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Post by doubledog on Mar 29, 2024 13:07:36 GMT -6
So a buddy gave me a license for Synchro Arts VocAlign Project 5 www.synchroarts.com/products/vocalign-project-5/overview?sku=VAPJ5 and I've been happily using this for the last year, but the other day it needed to refresh iLok, and now today it shows it is expired (and this is exactly why I hate subscriptions). So yeah, apparently it was a 1 year "subscription" or trial that is now apparently expired. It was fun while it lasted. I actually found it useful sometimes (although sometimes it did product some weird results, and sometimes I had to undo and try it several times to get it to sound right). But when it worked, it worked, and saved time. Anyway, I see I can buy it for $99 right now (Sweetwater has it too) and it appears to be a full perpetual license. But before I consider if I really need this, has anyone else found anything cheaper/faster/better (I know, pick 2...). I've done some manual editing with Melodyne (assistant) before but it takes a lot more effort. I think if I upgrade to full Melodyne it might do something similar (and more) but right now they want $450 for that upgrade (no thanks). Maybe I already have something that will do it and just didn't know it (it happens...)? btw, I'm using Pro Tools (Studio, 2024.3) if it matters. |
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Post by Tbone81 on Mar 29, 2024 13:18:16 GMT -6
I’ve tried vocalign but never quite got along with it. It was always glitchy and had a tendency to cause really weird artifacts. In theory it was great but I got much better results manually editing everything. But that does take a much longer time.
I wonder how the newer versions work? Also interested if there’s any good alternatives. Melodyne doesn’t do auto alignment (that I aware of)…
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Post by doubledog on Mar 29, 2024 13:27:00 GMT -6
Melodyne doesn’t do auto alignment (that I aware of)… Studio has a feature "quantize to reference track" that can make one track follow another track. the demos didn't specifically use it for vocals though (they sync guitar and bass to a drum track) so maybe it doesn't work that way? But it's an expensive upgrade to get that feature |
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Post by thehightenor on Mar 29, 2024 13:28:53 GMT -6
What are these tools for?
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Post by nicksteinborn on Mar 29, 2024 13:35:31 GMT -6
I kinda love Vocalign Ultra. Maybe that's the laziness talking. I edit main tracks and then let Vocalign do its thing on doubles/harmonies and then manually edit anything that sounds too weird. It's saved some rough doubled guitar DIs for me too. Sometimes you gotta try different tuning/timing percentages and see what feels best for different parts. If you're working on something that's supposed to be pretty processed anyway.. it's killer IMO. Keeping it somewhat natural sounding requires a little more trial and error.
The Cubase alignment feature that got introduced a few versions ago is also pretty great. Years ago, I found a Reaper script that was meant to approximate Vocalign and it kinda worked. Maybe that's been refined since?
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Post by nicksteinborn on Mar 29, 2024 13:36:53 GMT -6
What are these tools for? Tightly lining up vocal doubles/harmonies with essentially a single click. Vocalign Ultra and Revoice also offer the option to match tuning. Big time saver for big vocal stacks that need some love. |
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Post by thehightenor on Mar 29, 2024 13:59:14 GMT -6
What are these tools for? Tightly lining up vocal doubles/harmonies with essentially a single click. Vocalign Ultra and Revoice also offer the option to match tuning. Big time saver for big vocal stacks that need some love. So it's for singers who can't accurately track their own voice. I guess there's autotune for singers who have trouble pitching, so why not software to fix timing issues as well. Fair enough. |
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Post by doubledog on Mar 29, 2024 14:15:14 GMT -6
yeah, some vocalists are really good at singing the exact same way every single time (and then these tools are not needed). Then there are some that could not sing the same way twice to save their life (and these tools are practically useless then too). And then there's everything in-between, which is most of it. IME Vocalign can quickly (in about 3 or 4 mouse clicks) tighten up vocal phrases.
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Post by tkaitkai on Mar 29, 2024 16:32:13 GMT -6
Nothing that I know of can touch Vocalign. Even editing by hand — I find that if I do that for an extended period of time, I fatigue really quickly and start lose objectivity. If you rely heavily on editing vocals like I do, it’s worth every penny.
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Post by thirdeye on Mar 29, 2024 18:35:01 GMT -6
My biggest issue with Vocalign is it glitches out sometimes. Super helpful tool though!
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Post by nicksteinborn on Mar 29, 2024 19:09:26 GMT -6
Tightly lining up vocal doubles/harmonies with essentially a single click. Vocalign Ultra and Revoice also offer the option to match tuning. Big time saver for big vocal stacks that need some love. So it's for singers who can't accurately track their own voice. I guess there's autotune for singers who have trouble pitching, so why not software to fix timing issues as well. Fair enough. I mean, I'll use it on myself in a second. I just can't get that worked up over pride in edited vs not edited. Maybe that's just from coming up in the comuter age? At the end of the day, I want to hear the intended vision of a song instead of nitpicking the "dishonesty" of small edits. Especially when dealing with artists that exist more in the hobbyist realm, their voices can't always hold up to do main takes let alone nailing doubles with the tightness a lot of modern stuff demands. If the vibe is good and I have some extra takes to comp from, Vocalign does a great job of taking it that last bit and keeping me from jabbing a nail into my eyes manually editing. Autotune is the same thing. Not everyone is a generational talent and what feels good in a live setting and would absolutely be a considered a great performance because of the energy doesn't always carry over to a recorded format. |
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Post by chessparov on Mar 29, 2024 23:59:59 GMT -6
Tightly lining up vocal doubles/harmonies with essentially a single click. Vocalign Ultra and Revoice also offer the option to match tuning. Big time saver for big vocal stacks that need some love. So it's for singers who can't accurately track their own voice. I guess there's autotune for singers who have trouble pitching, so why not software to fix timing issues as well. Fair enough. Does it work for Comic Timing too? |
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Post by thehightenor on Mar 30, 2024 3:27:12 GMT -6
So it's for singers who can't accurately track their own voice. I guess there's autotune for singers who have trouble pitching, so why not software to fix timing issues as well. Fair enough. I mean, I'll use it on myself in a second. I just can't get that worked up over pride in edited vs not edited. Maybe that's just from coming up in the comuter age? At the end of the day, I want to hear the intended vision of a song instead of nitpicking the "dishonesty" of small edits. Especially when dealing with artists that exist more in the hobbyist realm, their voices can't always hold up to do main takes let alone nailing doubles with the tightness a lot of modern stuff demands. If the vibe is good and I have some extra takes to comp from, Vocalign does a great job of taking it that last bit and keeping me from jabbing a nail into my eyes manually editing. Autotune is the same thing. Not everyone is a generational talent and what feels good in a live setting and would absolutely be a considered a great performance because of the energy doesn't always carry over to a recorded format. I’ve not used this type of software before. Can you vary how tightly it pulls the vocal into line? One of the arts of doubling vocals is sometimes you want a perfect double other times a deliberately looser double. Actually, mastering singing doubles spot on is a lot to do with monitoring, but it takes time to master and I understand what your saying, if you have someone in to record there’s no time at that moment for developing a skill that takes a long time to learn. It’s good for people to learn that skill though, same as pitching correctly, then less or no software correction will be needed which must be a good thing - who doesn’t like to go “au naturale”  |
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Post by mattbroiler on Mar 30, 2024 6:15:55 GMT -6
I can't compare to Vocalign because I don't have it but Melda MAutoAlign is decent and definitely costs less
I've only used it on drums therefore cannot say how well it would work as a vocal alignment tool
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Post by sean on Mar 30, 2024 6:38:09 GMT -6
Tightly lining up vocal doubles/harmonies with essentially a single click. Vocalign Ultra and Revoice also offer the option to match tuning. Big time saver for big vocal stacks that need some love. So it's for singers who can't accurately track their own voice. I guess there's autotune for singers who have trouble pitching, so why not software to fix timing issues as well. Fair enough. It’s also popular for post production where dialog is ADR and you need it to match the original audio so it line up with the picture. And when you get things to mix and the vocals aren’t as tight as I think they should be or the client ask if there’s anything I can do to help…it comes in handy in those situations |
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Post by frans on Mar 30, 2024 6:46:22 GMT -6
I can't compare to Vocalign because I don't have it but Melda MAutoAlign is decent and definitely costs less I've only used it on drums therefore cannot say how well it would work as a vocal alignment tool Isn't Melda AutoAlign used for bringing two tracks into phase with each other? |
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Post by doubledog on Mar 30, 2024 9:25:38 GMT -6
Can you vary how tightly it pulls the vocal into line? Yes, absolutely you can adjust how tightly it aligns them. I usually never went over 80%, and most of the times it was less. That usually worked pretty well, although as I said, sometimes it would still get a little glitchy and would take a few attempts to get it to sound right without getting artifacts. Sometimes just moving any of the knobs a tiny bit would make it work better. I am certainly no expert at using it, but that was kind of the point. it was pretty easy to use. I'll probably buy the license again if they are the only game in town. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 30, 2024 9:29:17 GMT -6
Tightly lining up vocal doubles/harmonies with essentially a single click. Vocalign Ultra and Revoice also offer the option to match tuning. Big time saver for big vocal stacks that need some love. So it's for singers who can't accurately track their own voice. I guess there's autotune for singers who have trouble pitching, so why not software to fix timing issues as well. Fair enough. I know you're joking, but it always makes me laugh to see people mock these tools. I'd much rather hear someone sing in tune rather than listen to them out of tune and then have to pretend like it's good. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 30, 2024 9:30:12 GMT -6
Can you vary how tightly it pulls the vocal into line? Yes, absolutely you can adjust how tightly it aligns them. I usually never went over 80%, and most of the times it was less. That usually worked pretty well, although as I said, sometimes it would still get a little glitchy and would take a few attempts to get it to sound right without getting artifacts. Sometimes just moving any of the knobs a tiny bit would make it work better. I am certainly no expert at using it, but that was kind of the point. it was pretty easy to use. I'll probably buy the license again if they are the only game in town. It's an incredible time saver. |
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Post by thehightenor on Mar 30, 2024 11:02:00 GMT -6
So it's for singers who can't accurately track their own voice. I guess there's autotune for singers who have trouble pitching, so why not software to fix timing issues as well. Fair enough. I know you're joking, but it always makes me laugh to see people mock these tools. I'd much rather hear someone sing in tool rather than listen to them out of tune and then have to pretend like it's good. I’m not knocking it. I use Melodyne on people who can’t pitch very accurately - it’s tedious work but I do it. It’s just a trend I’ve noticed amongst some young singers - "oh I’m not going to worry too much" - the engineer will fix it. When I was up and coming you sang in tune and in time or frankly you wouldn’t find yourself in a recording situation. |
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Post by doubledog on Mar 30, 2024 12:34:10 GMT -6
Found that Thomann had it (Vocalign Project 5) for $71 (vs $99 everywhere else). no tax, no shipping (download only) so seemed like a no-brainer and I got it again. Still cost more than my usual $29 plugin purchases but I know I'll use it.
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Post by winterland on Mar 30, 2024 14:43:02 GMT -6
Haven't found anything that works better than Vocalign. Price is reasonable also.
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Post by thehightenor on Mar 31, 2024 1:39:01 GMT -6
I’ve discovered Cubase has a vocal alignment plugin built into the app - I must of missed the memo!
It seems to work very well.
Way quicker to use than Melodyne.
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Post by mike on Mar 31, 2024 18:17:35 GMT -6
I see the sale ends today, .... at Thoman. On sale the Vocalign project 5 is $71 ... and the Vocalign Ultra is $208 ..
are the extra features in Ultra worth the price difference?
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Post by mcirish on Mar 31, 2024 18:47:14 GMT -6
I’ve discovered Cubase has a vocal alignment plugin built into the app - I must of missed the memo! It seems to work very well. Way quicker to use than Melodyne. Yep. I use it in Nuendo. Steinberg integrated a lot of great tools. I'm very fast at it and can make vocals match quickly without artifacts. If I have time, I use audio warp and do it by hand. |
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