|
|
Post by skav on Feb 26, 2024 3:57:14 GMT -6
First a little context:
I have a U87 Ai which I like very much. Everything else is dynamic mics.
Therefore, I've been thinking of getting a second fet condenser mic. Why fet condenser? Convenience, less to think about, less planning etc.
I prefer simplicity. Just a couple of mics that I can trust. As a musician myself, it quickly becomes a burden with many options. I record mostly acoustic material nowadays.
My thought progression so far:
1. Originally I were thinking of getting a single mic to be the U87 polar opposite.
2. I then realised I don't have a capable pair for stereo recording.
3. Then it dawned on me that I could just get another U87 for that purpose. These things are not cheap though.
Route alternatives:
1. Get a second U87 to form a pair
2. Get a stereo pair of an alternative type of microphone. U87 stays on mono duty.
3. Get a single alternative type of microphone, record stereo with two different microphones (U87 + x) I've been thinking of a c414, oc818, tlm 107 or another Neumann mic to somewhat match the spirit of the U87.
As I like the U87 very much, I am leaning towards alternative 1 at the moment.
It is sonically easily sculptable. What I sometimes don't like is the saturation, but that's ofcourse a plus in many occasions.
I prefer not getting clone(s).
Which route would you go? Maybe you use another workhorse mic?
Any thoughts appreciated!
|
|
|
|
Post by bricejchandler on Feb 26, 2024 4:42:55 GMT -6
I'm curious, why do you want an LDC?
I record almost exclusively acoustic music and my most used mics are Sdcs. You can get a pair of Fet Soyuz for half the price of an 87ai and you open up a ton of of stereo recording possibilities, space pair with mono room, MS.
If you like the modern Neumann sound, the KM184s might rock your boat.
|
|
|
|
Post by andersmv on Feb 26, 2024 7:01:49 GMT -6
Have you considered getting a single body stereo mic? It sounds like you want an easy/convenient option, in that case Vanguard V44s all the way.
|
|
|
|
Post by jaba on Feb 26, 2024 7:17:06 GMT -6
My vote is option 2.
U87 is a great all-arounder mono option.
A separate pair would give you a pair, plus you can still do the un-matched option pair if you like (I actually do this quite a bit). In certain genres I'm less picky about a matched pair (say, from drum OHs) and like what an unmatched pair gives me.
But as others have pointed out, does it have to be LDCs over SDCs? A stereo mic would be super convenient but does limit how many things you can mic up at the same time.
|
|
|
|
Post by ninworks on Feb 26, 2024 7:36:05 GMT -6
I really like my stereo pair of KM184s. They have a pretty pronounced bump at 10k but a good low-pass filter can deal with that if needed. I also have other stereo SDCs without that bump if needed. IMO everyone should have a pair of ribbons of some sort. They are so useful in so many situations.
|
|
|
|
Post by phdamage on Feb 26, 2024 9:21:04 GMT -6
if you need/want a stereo pair of LDCs, I would push you for the Serrano 87s all the way. should be a bit darker than you 87ai. Admittedly, i'm unfamiliar with their FET offerings, but Beesneez make some killer mics and their FETs are pretty damn affordable, though no frills - cardioid only, no pad, etc. or how about some ribbons? I"m thinking that 87ai is pretty bright and maybe a darker mic would be a nice contrast/option to have.
|
|
|
|
Post by gravesnumber9 on Feb 26, 2024 10:31:48 GMT -6
I would echo the "stereo condenser" vote. If what you want is simplicity and you've been doing fine so far with your collection, that's as simple as it gets.
I've never heard the Vanguard but it gets lots of love. I would suggest checking out Lewitt's 640TS. It's a stereo condensor with dual input allowing you to change polarity later... though you could also just ignore that and keep it in stereo. The Lewitt's are very "honest" mics and if you like the U87 you would probably appreciate Lewitt's clear and clean style.
And if you wanted to look at ribbons, the Royer SF-24 is around the same cost as the U87 so that's in your range as well.
But as a musician who self-records about 50% of the time, I often wish I had invested in a good stereo mic earlier before I had kind of tapped out my $1k+ mic locker. Nothing could be simpler.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dan on Feb 26, 2024 12:45:39 GMT -6
I'm curious, why do you want an LDC? I record almost exclusively acoustic music and my most used mics are Sdcs. You can get a pair of Fet Soyuz for half the price of an 87ai and you open up a ton of of stereo recording possibilities, space pair with mono room, MS. If you like the modern Neumann sound, the KM184s might rock your boat. i second this. Sdcs are generally less colored than Neumann type ldc and have better more even pickup pattern. Lcd pair, I prefer akg style but can be bright so just use a shelf |
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Feb 26, 2024 13:07:19 GMT -6
if you need/want a stereo pair of LDCs, I would push you for the Serrano 87s all the way. should be a bit darker than you 87ai. Admittedly, i'm unfamiliar with their FET offerings, but Beesneez make some killer mics and their FETs are pretty damn affordable, though no frills - cardioid only, no pad, etc. or how about some ribbons? I"m thinking that 87ai is pretty bright and maybe a darker mic would be a nice contrast/option to have. PH, although IMHO Serrano (and UT) also make fine 87 Style mics... Ben recently came out with a Multi-Pattern 87 Style.  BTW just a singer here, so the single Pattern Elly (47 FET style w/Transformer) works even better, than the U87ai on me. Punch-ier too! Although my lean would be the slightly more Open toned BU67 for General use/Ballads. Chris P.S. IIRC Carlos' present default on the current Serrano 87's is towards Vintage. (As Ben's originally was and is) |
|
|
|
Post by christopher on Feb 26, 2024 13:18:28 GMT -6
Neumann costs a lot, and you have that sound.
You can go 2x Serrano, and 2x KM 184 and you’d still have change left over.
But I totally get it if you are super happy with 87ai
|
|
|
|
Post by antipodesjosh on Feb 27, 2024 3:49:45 GMT -6
Vanguard are about to release the second generation of their V1 Stereo set which could also be a good SDC option. It optionally comes with their Lolli LDC caps too, so you have both flavours available.
I have a pair of Austrian Audio CC8s, which are decent SDCs and very affordable, could pick up another LDC and still be well under Neumann prices.
|
|
|
|
Post by nnajar on Feb 27, 2024 11:12:21 GMT -6
If I were you I’d either get a second U87 or a pair of tlm107s. The 107s can be found used around $1k US.
|
|
|
|
Post by aremos on Feb 27, 2024 15:35:16 GMT -6
Get 2x Schoeps (cmc6 with a mk4 cap) & you're done! Not LDC but can't get better stereo (all purpose), or pair, than that - for the price of 1x 87.
|
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Feb 27, 2024 15:46:48 GMT -6
If I were you I’d either get a second U87 or a pair of tlm107s. The 107s can be found used around $1k US. My jury's out on the 107. It sounds quite "different" up Top... Compared to the OG Neumann classics. Chris |
|
|
|
Post by enlav on Feb 27, 2024 17:42:23 GMT -6
Vanguard are about to release the second generation of their V1 Stereo set which could also be a good SDC option. It optionally comes with their Lolli LDC caps too, so you have both flavours available. I have a pair of Austrian Audio CC8s, which are decent SDCs and very affordable, could pick up another LDC and still be well under Neumann prices. Any word on if the gen2 will still have the lolli capsules? Only questioning it because I was trying to grab a pair at some point within the last year or two and couldn't find many, if any around. |
|
|
|
Post by skav on Mar 6, 2024 15:15:10 GMT -6
Update: did a 180! Sold my U87 Ai. Now in the process of testing TLM 103 and TLM 107. Might both be keepers. So far I'm liking both, sonically. Low mids arent as forceful as the U87 (a plus for me). The TLM 103 is more like I wish my U87 Ai was. To use where one wants something to pop, but not as artificial sounding as the U87 Ai. The TLM 107 has a neumann tone but with more neutral character and flexibility of a C414. An allrounder that I think can be used on anything. This is after a couple of days of testing mainly on voice & some acoustic guitar. Will report back if I change my mind  |
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Mar 6, 2024 16:49:53 GMT -6
Also Beesneez/Serrano/UT 87's are more like I'd want a 87ai to sound. Vintage (and Olde Guyz) rule. Chris |
|
|
|
Post by enlav on Mar 6, 2024 17:16:45 GMT -6
The TLM 103 is more like I wish my U87 Ai was. To use where one wants something to pop, but not as artificial sounding as the U87 Ai. Not second guessing you, but can you describe what it was about the 87ai? I ask because I similarly have a slight distaste for the AI at times that I personally have trouble describing. Not always present, but seems to come out with vocalists that have naturally projecting or cutting vocals. |
|
|
|
Post by skav on Mar 6, 2024 22:31:38 GMT -6
The TLM 103 is more like I wish my U87 Ai was. To use where one wants something to pop, but not as artificial sounding as the U87 Ai. Not second guessing you, but can you describe what it was about the 87ai? I ask because I similarly have a slight distaste for the AI at times that I personally have trouble describing. Not always present, but seems to come out with vocalists that have naturally projecting or cutting vocals. That's how I hear it. It can be too much on sources which already have enough information especially in the low mids, aswell as cut in the hi mids, is that what you're thinking of? I hear U87 as naturally imposing, demanding it's place in the mix. With that said, the mic is very sculptable with EQ. |
|
|
|
Post by vanguardaudiolabs on Apr 2, 2024 10:30:32 GMT -6
Vanguard are about to release the second generation of their V1 Stereo set which could also be a good SDC option. It optionally comes with their Lolli LDC caps too, so you have both flavours available. I have a pair of Austrian Audio CC8s, which are decent SDCs and very affordable, could pick up another LDC and still be well under Neumann prices. Any word on if the gen2 will still have the lolli capsules? Only questioning it because I was trying to grab a pair at some point within the last year or two and couldn't find many, if any around. Yes, they will. LOLLI is a separate thing - the metalwork is entirely different and part of our thing is that we have multiple suppliers for various and sundry parts. The LOLLIs are going to be fully assembled in our CA workshop, whereas with the V1s we are getting the PCBs made locally instead of stuffing them ourselves. I'm hoping the LOLLIs will arrive at the same time as the V1s, but coordinating all that has never been my strong suit. The other thing to note is that i'm currently doing a few things to try to make figure-8 an option on the LOLLI. it's a tricky bit of business but i'm hoping i can accomplish it. I have all the parts here on the bench, i just need to find the time to test it later this week. Given Ken's passing, i've had a bit more on my plate and my mind, which is usually overfull as it is! -DEREK |
|
|
|
Post by enlav on Apr 3, 2024 10:50:11 GMT -6
Yes, they will. LOLLI is a separate thing - the metalwork is entirely different and part of our thing is that we have multiple suppliers for various and sundry parts. The LOLLIs are going to be fully assembled in our CA workshop, whereas with the V1s we are getting the PCBs made locally instead of stuffing them ourselves. I'm hoping the LOLLIs will arrive at the same time as the V1s, but coordinating all that has never been my strong suit. The other thing to note is that i'm currently doing a few things to try to make figure-8 an option on the LOLLI. it's a tricky bit of business but i'm hoping i can accomplish it. I have all the parts here on the bench, i just need to find the time to test it later this week. Given Ken's passing, i've had a bit more on my plate and my mind, which is usually overfull as it is! -DEREK Had not heard of Ken's passing. My condolences to you, team and family. |
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Apr 3, 2024 14:15:55 GMT -6
Same. Sorry to hear.
Chris
|
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Apr 6, 2024 11:39:37 GMT -6
Someone fix the title please. I thought it was going to be a thread about Liquid Crystal Displays
|
|
