboot? not sure...
Valhalla DSP - so far I've only used the free stuff (I've got so many reverbs...), but they did update Supermassive and tbh, that is one of my favorites (free or not) for when you want something that is not just plain reverb or slap delay.
Massey - I really love the TD5 tape delay. I've got L2007 but haven't used it since... well in along time. I'm glad TD5 still works (although saving a setting has always been weird - it always seems to force the setting to stereo linked - and loses one side of the saved setting - so I have to save L & R separately. I tried explaining way back, but gave up. And I'm using the Windows versions so don't get much support from him on that anyway.... but like I said, I really like TD5 a lot. Last update? probably at least 5-7 years ago... last new anything? at least that long. but I get it, he's small time.
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Post by the other mark williams on Apr 22, 2024 10:12:56 GMT -6
I think so many plugin companies put something out and then just try to collect $$. Soundtoys has done this forever. Superplate was actually a very nice update - even though I had to pay extra (owning the entire SoundToys bundle). But excluding that one, I can't really think of anything they've done since I bought that bundle (back in 2016). Wait, you mean you never got Soundtoys Juice?? Hahahaha, anybody else remember that? They even won an award at one of the conferences for that plugin, and they never even ended up releasing it! |
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Post by notneeson on Apr 22, 2024 13:36:47 GMT -6
This thread is forcing me to think about all the plugins I own and, um, it's a lot.
For years I made due with the Massey stuff and a bunch of stock PT stuff. Those projects were all tracked in nice rooms and simple plugins were more than enough to get a good mix.
Anyway, I feel like plugins are making incremental improvement but some old stuff really stands up.
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Post by thehightenor on Apr 22, 2024 13:41:27 GMT -6
The TC Powercore Brickwall Limter from the MD3 suite is 16 years old and I’ve never come across a plugin limiter I prefer in 16 years!!!!
How old is the code in a Lexicon 224 or 480.
Some things they got right first time.
A bit like the U47 is from the 1950’s - no upgrade needed there for my taste.
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Post by geoff738 on Apr 22, 2024 13:54:55 GMT -6
I mean there are some newish things out there. Dynamic eqs. Something like the Silver bullet does some new things.
M/s? I suppose Fairchilds did that in the fifties, but it took a while for it to filter down into the plugin market.
Kush is saying the new eq they have is a game changer and is going to be incorporated into at least some of their existing stuff?
How many obscure hardware pieces are there left to “emulate”?
Cheers,
Geoff
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Post by veggieryan on Apr 22, 2024 14:01:07 GMT -6
Mixwave's Coil Audio CA-70S plugin has set a new standard for tube saturation/distortion which makes UAD2 Mk2 and UADx sound dated at best... run it at 8x samplerate and play with the input/NF/output knobs to see how they interact.
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Post by thehightenor on Apr 22, 2024 14:04:36 GMT -6
Mixwave's Coil Audio CA-70S plugin has set a new standard for tube saturation/distortion which makes UAD2 Mk2 and UADx sound dated at best... run it at 8x samplerate and play with the input/NF/output knobs to see how they interact. You seem very keen on the mix wave CA-70s. I’ve demoed it and ABX tested against my hardware CA-70s - yes it was good, I wasn’t blown away particularly. I’ve been far more impressed by the latest offerings from UAD. |
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Post by veggieryan on Apr 22, 2024 14:09:48 GMT -6
Mixwave's Coil Audio CA-70S plugin has set a new standard for tube saturation/distortion which makes UAD2 Mk2 and UADx sound dated at best... run it at 8x samplerate and play with the input/NF/output knobs to see how they interact. You seem very keen on the mix wave CA-70s. I’ve demoed it and ABX tested against my hardware CA-70s - yes it was good, I wasn’t blown away particularly. I’ve been far more impressed by the latest offerings from UAD. Which UAD offerings? I just love how the CA-70 negative feedback lets me move things forward/back in a mix effortlessly and seems to tame everything I don't like about certain sources along with the output drive. The plugin does some of that and to me it sounds more like a real tube than any other plugin I have heard. I do think the new Capitol Mastering Compressor is a step up for UAD which is probably why they can't run it on UAD2 DSP? |
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Post by Dan on Apr 22, 2024 15:08:39 GMT -6
This thread is forcing me to think about all the plugins I own and, um, it's a lot. For years I made due with the Massey stuff and a bunch of stock PT stuff. Those projects were all tracked in nice rooms and simple plugins were more than enough to get a good mix. Anyway, I feel like plugins are making incremental improvement but some old stuff really stands up. The old stuff that holds up holds up because they prevented distortion in brutal ways like with lookaheads to smooth the attack of the compressors to prevent distortion but makes them not really being able to compress anything in the high part of the audio band, they just act like a fader ride because they attack slower than the frequency. The distortion because they chose to apply low harmonic polynomial wave shapers usually and blend it back. Many older distortion plugins do not distort the highs so have problems aliasing. The only digital compressor that could compress the full audible bandwidth without issues 20 years ago was the Weiss DS1. Now that is a plugin and it's still very good with all of the "sound" just being how the action of the compressor was designed with attack/release before threshold and a brute force like a gate hold to compensate for the lookahead that smooths the attack (it does smooth it and lower distortion unlike a simple delay) to make the compressor not release prematurely where others like with lookahead like Waves Renaissance Compressor (cannot compress anything over 1 kHz) just make sure the impulse response of the FIR attack filter is at least equal in time to the lookahead.
They also were unable to apply a wide palette of distortion when now you can download some super weird stuff based on unrepairable, rare, or unique hardware or totally unique digital distortions.
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Post by Dan on Apr 22, 2024 15:35:12 GMT -6
Amp sims and dynamics software got a lot better in the last 10 years. The UAD Manley stuff sounds like a fart compared to the paid Klanghelm plugs and MJUC just sounds unclear (but flexible) next to the Goodhertz Tupe and DDMF Magic Death Eye plugins.
The Mercurial, Overloud, Neural DSP, and Taranov (?) sims aren't bad. Goodhertz Tupe is pretty good.
The digital dynamics stuff is way better. The TDR, Weiss, and some other plugs like the even more complex Unisum are really good. The Weiss Deess and TDR Arbiter are great de-essers too. Oeksound stuff is cool but more drastic.
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Post by notneeson on Apr 22, 2024 17:16:35 GMT -6
LTL Silver Bullet is still my favorite plugin and it's nice and new, FWIW.
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Post by svart on Apr 23, 2024 6:20:37 GMT -6
I dunno. I think the sound of plugs has been good enough for a long time. I've narrowed down the ones I use to just a handful and I can't really see how they can be bested for what I use them for.
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Post by thehightenor on Apr 23, 2024 6:42:36 GMT -6
I dunno. I think the sound of plugs has been good enough for a long time. I've narrowed down the ones I use to just a handful and I can't really see how they can be bested for what I use them for. +1 Agreed. And anyway the biggest difference to making a recording sound fantastic is the arrangement. Get that spot on and whether you use a 1073/1081/Fabfilter/ DMG etc etc EQ .... will melt away as bordering on irrelevant. |
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Post by easyrider on Apr 23, 2024 7:02:54 GMT -6
The plugin market is both saturated and stagnant. Some top end producers mixers still use Metric Halo Channelstrip. Plugins are one of the greatest rock n roll swindles… Pro tools stock EQ will get things done. The market has tanked at $29 and we buy cause they are cheap…and we all have too many…and we all don’t use most of them…  |
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Post by ironinthepath on Apr 23, 2024 8:06:09 GMT -6
Even at those crazy low prices for plugins, good hardware is MUCH cheaper (per kg) 😜
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Post by thehightenor on Apr 23, 2024 8:18:21 GMT -6
The plugin market is both saturated and stagnant. Some top end producers mixers still use Metric Halo Channelstrip. Plugins are one of the greatest rock n roll swindles… Pro tools stock EQ will get things done. The market has tanked at $29 and we buy cause they are cheap…and we all have too many…and we all don’t use most of them… Until you sit down to code a plugin and then after 100's of hours of work you wouldn't mind being payed a reasonable amount of money! Some of the more expensive plugins I've bought have definitely been worth it and stood the test of time. Sonoris Mastering Compressor cost me £200 (it's still £200) it's very classy coding from a small independent developer. My masters goes through it and have done for years - I use it along side hardware costing a kings ransom. Yes, there are more bargains out there now and the market has become competitive for sure, but generally the standard has gone up and up and up imho. |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Apr 23, 2024 8:58:46 GMT -6
Considering the collapse of real customer service at UAD, I'm beginning wonder if something is seriously wrong there. It can't take THAT long to get a couple of qualified customer service reps.
I guess a new plug-in makes much more money for them than an update. UA will lose new customers if they continue to be so profit driven they avoid improving customer service and updates. Something as simple as adding a Mix control on their plugs would be very helpful, as well as a resizing feature. UAD is beginning to remind me of Gibson guitars. They overextended their business and quality suffered to the point where many people began considering alternative brands.
The best example I know of is how Apple has been amazing with updates to Logic. I spent $200 ten years ago, and the've updated it dozens times now for FREE.
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Post by ironinthepath on Apr 23, 2024 9:10:39 GMT -6
I think Apple is unique in that they can (likely) count on users buying new hardware fairly regularly if they keep the software solid, trouble free, and up to date. It could be argued that UAD might have been similarly motivated with customer’s buying their hardware formats also, but that’s basically over now too.
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 23, 2024 10:25:44 GMT -6
I dunno. I think the sound of plugs has been good enough for a long time. I've narrowed down the ones I use to just a handful and I can't really see how they can be bested for what I use them for. +1 Agreed. And anyway the biggest difference to making a recording sound fantastic is the arrangement. Get that spot on and whether you use a 1073/1081/Fabfilter/ DMG etc etc EQ .... will melt away as bordering on irrelevant. 90% of the songs we love sonically sound like poop. We love them for all the other reasons. |
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Post by Dan on Apr 23, 2024 18:31:52 GMT -6
+1 Agreed. And anyway the biggest difference to making a recording sound fantastic is the arrangement. Get that spot on and whether you use a 1073/1081/Fabfilter/ DMG etc etc EQ .... will melt away as bordering on irrelevant. 90% of the songs we love sonically sound like poop. We love them for all the other reasons. There are only a handful of metal albums where all the instruments sound good. |
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Post by geoff738 on Apr 23, 2024 21:21:54 GMT -6
This ties into the AI discussion. How long before there’s a produce like Cla plug or master like Ludwig etc. I don’t think it will be all that long.
Cheers,
Geoff
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