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Post by smashlord on Apr 18, 2024 9:51:55 GMT -6
So currently my business partner and I are looking for a space for a new studio build. Unforunately, I know nothing about commercial real estate and am sort of at loss of where to start, what to look for, what to be wary of, etc....
I was wondering if those who have done builds, bought or leased spaces, etc.... could share any experiences or tips?
General guidelines of what we are looking for is about 3000-4000 sq ft, at least 12' ceilings (ideally more) to construct one large live room, flanked by two control rooms that both would have access to it. Probably each control room would have their own iso booth, and have of course a lounge/kitchenette, storage, bathroom etc.
Anything about building types, type of areas to look in, type of areas to avoid, lease terms, etc...etc... would be super helpful!
Thank you!
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Post by nick8801 on Apr 18, 2024 10:32:41 GMT -6
Where do you live?
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Post by Tbone81 on Apr 18, 2024 12:58:32 GMT -6
It’s very hard these days to lease a commercial space for a studio and make it profitable. You almost have to own the building for it to have a chance. The cost of the buildout makes it a dicey proposition when the landlord can raise rent at the end of the lease term, or when a new owner can jack up the price.
That being said, if you go that route get someone to negotiate the lease for you. There really are no “standard” commercial leases, at least not like residential leases. There may be some common lease terms you’ll see like Triple Net Leases, but everything is negotiated.
One thing you can do is negotiate a lease rate, with an option to renew at the same rate when the lease expires. For example, you pay $1k’per month over a three year lease period with the option to renew for another three years at the same rate. That at least guarantees your lease expenses over the first several years of your business (when your start up costs are the highest).
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Post by explorer on Apr 18, 2024 13:28:24 GMT -6
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Post by thehightenor on Apr 19, 2024 5:50:42 GMT -6
So currently my business partner and I are looking for a space for a new studio build. Unforunately, I know nothing about commercial real estate and am sort of at loss of where to start, what to look for, what to be wary of, etc.... I was wondering if those who have done builds, bought or leased spaces, etc.... could share any experiences or tips? General guidelines of what we are looking for is about 3000-4000 sq ft, at least 12' ceilings (ideally more) to construct one large live room, flanked by two control rooms that both would have access to it. Probably each control room would have their own iso booth, and have of course a lounge/kitchenette, storage, bathroom etc. Anything about building types, type of areas to look in, type of areas to avoid, lease terms, etc...etc... would be super helpful! Thank you! If you're investing significant capital into the fitting out a studio space in someone else's building then I'd personally look for a guaranteed long term lease (in the form of options - checked over by a solicitor) and to get a landlord who understands your business and to a degree is "on your side" and understands what you're trying to achieve on your own personal financial risks. They are out there, not all landlords are cut throat - but the last thing you want is to invest substantial sums and then an unscrupulous landlord see the opportunity to hike the rent in the belief you'll suck it up - I've seen this happen to studio's I've worked in. Better to buy a property - especially longer term - but obviously this is the far more expensive route. Here in the UK - this company deals in ready to hire/buy commercial and residential studio spaces. It will give you some ideas. mjq.co.uk/properties/They even have time share studio spaces now - as the market is so difficult to make a regular profit in - especially in big cities. You are defiantly going to need a unique selling point for your studio - it's not a thriving scene like it once was! I wish you good luck. |
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Post by notneeson on Apr 19, 2024 11:05:41 GMT -6
Commercial leases typically are very long in the US. They have to be to give the business a shot. But, I recall our own jcoutu1 got pretty badly hosed by his landlord and had to put his console in storage. My old studio partners had access to a residential space that they rented from family. Seems safe enough so they built it out... pulling zero permits. Years later the fire inspector came and someone who was painting the exterior would not grant access. So the fire inspector tipped off the building inspector and, long story short, they had to tear out the entire build. It pretty much broke their hearts, they built and then had to demolish their dream. |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Apr 19, 2024 11:49:06 GMT -6
I was in my space for about 4.5 years. After the original lease ran out, we were month to month. Installed the 5088 in September. Jan 1, my landlord told me I needed to be out by March 1 because he was expanding his business in the same building and needed more space.
Now there is another “studio” there for what I assume is much higher rent. Landlord didn’t even give me the option of upping the rent.
The upside was that my gf was diagnosed with cancer that April, so I was available to help take care of her while that was going on. It’s been a long 2 years.
Anyway, I would not build out anything that I don’t own. Trying to be a full time commercial studio at this point is a very difficult prop. Look at the rates of studios in your area. Not sure how busy your schedule looks with bands etc. My last year in the space I did 162 bookings in addition to my full time job. Working my balls off to make it work. And after all expenses of running the place, and stuff, my hourly rate was shit. Now I’m self recording in my living room, recording the projects I want to work on instead of whoever had a fist full of money, and still putting out quality product.
The idea of having a live room with 2 control rooms is boss though. I’ve had the same thoughts. Much more flexibility and usability of the space that way. If you could even squeeze a 3rd control room, could be good. We had many sessions where we just needed the control room and iso booth and that live room would have been free for someone else if we had another control room.
That’s absolutely the way to go.
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Post by drbill on Apr 19, 2024 12:54:01 GMT -6
Own, own, own. I would (personally) never lease out a building to build a studio in it. Studio construction is just too expensive - and then you have the possibility of ending up where jcoutu1 ended up. All that said, the commercial real estate market is just about to pop. It's bubble has gone exponential, and the smart money guys are calling for a huge collapse. Soon. I'd suggest you pull the direction away from building a studio, to securing the correct property, and getting a finger on the pulse of things wherever you happen to be. Smart money says sit and hold until things collapse - then be ready and buy!! Good luck. I personally can't imagine doing a commercial studio at this stage of the game. Wish you the best. |
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Apr 20, 2024 19:21:41 GMT -6
First with any partnership you need an ironclad partnership agreement that covers as many possible outcomes as possible.
commercial real estate is tricky, lots of owners have no problem with a space sitting empty rather than at least covering expenses. Don’t be tricked by a really nice short term offer. The trick many pull is getting you in and invested in the space, then jacking up the rent.
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Post by Ned Ward on Apr 25, 2024 14:18:20 GMT -6
Start with a business plan before doing anything.
Where are you located? What are the state and even local rules and zoning regulations?
Why do you need to build out another studio? What are you outgrowing in your current one?
How much competition is within an hour drive?
How much actual tracking of acoustic instruments (drums, piano, horns, etc.) that need a real space (vs. vocal booth, amp room, etc.)
What can you afford to lose in terms of investment if it goes belly up?
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Post by okcrecording on Apr 25, 2024 15:04:10 GMT -6
Had a similar situation as jcoutu1. Owned a great studio in downtown SLC that I ran with a business partner. Full build out and acoustics. Not cheap. The building was sold and we were notified we had 2 months to vacate. It can be extremely painful when this happens. Bottom line: own, don't lease. |
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Post by tim on Apr 26, 2024 15:48:42 GMT -6
I live in Illinois where commercial property taxes have gone bonkers. There’s a 5000SF building for sale for dirt cheap but taxes are 35k per year. That makes the economics pretty much impossible for a studio. I would never lease. Too many horror stories of studio owners getting screwed over by landlords.
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Post by upstairs on Apr 26, 2024 16:05:09 GMT -6
I live in Illinois where commercial property taxes have gone bonkers. There’s a 5000SF building for sale for dirt cheap but taxes are 35k per year. That makes the economics pretty much impossible for a studio. I would never lease. Too many horror stories of studio owners getting screwed over by landlords. 3K a month...at that point you're renting from the government. |
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Post by tonycamphd on Jul 30, 2024 11:26:57 GMT -6
IME, I constructed and opened my own recording studio in a commercial space in summer 1993 to the tune of $75k of my own hard earned, I already owned all the gear, the commercial building I "secured" was a 10 year lease, they went bankrupt and were foreclosed on and i was forced out in summer of 1994 by the new owners, business and real estate deals in the USA are complete bullshit for the un monied, the guy with the $ and title win and you are their bitch, your dreams and efforts mean exactly ZERO to them, if you don't own the space don't even think about it, best bet is to find some partners you trust and make it a love project(in writing) that you all share, recording studios are not viable money making business's anymore
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Post by tonycamphd on Jul 30, 2024 11:28:06 GMT -6
I was in my space for about 4.5 years. After the original lease ran out, we were month to month. Installed the 5088 in September. Jan 1, my landlord told me I needed to be out by March 1 because he was expanding his business in the same building and needed more space. Now there is another “studio” there for what I assume is much higher rent. Landlord didn’t even give me the option of upping the rent. The upside was that my gf was diagnosed with cancer that April, so I was available to help take care of her while that was going on. It’s been a long 2 years. Anyway, I would not build out anything that I don’t own. Trying to be a full time commercial studio at this point is a very difficult prop. Look at the rates of studios in your area. Not sure how busy your schedule looks with bands etc. My last year in the space I did 162 bookings in addition to my full time job. Working my balls off to make it work. And after all expenses of running the place, and stuff, my hourly rate was shit. Now I’m self recording in my living room, recording the projects I want to work on instead of whoever had a fist full of money, and still putting out quality product. The idea of having a live room with 2 control rooms is boss though. I’ve had the same thoughts. Much more flexibility and usability of the space that way. If you could even squeeze a 3rd control room, could be good. We had many sessions where we just needed the control room and iso booth and that live room would have been free for someone else if we had another control room. That’s absolutely the way to go. J, this sucks bro, sorry to hear and i hope things are going great for you and yours now |
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Jul 30, 2024 20:32:48 GMT -6
I don't know of anybody leasing studio space who didn't get screwed.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Aug 3, 2024 12:46:02 GMT -6
I was in my space for about 4.5 years. After the original lease ran out, we were month to month. Installed the 5088 in September. Jan 1, my landlord told me I needed to be out by March 1 because he was expanding his business in the same building and needed more space. Now there is another “studio” there for what I assume is much higher rent. Landlord didn’t even give me the option of upping the rent. The upside was that my gf was diagnosed with cancer that April, so I was available to help take care of her while that was going on. It’s been a long 2 years. Anyway, I would not build out anything that I don’t own. Trying to be a full time commercial studio at this point is a very difficult prop. Look at the rates of studios in your area. Not sure how busy your schedule looks with bands etc. My last year in the space I did 162 bookings in addition to my full time job. Working my balls off to make it work. And after all expenses of running the place, and stuff, my hourly rate was shit. Now I’m self recording in my living room, recording the projects I want to work on instead of whoever had a fist full of money, and still putting out quality product. The idea of having a live room with 2 control rooms is boss though. I’ve had the same thoughts. Much more flexibility and usability of the space that way. If you could even squeeze a 3rd control room, could be good. We had many sessions where we just needed the control room and iso booth and that live room would have been free for someone else if we had another control room. That’s absolutely the way to go. J, this sucks bro, sorry to hear and i hope things are going great for you and yours now Holy shit! You’re back?!?! Good to see ya brother! |
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Post by rowmat on Aug 4, 2024 18:37:32 GMT -6
The commercial real estate market is in dire straits.
Rumours are around 500 banks in the US alone are in trouble due to their exposure to bad commercial loans.
I wouldn’t be investing big in anything right at the moment.
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