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Post by teejay on Oct 23, 2024 13:59:00 GMT -6
I've been curious, so I bit. Just used one of the first sites I came to. This one requires you to provide your own lyrics (verses, chorus, bridge), provide a title, and tell it the genre. So, I wrote the lyrics in about 10 minutes, gave it a title, and tried for 'Traditional, Christmas' for the tune. Wasn't expecting Country, but that's what I got...so that's obviously part of the 'surprise' here. Regardless, the results were interesting. I haven't been a songwriter, but was curious if I could write some lyrics what accompaniment might show up. Jesus The Savior |
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Post by damoongo on Oct 23, 2024 18:23:34 GMT -6
I've been curious, so I bit. Just used one of the first sites I came to. This one requires you to provide your own lyrics (verses, chorus, bridge), provide a title, and tell it the genre. So, I wrote the lyrics in about 10 minutes, gave it a title, and tried for 'Traditional, Christmas' for the tune. Wasn't expecting Country, but that's what I got...so that's obviously part of the 'surprise' here. Regardless, the results were interesting. I haven't been a songwriter, but was curious if I could write some lyrics what accompaniment might show up. Jesus The SaviorThis just made me feel quite secure in my profession. Holy F |
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Post by theshea on Oct 24, 2024 1:22:07 GMT -6
At the "Studioszene 2024" (a fair/show held in Hamburg/Germany) they are already helding workshops how to incorporate AI in the musicwriting process and so on ...
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Post by thehightenor on Oct 24, 2024 1:41:31 GMT -6
I've been curious, so I bit. Just used one of the first sites I came to. This one requires you to provide your own lyrics (verses, chorus, bridge), provide a title, and tell it the genre. So, I wrote the lyrics in about 10 minutes, gave it a title, and tried for 'Traditional, Christmas' for the tune. Wasn't expecting Country, but that's what I got...so that's obviously part of the 'surprise' here. Regardless, the results were interesting. I haven't been a songwriter, but was curious if I could write some lyrics what accompaniment might show up. Jesus The SaviorIt sounds like those awful “band in a box” auto chord- auto rhythm sections that came on 1980 - 1990’s all in one keyboards. Just with auto tuned robot vocals added. In the words of King Théoden “…. is that all you’ve got Saruman“  |
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Post by poppaflavor on Oct 24, 2024 3:25:05 GMT -6
It sounds like those awful “band in a box” auto chord- auto rhythm sections that came on 1980 - 1990’s all in one keyboards. Just with auto tuned robot vocals added. In the words of King Théoden “…. is that all you’ve got Saruman“ Hah! Totally. This could be a backing track straight off my Yamaha P125. Was wondering why I was getting deja vu listening to it. |
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 24, 2024 15:45:46 GMT -6
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Post by drbill on Oct 24, 2024 16:09:39 GMT -6
Which site Todd @teejay ??
There are several that don't require any lyrics or title - just a prompt - and generally they are significantly better (subjectively - arrangement, vocal, music) than the above. Udio comes to mind. Still, that could easily be "produced" in a real studio, and you'd have a song that is on par with most modern music out these days. The vocal artifacts on that one is especially horrible, but I've heard ones that are indiscernible from most modern musics.
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Post by Oneiro on Oct 24, 2024 17:23:56 GMT -6
I've been impressed with Udio. Frankly it puts out better than music than a lot of the clients I've had over the years, not to be too much of a jerk. It doesn't really listen to the prompt if you don't give it a genre or some concrete category to anchor to but it still outputs something cool and arguably more differentiated than the average amateur. I don't know what else to say other than I liked it more than I expected to. It obviously has artifacts and strange decisionmaking around certain things, sure, but all of this is leverage for a truly creative multidisciplinary individual. Frankly, I'd trust this and other processes like it more than most people on Fiverr or coming out of Berklee, Julliard, etc. who often have skill but no taste.
Like, we view these things in terms of their technical skill and ability to mimic reality but really, it's all about vision and that will always come from truly singular minds using whatever tools they've got. And those minds have a lot now.
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Post by teejay on Oct 24, 2024 20:08:40 GMT -6
Which site Todd @teejay ?? There are several that don't require any lyrics or title - just a prompt - and generally they are significantly better (subjectively - arrangement, vocal, music) than the above. Udio comes to mind. Still, that could easily be "produced" in a real studio, and you'd have a song that is on par with most modern music out these days. The vocal artifacts on that one is especially horrible, but I've heard ones that are indiscernible from most modern musics. Hey drbill . The site was aimusicfactory. I didn't do any research or much searching. Just picked one that popped up. Didn't hurt that it said I could have 3 'free' attempts. It was mostly just out of curiosity, although part of the motivation was the fact that I'd like to have some original music but I don't play any instruments. I figured the vocal would be bad, but wanted to hear in general what the overall music would be. On my remaining two attempts I used the same lyrics but changed up the genre (orchestral/majestic/sparse bells; acoustic guitar/piano/quiet) and I got much different versions (6 of them...they generated two versions for each), one or two of which were more 'palatable' and could potentially be a starting point. Not even sure about the validity or safety of the site, since some of the spelling is off. These types of sites could easily be a nefarious opening to get hacked, and I'm not sure how one even vets that. |
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Post by drbill on Oct 24, 2024 21:21:43 GMT -6
Which site Todd @teejay ?? There are several that don't require any lyrics or title - just a prompt - and generally they are significantly better (subjectively - arrangement, vocal, music) than the above. Udio comes to mind. Still, that could easily be "produced" in a real studio, and you'd have a song that is on par with most modern music out these days. The vocal artifacts on that one is especially horrible, but I've heard ones that are indiscernible from most modern musics. Hey drbill . The site was aimusicfactory. I didn't do any research or much searching. Just picked one that popped up. Didn't hurt that it said I could have 3 'free' attempts. It was mostly just out of curiosity, although part of the motivation was the fact that I'd like to have some original music but I don't play any instruments. I figured the vocal would be bad, but wanted to hear in general what the overall music would be. On my remaining two attempts I used the same lyrics but changed up the genre (orchestral/majestic/sparse bells; acoustic guitar/piano/quiet) and I got much different versions (6 of them...they generated two versions for each), one or two of which were more 'palatable' and could potentially be a starting point. Not even sure about the validity or safety of the site, since some of the spelling is off. These types of sites could easily be a nefarious opening to get hacked, and I'm not sure how one even vets that. One thing is for sure - they will be using your lyrics in their algorithm. Reading the "fine print" of these sites is pretty terrifying. |
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Post by drbill on Oct 24, 2024 21:28:49 GMT -6
A tangential yet interesting development in "AI" and how it affects musicians and our livelihoods story......
I'm still not a proponent, but I have to say that I was incredibly surprised to see a big fat 5 figure payout from one of the libraries that essentially pirated all it's members music (along with valuable metadata to train the bots) to AI developers without truly proper authorization. (This is such a grey area and the Wild Wild West as far as royalties go)
I just about fell out of my chair when it hit my PayPal. The AI payment was substantially better than the licensing payments I've received from them over the last year and a half. Who woulda thought.
PS - actually, they have been getting hammered pretty hard - making millions from AI developers with their huge library, and paying out virtually pennies to their writers up to this point. I think the threat of a class action lawsuit scared the crap out of them - eventually leading into them breaking open the wallet.....
Still, it makes me wonder if maybe there is a career in supplying music to AI developers......
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Post by damoongo on Oct 24, 2024 23:30:43 GMT -6
I've been impressed with Udio. Frankly it puts out better than music than a lot of the clients I've had over the years, not to be too much of a jerk. It doesn't really listen to the prompt if you don't give it a genre or some concrete category to anchor to but it still outputs something cool and arguably more differentiated than the average amateur. I don't know what else to say other than I liked it more than I expected to. It obviously has artifacts and strange decisionmaking around certain things, sure, but all of this is leverage for a truly creative multidisciplinary individual. Frankly, I'd trust this and other processes like it more than most people on Fiverr or coming out of Berklee, Julliard, etc. who often have skill but no taste.
Like, we view these things in terms of their technical skill and ability to mimic reality but really, it's all about vision and that will always come from truly singular minds using whatever tools they've got. And those minds have a lot now.
This is nonsense. It’s just a further decline of the art form into a non art form. It’s all just collage now. As if throwing some shitty loops into logic was too hard for people. Now they just type a sentence. This is not the future of music. It’s an embarrassment. To be fair, so is most mainstream music. Is just even easier and cheaper to make it now. But no one wants to hear it. |
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Post by thehightenor on Oct 25, 2024 1:06:11 GMT -6
I've been impressed with Udio. Frankly it puts out better than music than a lot of the clients I've had over the years, not to be too much of a jerk. It doesn't really listen to the prompt if you don't give it a genre or some concrete category to anchor to but it still outputs something cool and arguably more differentiated than the average amateur. I don't know what else to say other than I liked it more than I expected to. It obviously has artifacts and strange decisionmaking around certain things, sure, but all of this is leverage for a truly creative multidisciplinary individual. Frankly, I'd trust this and other processes like it more than most people on Fiverr or coming out of Berklee, Julliard, etc. who often have skill but no taste.
Like, we view these things in terms of their technical skill and ability to mimic reality but really, it's all about vision and that will always come from truly singular minds using whatever tools they've got. And those minds have a lot now.
This is nonsense. It’s just a further decline of the art form into a non art form. It’s all just collage now. As if throwing some shitty loops into logic was too hard for people. Now they just type a sentence. This is not the future of music. It’s an embarrassment. To be fair, so is most mainstream music. Is just even easier and cheaper to make it now. But no one wants to hear it. And anyway, by definition it’s produces “Muzak” not music. Well not “music” by any definition I give it as an art form. Gosh, people are easily impressed by parlour toys (sophisticated as they may be) Generic drivel - there’s just one extra way to get there now. |
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Post by Oneiro on Oct 25, 2024 10:38:49 GMT -6
I've been impressed with Udio. Frankly it puts out better than music than a lot of the clients I've had over the years, not to be too much of a jerk. It doesn't really listen to the prompt if you don't give it a genre or some concrete category to anchor to but it still outputs something cool and arguably more differentiated than the average amateur. I don't know what else to say other than I liked it more than I expected to. It obviously has artifacts and strange decisionmaking around certain things, sure, but all of this is leverage for a truly creative multidisciplinary individual. Frankly, I'd trust this and other processes like it more than most people on Fiverr or coming out of Berklee, Julliard, etc. who often have skill but no taste.
Like, we view these things in terms of their technical skill and ability to mimic reality but really, it's all about vision and that will always come from truly singular minds using whatever tools they've got. And those minds have a lot now.
This is nonsense. It’s just a further decline of the art form into a non art form. It’s all just collage now. As if throwing some shitty loops into logic was too hard for people. Now they just type a sentence. This is not the future of music. It’s an embarrassment. To be fair, so is most mainstream music. Is just even easier and cheaper to make it now. But no one wants to hear it. Good luck with this mindset. The schools outputting all these musicians with no work prospects are far more machine like and deluded. And frankly, not quite unethical but something close to it.
And I used Udio to make things that have nothing to do with mainstream music right now - Trane/Tyner-esque jazz, Captain Beefheart sort of garage rock, Basinski-esque tape loops, etc. It did a good job - certainly good enough to flesh out a compelling demo. I'd argue that it has much better taste than most of the musicians working on sessions in the US.
Truly talented people always use these things to their advantage. But I love that most seem to feel the way you do.
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Post by damoongo on Oct 25, 2024 10:53:33 GMT -6
This is nonsense. It’s just a further decline of the art form into a non art form. It’s all just collage now. As if throwing some shitty loops into logic was too hard for people. Now they just type a sentence. This is not the future of music. It’s an embarrassment. To be fair, so is most mainstream music. Is just even easier and cheaper to make it now. But no one wants to hear it. Good luck with this mindset. The schools outputting all these musicians with no work prospects are far more machine like and deluded. And frankly, not quite unethical but something close to it.
And I used Udio to make things that have nothing to do with mainstream music right now - Trane/Tyner-esque jazz, Captain Beefheart sort of garage rock, Basinski-esque tape loops, etc. It did a good job - certainly good enough to flesh out a compelling demo. I'd argue that it has much better taste than most of the musicians working on sessions in the US.
Truly talented people always use these things to their advantage. But I love that most seem to feel the way you do.
Have fun with your derivative outputs. Trane, Tyner, and Van Vliet were true innovators. (Maybe you need to get around some more inspired players/collaborators/spaces?) These instantaneous, derivative offerings will not fill the void inside a true artist (or listener). Ai can also generate me some Picaso/Braque-esque cubism, but it does not make me an artist, and no one want's to look at it. The compelling part of good art comes from the connection to the creator. The effort they put in. The struggle. The mystique. The sacrifice. The conviction. The ability to communicate a feeling and touch the viewer/listener. |
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 25, 2024 11:08:21 GMT -6
This thread is vomit inducing
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Post by M57 on Oct 25, 2024 11:19:07 GMT -6
Vomit inducing. Hah! There will alway be people who prefer to eat at McDonald's, Burger King, Taco Bell, name-the-chain; and btw, that is possibly most people. The human/cook influence has been completely removed from the process so the food tastes exactly the same every time, and mind you, many of these consumers will prefer it over a professionally cooked gourmet meal (e.g. because it has brussels sprouts and one other ingredient they've never heard of). I guarantee that Big Mac will taste even better once an AI robot is cooking it!
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Post by drbill on Oct 25, 2024 13:52:38 GMT -6
For those of us who have had experience standing in the gap between "progress" (tech) and art, we pretty much know that it is futile. Musicians are the most lame people on the planet in terms of business strategy and organization. Hell, we can't even form an effective musicians union to stand up for our rights playing casuals - much less against the tech oligarchs. No...technology will move on. And it will change music forever. Much like the "recording arts" changed music forever, and the cell phone with internet access changed society forever.
Either get on board, or get left behind. The answer to that question probably depends a lot on how old you are.
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Post by chessparov on Oct 25, 2024 15:07:49 GMT -6
This is all why other than the occasional Vocal for a legit “real” Record…
I’m re-focusing on more Live Performance around Town.
This “Boomosaurus” is hungry for REALITY.
LOL!
Chris
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Post by damoongo on Oct 25, 2024 15:18:16 GMT -6
For those of us who have had experience standing in the gap between "progress" (tech) and art, we pretty much know that it is futile. Musicians are the most lame people on the planet in terms of business strategy and organization. Hell, we can't even form an effective musicians union to stand up for our rights playing casuals - much less against the tech oligarchs. No...technology will move on. And it will change music forever. Much like the "recording arts" changed music forever, and the cell phone with internet access changed society forever. Either get on board, or get left behind. The answer to that question probably depends a lot on how old you are. The fundamental difference here is that no previous tech has aimed to simply remove all the humans from the creation of music. People will not connect to music where no artist is involved. It's the whole point. Aside from the novelty of hearing deepfakes, which will wear off quickly, there's no one craving to consume ai generated music. They may be force fed it for a while, because it serves the interests of the corporate entities that control the "airwaves". It's cheaper for them to produce. But no one wants to hear it. They will just go and listen to back catalog of real artists, or seek out new real artists. |
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Post by lowlou on Oct 25, 2024 15:53:28 GMT -6
In short, fuck AI.
Johnken maybe you should ban AI topics.
Only cynical old money whores like Will.I.Am and Timbaland are endorsing the thing.
Meanwhile, 30 y-o me buys 60 y-o WSW 601432 comps for the fun of it.
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 25, 2024 16:40:07 GMT -6
Either get on board, or get left behind  |
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Post by chessparov on Oct 25, 2024 17:02:47 GMT -6
In short, fuck AI. Johnken maybe you should ban AI topics. Only cynical old money whore like Will.I.Am and Timbaland are endorsing the thing. Meanwhile, 30 y-o me buys 60 y-o WSW 601432 comps for the fun of it. Even U87. AI? The algorithmic Rapper said… “I’ll take the EXACT same thing!” Chris |
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Post by drbill on Oct 25, 2024 17:48:42 GMT -6
For those of us who have had experience standing in the gap between "progress" (tech) and art, we pretty much know that it is futile. Musicians are the most lame people on the planet in terms of business strategy and organization. Hell, we can't even form an effective musicians union to stand up for our rights playing casuals - much less against the tech oligarchs. No...technology will move on. And it will change music forever. Much like the "recording arts" changed music forever, and the cell phone with internet access changed society forever. Either get on board, or get left behind. The answer to that question probably depends a lot on how old you are. The fundamental difference here is that no previous tech has aimed to simply remove all the humans from the creation of music. People will not connect to music where no artist is involved. It's the whole point. Aside from the novelty of hearing deepfakes, which will wear off quickly, there's no one craving to consume ai generated music. They may be force fed it for a while, because it serves the interests of the corporate entities that control the "airwaves". It's cheaper for them to produce. But no one wants to hear it. They will just go and listen to back catalog of real artists, or seek out new real artists. You don't have to try and convince me. Other than the big fat royalty I mentioned above where they used a ton of my music and metadata to feed the bots to learn, I've got nothing good to say about AI music..... Well.....nothing other than it has grown exponentially better in even the last 6 months, and will continue to do so as we sit idly by and pine for the "old days". Meanwhile, 90% of the public will have no clue whether or not they are listening to AI music - so they will gladly consume, and relegate said "music" in their lives as "life-wallpaper". Just like they did for 20 years before AI cringed into the market. |
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Post by damoongo on Oct 25, 2024 22:12:18 GMT -6
The fundamental difference here is that no previous tech has aimed to simply remove all the humans from the creation of music. People will not connect to music where no artist is involved. It's the whole point. Aside from the novelty of hearing deepfakes, which will wear off quickly, there's no one craving to consume ai generated music. They may be force fed it for a while, because it serves the interests of the corporate entities that control the "airwaves". It's cheaper for them to produce. But no one wants to hear it. They will just go and listen to back catalog of real artists, or seek out new real artists. You don't have to try and convince me. Other than the big fat royalty I mentioned above where they used a ton of my music and metadata to feed the bots to learn, I've got nothing good to say about AI music..... Well.....nothing other than it has grown exponentially better in even the last 6 months, and will continue to do so as we sit idly by and pine for the "old days". Meanwhile, 90% of the public will have no clue whether or not they are listening to AI music - so they will gladly consume, and relegate said "music" in their lives as "life-wallpaper". Just like they did for 20 years before AI cringed into the market. LOL |
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